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Why the US Navy will be destroyed in Hormuz

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posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 12:48 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

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posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 12:48 AM
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reply to post by tpg65
 


Another example of ignorance. I think you may want to research the criteria for enlisting in our armed forces. Good luck finding a "junkie" or someone on steroids.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 12:49 AM
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That's enough...

Back on topic, sans personal attacks and ill mannered barbs...

Any further transgressions will result in a post ban...

Thanks, and have a Happy New Years...




posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 12:51 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 12:51 AM
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reply to post by tpg65
 


He owned you in that post and now you're using deflection to try to turn it back around.

You keep saying "you" as if the American population are the ones running the trading or money system, or that we're the ones choosing what we spend our taxes on.

Wanna hate on our government? Go right ahead, join the club. You have no reason to hate on our citizens who are ordinary humans like you.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 02:29 AM
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reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL
 
I remember a NATO exercise scenario where the "Soviets" would invade Europe thru the German plains. Of course the NATO forces were supposed to win. But the "Soviet" tank force commander used German blitzkrieg concepts and overran the NATO forces, He was finally ordered to stop and wait so that the NATO forces could catch up and defeat him.

A former USAF Intel officer



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 02:48 AM
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Originally posted by Lil Drummerboy

Originally posted by FoosM

Originally posted by Alien Abduct



The UN security counsel has found Iran in non compliance with their treaties and has brought forth evidence for these claims for every UN country to view.

Apparently most countries agreed with the evidence in a vote and so sanctions were imposed as per agreements made with Iran.(and this is not the first time) In fact they have been habitually in violation.

The United States is not making these decisions to sanction Iran all by its self.


-Alien


And that report was BS.
And so what?
Iran has the right to have nukes if they can build them.
Every sovereign nation has that right.
So,, please help me understand your thinking
lets say we have a child bent on hurting the neighborhood animals
and doesnt understand right and wrong in the normal thinking process.
You would feel comfortable leaving this child with your pet or a sibling for that matter?


Are you referring to the US?
They have nukes already.
As a matter of fact, they have all kinds of exotic weaponry and spy agencies.

And this is why, unfortunately, any smart nation with resources that the US wants to covet,
should look into a VERY good defense. Nukes are a start.

Watch this documentary about the CIA:




posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 02:49 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 03:03 AM
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Originally posted by Recce1
reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL
 
I remember a NATO exercise scenario where the "Soviets" would invade Europe thru the German plains. Of course the NATO forces were supposed to win. But the "Soviet" tank force commander used German blitzkrieg concepts and overran the NATO forces, He was finally ordered to stop and wait so that the NATO forces could catch up and defeat him.

A former USAF Intel officer



I can believe this; Russia has the capability to run over Europe as it stands and It would appear there is always a magic number and when it is reached you can overwhelm any adversary. No doubt in my mind that Iran is being advised by a certain super power to this.

Smart on their part, can't really blame anyone for doing what they can to protect themselves, whether they are right or wrong.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 05:38 AM
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Originally posted by apodictic
reply to post by bigyin
 


Right, drag, but more power compensates.


This is the last thing I'm going to say about this. Naval architecture is a complicated science, but there is a theoretical maximum speed through water for any hull shape. The speed cannot be overcome with additional power. There is no single formulae, there are a number of factors.

Very fast boats are not in the water but plane above it, so a speedboat for example starts off in the water but as the speed increases the hull shape forces the hull up and out of the water and it basically then is flying through the air rather than the water.

Multi hulls such as catamarans and trimarans do something similar in that there is less hull in the water for the size of the boat.

So when I see a carrier aqua planing then I will agree it can do 70mph.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 05:43 AM
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Am I right in saying that the last time the US Navy carried out a military operation in this area they 'accidentally' shot down a passenger airline killing all on board. info

Some say Lockerbie was the response to this act.

I belive the captain responsible, instead of being shot through the head, was given a medal and a promotion.

Strange world.

I found THIS while looking up the story. I think it says a lot.
edit on 2-1-2012 by bigyin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 07:52 AM
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Originally posted by Camperguy

Originally posted by Cosmic4life
reply to post by Camperguy
 


The Nimitz and Ford class Carriers are just as vulnerable as any other ship.

They are made of steel, you can believe they can take everything up to a nuke strike if you like, physics says otherwise.

If jet fuel can destroy the columns of the twin towers, just imagine what a thermate warhead will do to a steel ship.

Cosmic..
edit on 31-12-2011 by Cosmic4life because: (no reason given)



The U.S. Navy has stated that the carriers could withstand three times the damage sustained by the Essex class inflicted by Japanese air attacks during World War II


I thought thermite was used in the twin towers destruction.


Well indeed, i myself do not believe jet fuel collapsed the towers, i was attempting to be ironic.

The point i failed to make is that thermite/thermate will dissolve steel and keep reacting until it has no steel left to fuel the reaction.

The Titanic was unsinkable, The Bismark and the Turpitz were unsinkable, they are all laying at the bottom of the ocean as a testimony to hubris.

In this thread i am merely putting myself in the position of Iran,some-one has to be Red in War strategy, that's what i do, if faced with a large and powerful force how would i attempt to cripple or destroy those forces pitted against me in my own backyard.

I would attempt to overwhelm with multiple missiles and torpedoes, armor piercing shells and thermate and Phosphorous, pretty much every thing i could throw.

I would also plan asymmetrically, mines all over the Strait, pipelines in the Gulf and the Arabian peninsular would be targets for special ops, State officials would become targets for assassinations.

By the time i was finished doing what i do, there would no flowing oil in the entire region, a lot of flames and dead bodies, all expats in the region would be targets for my insurgents.

I would be Satan himself when it comes to protecting my Country, make no bones about it and i'm pretty sure when push comes to shove the Iranians will be the same.

To clarify my position for all readers, i am neither an American Hater nor an Iran Hater, the thing that winds me up is boastful hubris and bullying attitudes, again i am reminded of the Luftwaffe in WW2 thinking they could destroy the RAF or the Waffen SS in the Eastern front thinking they could just stroll across Russia, the reality never matches the optimism.

People who are defending their country will fight with great tenacity and they will not give up.
Iraq was only easy because nobody liked Saddam Hussein and most Iraqi's welcomed the US with open arms, but when it started to look like the US would be there for-ever they began an asymmetric campaign to demoralize what was in their eyes an occupation.

Iran is not Iraq and should never be brushed off as being a pushover, if that was the case it would've been done in sync with Iraq/Afghanistan.

Cosmic..



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 08:43 AM
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Originally posted by Cosmic4life
The Titanic was unsinkable, The Bismark and the Turpitz were unsinkable, they are all laying at the bottom of the ocean as a testimony to hubris.


Just to clarify, the Titanic was a deeply flawed design and human error, or more correctly omission of action, contributed greatly to its demise. The Bismarck resisted the attempts of what was, at the time, the most powerful surface fleet in the world to sink her before her Captain finally scuttled her after safely putting her compliment ashore. The Tirpitz survived midget submarine attacks before finally succumbing to two direct hits from massive 12000lb bombs dropped from the air. The loss of life in all cases was horrific.

I would agree that anybody believing in the myth of unsinkable ships is misguided, but I would put forward that the cost in human lives involved in sinking a capital ship is sufficiently unacceptable as to surely make anybody very wary of attempting such a venture.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 08:49 AM
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reply to post by roguedesigner
 


that's the Graf Spee that you're thinking of, not the Bizmark... Just sayin'...

The Graf Spee was scuttled on the River Platte (sp?) when cornered by three Royal Navy cruisers, and after a inconclusive engagement. The Bizmark was pounded into submission by Home Fleet units, that included Repulse, Rodney, and Prince of Wales...she was finally given the coup de grace by Dorsetshire with torpedoes.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by roguedesigner
 


that's the Graf Spee that you're thinking of, not the Bizmark... Just sayin'...

The Graf Spee was scuttled on the River Platte (sp?) when cornered by three Royal Navy cruisers, and after a inconclusive engagement. The Bizmark was pounded into submission by Home Fleet units, that included Repulse, Rodney, and Prince of Wales...she was finally given the coup de grace by Dorsetshire with torpedoes.


Yes, my bad. The point remains that she was engaged by 17 surface ships and numerous aircraft before finally being sunk.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 09:06 AM
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reply to post by roguedesigner
 


Indeed, and your point was indeed valid. I'm just feeling a bit contrarian this morning. Sorry.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 10:05 AM
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I agree that everyone has a right to self defense and right to life.
I also agree that Iran is not Iraq. Iraq was the 4th largest army in the world
before Desert Storm. Hey if Iran can some how drop a couple of 10k
Thermite th3s on us good for them. Personally there is no reason for us
to be in the middle east. We have the means to be energy independent
and as far as I'm concerned we should pull the hell out and let them all duke it
out. I'm sick of war I'm sick of our government starting a war with anyone that
has a different opinion than them including our freedoms. We at least can vote
the asswipes out . Back to the subject there's no way Iran could take out one of our
Navel battle groups, a few ships disabled maybe. Can you imagine if the human
race got together and spent all that money on helping each other than trying to find
better ways to kill each other? I guess it's just in our nature or there's no Profit in peace



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 10:25 AM
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reply to post by Cosmic4life
 


Your statement "I would attempt to overwhelm with multiple missiles and torpedoes, armor piercing shells and thermate and Phosphorous, pretty much every thing i could throw" is not realistic. Realize that to do such, one must have a way of delivering the weaponry. You may cross "armor piercing shells and thermate" off your list immediately. There are no platforms that can get close enough to shoot and thermate is not in projectile that I know of. Missiles and torpedoes are possibilities but if the launch platforms are surface vessels, it is unlikely they would survive long enough to do much launching. Land based missile platforms and submarines are more dangerous threats. The shallow waters of the gulf are an asset and a hindrance to submarine operations. I would bet on the ASW capabilities of the carrier group to find and destroy any submarines. These assets would include fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft, surface ships, and submarines.
The real threat would be mobile, land based missile launchers. These would be dangerous and I expect that before any fleet came through a defended strait, active search and destroy tactics would be employed. Any targeting radars would have to be turned on shortly before launch and even this would attract unwanted attention. After launch, the missiles would be subjected to considerable jamming and then would have to survive several layers of close-in defense systems.
In any case, do not expect the US to do anything drastic given the present situation. Iran is playing to an audience and will say and do many things over the next few months that are basically just establishing a political position. It is business as usual on the international stage and Iran is just a new player with a bit part wanting to get better billing in the local theater.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 10:30 AM
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Originally posted by Camperguy
I agree that everyone has a right to self defense and right to life.
I also agree that Iran is not Iraq. Iraq was the 4th largest army in the world
before Desert Storm. Hey if Iran can some how drop a couple of 10k
Thermite th3s on us good for them. Personally there is no reason for us
to be in the middle east. We have the means to be energy independent
and as far as I'm concerned we should pull the hell out and let them all duke it
out. I'm sick of war I'm sick of our government starting a war with anyone that
has a different opinion than them including our freedoms. We at least can vote
the asswipes out . Back to the subject there's no way Iran could take out one of our
Navel battle groups, a few ships disabled maybe. Can you imagine if the human
race got together and spent all that money on helping each other than trying to find
better ways to kill each other? I guess it's just in our nature or there's no Profit in peace


We agree on many things...

...personally i hope Diplomacy wins over Militarism, we really need the intelligent people on this planet to regain control over our direction.

Space is where i would rather be..see my signature...the money wasted on war machines could've built several Lunar shipyards by now and we would be orbiting Mars in very large self sustaining vessels.

Sadly we are led by short-sighted knaves and fools whose only interest is in short to medium term gains taken by hook or by crook.

But..i do not believe this status-quo will last much longer, the power of the internet and the new peoples media of camera phones is eroding the control of the few over the many.

Back to the subject of the thread..something we still dis-agree on...

..i am still of the opinion that a single carrier group would be destroyed or rendered useless, i believe the strategists are also of that opinion, it is a deliberate ploy to be used as a vehicle for a larger engagement, sacrifice Pawn to release Knight and Bishop.

Cosmic..



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by pteridine
 


The Strait of Hormuz is only 35 miles wide at the bottle-neck, that's the only area Iran need concentrate on.

I have no doubt Iran has laid a substantial sensor array on the sea-bed of that particular area.

Additionally, land based Artillery, both Rocket and Shell type are easily capable of making a traverse of the Strait very uncomfortable indeed.

Thermate/Thermite Artillery rounds exist and have done so since it was formulated.

Iran has it's own Military/Industrial complex, they build their own Radar, Electronics, Tanks, Helicopters, Aircraft, Missiles, Stealth UCAVS, Submarines etc as well as limited import of Russian and Chinese products, they are very much a first world industrial nation, superior to all of their neighbors in their industrial capacity.

They may not match the US by any stretch of the imagination but they do have the advantage of playing in their home stadium.

Lastly i would comment that the first suicide bomber of middle-eastern origin was a 12 yr old Iranian boy who carried a backpack of explosives to an Iraqi tank, no amount of technology is going to pass by un-affected by such courage and determination.

Cosmic..



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