It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Why the US Navy will be destroyed in Hormuz

page: 14
58
<< 11  12  13    15  16  17 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by BRAVO949
Every (most, many, quite a few - at least) teenage boy thinks he discovered sex.

Every (most, many, quite a few - at least) young soldier thinks his army is different, his war is new, his country is not like the countries others read about in history.

Smart old soldiers know that is not true. They know war is war and the tools are different but human flesh is the same as it was three million years ago when the first man ape hit the second man ape in the head with a rock.

The day "they" decided US troops should fight in Korea after WWII they did not, and I am talking about the politicians, young soldiers and even some old soldiers, think that there would be...

36,940 US dead
92,134 US wounded
3,737 US MIA
4,439 US POW

At the end.

Wiki - Korean War

Were the "serving" their country? No!
Did they win anything? No!
Was it worth even a skinned knee? No?

If you are not old enough to know anything about the Korean war and how badly the strategists were at figuring out what was going to happen then you better read about it before you sign-up or worse sign-on someone else to fire even a singel shot near Iran.

I am not saying Iran can defeat the US Navy or that Iran would not come out way worse but Korea was supposed to be a cake walk and it was until the other side (including China decided to actually fight) then it was not. Vietnam was a disaster and so is / was Iraq.

I have to remind you - just like the illegal invasion of Iraq - it is Israel that wants this war and the Israel lobby is conning the American public into it.




Now this ladies and gentlemen is intelligence.. Get a good wiff of it because outta endless pages of nonsense and egotistical keyboard thumping someone feels pity and interjects inteligence.




edit on 31-12-2011 by Bicent76 because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by OptimusSubprime
 


You obviously missed my first post in this thread. They already tried your scenario and lost the entire battle group. They tried everything you said and still lost.

Are you saying that you tried this war game scenario where you were the commander and you won? Please provide evidence that your scenario worked. Otherwise you just failed.
edit on 31-12-2011 by THE_PROFESSIONAL because: (no reason given)


When presented with an unwinnable scenario the answer is to just change the scenario. Have we learned nothing from the Kobayashi Maru??



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:23 PM
link   

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
It's for their own good and the Iranian people will thank us for the regime change.
The world will be a safer place.

Sure...ask any Iraqi their opinion on the service provided by the Americans. I've been following this thread with a great deal of interest and it seems to be a battle between the pragmatists and the chest-thumping Keyboard Kommandos (with Action Avatars!).

Who the hell wants war with Iran in the first place? By threatening the Straits, they are playing a card that demands attention. Go figure...

The US won't win in the Stans. Leaving Iraq does not equate victory...let's just wait until Saddam's successor emerges and see if he, indeed, is any better. All this static is about the money made by multinationals in breaking stuff and patching it back together...with a soupcon of oil theft added for zest.

And to call it treasonous to express real concern about the military's ability to win? Maybe that's what passes for treason in the middle east.

Let's get real...



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:24 PM
link   

Originally posted by OrphenFire
reply to post by OrphenFire
 


Here's an example of a CIWS in action.



Yeah...
edit on 12/31/2011 by OrphenFire because: (no reason given)


The CIWS is obsolete.
The russians have a ramjet antiship missile that goes faster than Mach 2 !

The range of the CIWS is too limited.

Raytheon is switching to lazers.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:24 PM
link   
Having suffered through twelve useless pages of this circular argument, i feel suddenly qualified to comment on US Naval power, in a head on conflict with Irans forces.....
Our friend the Professional is sounding a warnng that would be better heeded than not....
regardless of service time, you pro navy boys have to admit that the straights leave precious little room for manouver if an entire fleet of the carrier group tries to do an end run and gets attacked.
This close quarters type of engagement will not leave the battle group sufficient time to deal with a swarm of land based anti ship weapons.
At roughly 2000 mph, a missle would take about 2000 gozinta 34 =.017 hrs to reach the ships on average...(halfways across say.....)an hour is 60x60=3600 seconds......

One one thousandth of an hour is 36 seconds so the missle would be in flight something like forty five seconds max.......
Say one minute after launch......it would be on target......
The quantity of missles available is not known to us, but i assume the navy has some idea......
At least i hope so......
There is the possibility of a submersible missle being dragged underwater by a seemingly innocent fishing scow which apears to be dragging nets maybe....
Also there is the new SHVAAL sic missle which the russians have provided iran with as well....
this is really a hybrid torpedo cum missile that is supersonic underwater i believ.e...
ten of these launched at the limit of their operating ranges by speedboats or light attack craft that still are not close enough to the fleet to be considered hostile, would be a complete turnover if they have no countermeasures for them....(i dont believe the navy has anything to counter these new concept torpedo / missiles....
Say the tow fifty of these under water with a fleet of scattered fishing vessels.....
The Prof, has his reasonable concerns and the nay sayers have not really presented much but braggadocio to counter his proposition.
Other concerns...
The US airforce being drawn off to defend ground attackes that will be launched simultaneously with the missles....
There are also many missiles able to reach the numerous military bases in Iraq, and other mid east countries...
Asymetric warfare is a concept well understood by the boys who invented the game of chess.....Iran....
Do NOT think any military action will be a cake walk....
There will be coffins aplenty comming home on both sides.
These flying speedboats may not be stealthy in the strictest sense, but flying at sea level in great numbers, and armed with missiles or mines, they will be more than a mere niussance
The idea of an hundred exocetes or more could be brought down without some making contact is one i have many sincere doubts about....
Just one set the aluminium frigates hull and superstructure burning like a magnesium torch....(the Sheffield)
The iranians have the jets to launch these weapons from standoff positions, and they con shoot and scoot faster than air caps can react if they merely take off and launch from within Iran.....
Surprise also may be the key factor....
reaction timing is crutial if you must wait toi have the firing of the first shot come from your enemy....
If it is varied and massive enough, the attack has a good chance of sinking some of the fleet...guaranteed....
The Iranians would not send their line ships anywhere near such a foght...they would have to be hunted down and destroyed one by one....
the worry is the smaller stuff in large quantities, and the missiles which the iranians have been working on for decades now,as well as buying and improvong silkworms and such......
Iran is NO pushover.....anyone who thinks so needs to reassess their capabilities and the navys....
\i do think that the full shock and awe which the combined might of US arms can produce will definately hurt and cripple Iran however, it will cost in blood and casualties and more misery for the world.
The waste of so much resources will be the cause of many seemingly unrelated deaths from all kinds of situations which will be badly neglected should war develope in the straights....
People who know nothing of the whole scenario will starve and die because of the disruptions it will cause.....



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:26 PM
link   
reply to post by Eurisko2012
 


FIAR LAZERS?

I hope so.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:27 PM
link   
reply to post by murch
 
They've laid mines in the Persian Gulf before, they may do it again.

I was attached to an ocean minesweeper (MSO 456 USS Inflict) and a ship that can haul one inside of it ('___' 29 USS Plymouth Rock). MSO's were used in clearing Iranian mines before and they may need to be used again.

There other methods of dealing with the mines too.

We might not let them finish the job when we see them start doing it.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:29 PM
link   
reply to post by stirling
 


I don't think the U.S. fleet would just sit in the straight and be like Gandalf "YOU SHALL NOT PASS IRANIANS!"... They can project power hundreds of miles away, which would either be inside the gulf or outside of the straight.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:33 PM
link   
 


off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:34 PM
link   
Who cares about their speedboats?

Iran has Chinese & Russian anti-ship missiles. See here.

Chinese Yingji-82 aka. C-802 anti-ship missile.

Chinese Nasr-1 anti-ship missile.

@OptimusSubprime: ...and yes they have the capability to take out a Nimitz class carrier.




China also built an entire missile plant in Iran last year to produce the Nasr-1 anti-ship cruise missile


I hope all the warmongers are wrong & nothing happens, because Iran et al. will not be pushovers...

If it hits the fan, it won't be just Iran in the fray. Who else then?

A highly armed (by Syria & Iran, & a very downplayed) Hezbollah for one.
edit on 31-12-2011 by susp3kt because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:36 PM
link   
Don't forget about this:




posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:42 PM
link   

Originally posted by OrphenFire
reply to post by Eurisko2012
 


FIAR LAZERS?

I hope so.


Here it is. They probably have at least one installed on the carrier right now.


The Iranian high speed boats may also get blasted by the laser!



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by susp3kt
Who cares about their speedboats?

Iran has Chinese & Russian anti-ship missiles. See here.

The Chinese Yingji-82 aka. C-802 anti-ship missile.

@OptimusSubprime


I hope all the warmongers are wrong & nothing happens, because Iran et al. will not be pushovers.
edit on 31-12-2011 by susp3kt because: (no reason given)
The Chinese 'Silkworm' was going to sink all of our ships in the Persian Gulf at one time too.

The Iraqis fired one at us and the Brits shot it down with one of their anti-missile missiles.
edit on 31-12-2011 by butcherguy because: Fixed screw-up.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:44 PM
link   
 


off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:46 PM
link   
To open the straights they would have to not only pass through it, they would have to block further attempts to mine or disrupt the traffic...This could be accomplished by simply sinking (or damaging) one tanker...
There would have to be a constant US presence to keep the ships passing through safely....
We WILL lose ships and men.....
We may not be able to do it without full blown warfare like bombing the Iranians back to the stone age.....
With conventional weapons of course....
This means a protracted air campaign against Iranian infrastructure......command and control....supply and re enforcement depots etc...
We would have to cripple their aboility to wage effective warfare and who can say how far that will take us?
Wed end up destroying Iran to ground level.....
This would take some time.....



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:48 PM
link   
1 nuclear sub is enough to turn all of Iran into a sheet of glass



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:50 PM
link   

Originally posted by stirling
To open the straights they would have to not only pass through it, they would have to block further attempts to mine or disrupt the traffic...This could be accomplished by simply sinking (or damaging) one tanker...
There would have to be a constant US presence to keep the ships passing through safely....
We WILL lose ships and men.....
We may not be able to do it without full blown warfare like bombing the Iranians back to the stone age.....
With conventional weapons of course....
This means a protracted air campaign against Iranian infrastructure......command and control....supply and re enforcement depots etc...
We would have to cripple their aboility to wage effective warfare and who can say how far that will take us?
Wed end up destroying Iran to ground level.....
This would take some time.....


We may have to occupy Iran on the coast around the Strait of Hormuz.
While we are there i guess we could occupy the centrifuges area as well.
We could take custody of the weapons grade uranium.

And oh yeah.....give us back that toy drone we gave you.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:51 PM
link   
 


off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:52 PM
link   
reply to post by stirling
 

You can not shut the straights off by sinking one vessel..it is too wide.34 miles wide I think.
Are you getting mixed up with the suez canal?

edit on 31-12-2011 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:52 PM
link   

Originally posted by butcherguy
The Iraqis fired one at us and the Brits shot it down with one of their anti-missile missiles.


That may be so, & then it might not be, but the C-802 nor the Nasr-1 are no outdated Silkworms.



The single shot hit probability of the Yingji-82 is estimated to be as high as 98%


Oh, the Nasr-1 is undetectable on radar btw...
edit on 31-12-2011 by susp3kt because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
58
<< 11  12  13    15  16  17 >>

log in

join