Notification of a Human Case of H5N1 Bird Flu in Shenzhen

reply to post by soficrow


ahh, I see, there was already a tailor-made excuse in the covenant: they HAD to make an engineered variant to counter an apparent threat. Nice. All bases covered.

Thing is, any vaccine from a natural mutation wont work on one that's been manufactured.

reply to post by chocise


It is too early to say where this thing is going to go? As I said earlier, I hope it is an isolated incident. As you said, it could be the planet's way of reducing the population? Still, if it is a virulent strain and is on a few international flights it is going to spread like a wild fire. In agreement with you about now a days, and the first influenza epidemic. This time around it will be much worse than what took place in 1918. All we can do is wait and see...

reply to post by chocise

... the very young, old, already sick & infirm will die off. Is flu really such a badie? It aint ebola afteral.

Too much like ebola for comfort - seems to hijack the MOST healthy immune systems, kill by a cytokine storm - and leave a whole lot of old, already sick & infirm getting progressively -but slowly- sicker..

If it is Gaia, it's a shame it can't target the a**es of our kind.

It just might - and everyone who got their yearly flu shots. Check this out: Proof: Vaccines Can Be Harmful.

We'll just have to wait and see how this pans out I guess.

Yes - and do NOT panic; just prepare.

Originally posted by soficrow

lol. Unlikely. Some bacteria reproduce every 9 minutes - people take quite a bit longer. Mind you, seems there's a lot we don't know about evolution. Maybe we'll be saved by epigenetics and horizontal transfer.

I know buddy, it was kinda tongue incheek, but might still add weight to the Cambrian Explosion. We dunno really quite how major phyla sprang into existence, but that's the point, perhaps there are periods when things really do 'just explode', like the big bang: ex nihilo nihil fit.

reply to post by chocise

ahh, I see, there was already a tailor-made excuse in the covenant: they HAD to make an engineered variant to counter an apparent threat. Nice. All bases covered.

??? Even without being compared to millions making poisons for Big Pharma and nano-tech - these 2 guys are flippin altruistic heroes. Their crime was wanting to share their knowledge to benefit humankind, instead of for profit.

Thing is, any vaccine from a natural mutation wont work on one that's been manufactured.

Erm. Doesn't make any sense to me - vaccines target specific strains, no matter how they 'evolved.' ...Fouchier didn't modify any genes btw - he just pushed the 'natural' evolution.

Originally posted by soficrow
??? Even without being compared to millions making poisons for Big Pharma and nano-tech - these 2 guys are flippin altruistic heroes. Their crime was wanting to share their knowledge to benefit humankind, not for profit.

Sorry Sofi, which guys?

Erm. Doesn't make any sense to me. Not sure where you get your information. Care to share some sources?

They'd be different strains, genetically, so any vaccine aimed at one could not be specific to another. That's all... do I really need a source here, Sofi?

reply to post by chocise

Originally posted by chocise

Originally posted by soficrow
??? Even without being compared to millions making poisons for Big Pharma and nano-tech - these 2 guys are flippin altruistic heroes. Their crime was wanting to share their knowledge to benefit humankind, not for profit.

Sorry Sofi, which guys?

Fouchier in the Netherlands and Kawaoka in Wisconsin - both headed teams (funded by the NIH) and created new strains. Again - no genetic engineering, just creating the opp for mutation and pushing evolution.

imho - they were set up to be scapegoated for a pandemic everyone knew was emerging naturally. Point being, they are NOT bad guys, and what they did has a whole lot more merit and is a lot less dangerous than other research that's done "confidentially" every day.

Erm. Doesn't make any sense to me. Not sure where you get your information. Care to share some sources?

They'd be different strains, genetically, so any vaccine aimed at one could not be specific to another.

Yes - it's the strains that count, not the process. ...Thought you saying something else.

....any time you want to start talking about proteins, let me know.



PS. I edited my post while you were responding.

Originally posted by soficrow
Fouchier in the Netherlands and Kawaoka in Wisconsin - both headed teams (funded by the NIH) and created new strains. Again - no genetic engineering, just creating the opp for mutation and pushing evolution.

Hey, c'mon, and we're diverging and coming off topic, but I must stress any intervention & manipulation is not evolution, it's genetic manipulation. Are you seriously defending these people now?

Yes - it's the strains that count, not the process. ...Thought you saying something else.

I don't follow you now, sorry

....any time you want to start talking about proteins, let me know.

OK... as you asked, why are they all left hand?

Originally posted by chocise

Originally posted by soficrow
Fouchier in the Netherlands and Kawaoka in Wisconsin - both headed teams (funded by the NIH) and created new strains. Again - no genetic engineering, just creating the opp for mutation and pushing evolution.

Hey, c'mon, and we're diverging and coming off topic, but I must stress any intervention & manipulation is not evolution, it's genetic manipulation.

Genetic manipulation and engineering involve tinkering mechanically with the genes - as I understand the reports, Fouchier and Kawaoka did NOT intervene mechanically - they just chose existent strains and allowed them to mutate. [Going from memory here, have not reread, rechecked.]

Are you seriously defending these people now?

Yes, for several reasons, eg: 1. Their motives were honest - they were working to find the path to treatments. 2. Unlike corporate researchers, they wanted to share their results with all other flu scientists to get everyone on the same page, so everyone would benefit, instead of for personal profit.

NOTE: There is little doubt several Big Pharma corporations have done similar work - they just did not present their findings at a flu conference and share their results. Never mind the boys at Fort Detrick.

Yes - it's the strains that count, not the process. ...Thought you saying something else.

I don't follow you now, sorry

You said:

Thing is, any vaccine from a natural mutation wont work on one that's been manufactured.

....any time you want to start talking about proteins, let me know.

OK... as you asked, why are they all left hand?

???

Quick update:

39-year-old has tested positive for H5N1, which kills 60 percent of people it infects

The virus also kills migratory birds but species that manage to survive can carry and disperse the virus to new, uninfected locations.

The virus can kill birds and humans in a matter of days but can survive far longer durations in a moist, cool environment.

It transmits less easily between people but there have been clusters of infections in people in Indonesia and Thailand in the past, where the virus is believed to have been passed between family members through direct contact with contaminated respiratory secretions.

Mid-November: Indonesia Readies for Airborne H5N1 Bird Flu

Originally posted by soficrow
Genetic manipulation and engineering involve tinkering mechanically with the genes - as I understand the reports, Fouchier and Kawaoka did NOT intervene mechanically - they just chose existent strains and allowed them to mutate. [Going from memory here, have not reread, rechecked.]

Sofi, ' tinkering mechanically with the genes' speaks for itself.

Yes, for several reasons, eg: 1. Their motives were honest - they were working to find the path to treatments. 2. Unlike corporate researchers, they wanted to share their results with all other flu scientists to get everyone on the same page, so everyone would benefit, instead of for personal profit.

NOTE: There is little doubt several Big Pharma corporations have done similar work - they just did not present their findings at a flu conference and share their results. Never mind the boys at Fort Watchamacallit.

Very dangerous Sofi, no-one can predict the results. It's like skating on very thin Swiss ice, not a good idea or basis for any rationale. I suggest all GM work stay in the lab.... which is the real point of your thread, wasn't it?

Thing is, any vaccine from a natural mutation wont work on one that's been manufactured.

yip, i said that, they are specific, .... so what are you saying on this?

???

You asked me to ask you specifically about proteins. Anyone with any biochemical knowledge knows there are both left & right mirrored molecules. All life's proteins are LH. Why is that?

reply to post by chocise


Several responses here indicate that Fouchier and Kawaoka are going to be blamed -inaccurately and unfairly- for any H5N1 pandemic that might emerge.

In fact, factory farming, industrial activities and erroneous assumptions about the abilities and inabilities of mirror molecules have created a world where the very foundations of our biology have been changed - both accidentally and on purpose.

We are only beginning to see the results - which are NOT Fouchier's and Kawaoka's fault.

reply to post by soficrow


I beg to differ.

Anyone f**king around with the genes to create a more virulent virus is blameworthy. You want hell on earth, you might have just created it. What an absurd proposition you propose Sofi, and a totally unjustifiable/irresponsible one – I was mistaken, I thought at first you had objected.

I remove the flag, and as a mark of the Raven, cow down on the Crow. Shame on you.

...and you still haven't answered the question you proposed on your own protein topic: double shame.

No doubt this will all pan out as it was meant.

Interesting. Depending on how this progresses I might have to alter my SHTF bag pretty dramatically. I got a fair haul of survival goodies over the holidays, but for this type of emergency my provisions are painfully slim.

hhmi.org...reply to post by chocise


It is the amino acids that are left handed in the bio chemistry of proteins. An interesting side note is that bacteria form proteins from right handed amino acids. It is an interesting question you ask and I will have to look into it further. Sorry for butting in if unwarranted. I Tried to add the link to but it placed it along the header instead of the post box. My bad.

This is all WAY over my head but just a thought:

Is it possible the bus driver (Chen is his name I think) contracted the virus through a human carrier who had been in contact with poultry who wasn't aware that he was infected?

So, someone contracts H5N1 a la infected chicken or whatever and say that very day before he/she has exhibited any symptoms and obviously isn't taking any precautions passes it along to this Chen fellow. Chen certainly wouldn't be able to isolate the carrier as human ... IDK ... seems possible?

I'd say this is definitely something to watch. I'll need to see a whole lot before I believe there is anything artificial released though. Only the totally and utterly insane release a viral weapon.

Sure, they could make a vaccine and stock enough to cure 'NWO' personnel. Unfortunately the first major mutation of an artificial strain which can't be well predicted in the wild to begin with, and they die with everyone else.

I figure Spanish Flu was a time before anyone could dream of induced mutation, and it killed more than World War I. Pandemics come fairly regularly in history it seems..and we are about due for one, to be frank about it. Could it be this year? Oh geeze, why not? Can anything else possibly be added to 2012, before it's even begun? lol....

China Says Man Dies Of Bird Flu
www.trust.org...
31 Dec 2011 09:08
Source: Reuters

BEIJING, Dec 31 (Reuters) - A man in southern China's Guangdong province died of bird flu on Saturday a week after being admitted to hospital with a fever, state media reported.

The 39-year-old bus driver living in Shenzhen, just across the border from Hong Kong, developed symptoms on Dec. 21 and was admitted to a hospital on Dec. 25 because of severe pneumonia, the official Xinhua news agency said.

He died in the early afternoon, having tested positive for the H5N1 virus, the brief report added.

Why do I get the sick feeling in my stomach that this is going to turn into a bigger story?

HAH—maybe everyone was wrong about 2012. It won't be comets, or earthquakes, or super volcanoes, or tsunamis, or solar flares that kills us off. Just a simple virus. Fitting, really—we humans always try to over-complicate things. Nature often takes the easiest course to remedy a problem.

I think many people underestimate the significance of human to human transfer in this scenario. It's not out of the question that this is the catalyst. Economies, government structures, and freedom itself could all fly out the window. I remember 2011 starting with a bang—and what a year it was. Perhaps a fitting prelude to what 2012 has in store?

I hope not!!

If there is even the slightest chance that this outbreak could be of an un natural type, then China must go into full and total lockdown. No travel, be that commercial, political, cargo or any other type, from China to anywhere else on the globe. A full closure of all borders, and deployment of active area denial weapons to prevent ANY crossing of the border what so ever by smugglers and persons interested in leaving the quarantine zone, must be enacted to prevent passage of this disease as far as is reasonable.

Obviously with an airborne threat, rather than a touch transmitted one, the difficulties are much larger. However, every effort must be made to ensure that the greatest distance between infected areas and uninfected people is established, because the more distance the bug has to travel between hosts, the better. This is because distance increases the chance of the virus dying off through inaction and the inability to gain a host.