Originally posted by dragonrider

I still am very interested in the presence of the Piri Reis map, which proves some far ancient knowledge of Antarctica beyond a shadow of a doubt, at a time when the human race simply did not possess the technical ability to have such knowledge.

I'm with you 100%, DR. Why hasn't the scientific community been on the question of how the Piri Reis map could have been produced when it was? They should be all over this like ugly on an ape about how the knowledge was known as far back as it was. This single map shows how dogmatic and religious the scientific community has become. They absolutely will ignore any physical evidence that goes against their hypotheses...shame shame shame!

Would like to share some interesting technical paper references along with abstracts:

810223 ANTARCTICA -- GEOLOGY (C)
CAN GAS HYDRATES SOLVE THE MYSTERIES OF LAKE VOSTOK?; R.Anderson and B.Tohidi (Heriot Watt Univ) and S.Motaghi (Environ & Infrastruct Svcs). 4TH GAS HYDRATES INT. CONF. [ICGH-4] (Yokohama, Japan, 5/19-23/2002) PROC. v.1, pp.245-250, 2002. (28 refs)
Buried beneath the Antarctic ice sheet for a period likely to be in excess of one million years, subglacial Lake Vostok is arguably one of the most unique environments on Earth. The lake may contain organisms that have evolved independently of the outside world, adapting to a cold, dark environment, with a limited supply of nutrients. The lake is of particular interest in its perceived similarity to the environment of Jupiter's Moon, Europa. Europa's ice-covered surface may mask a liquid water ocean that could be home to living organisms, proving that life can exist on planets other than Earth. Lake Vostok provides a unique opportunity for the testing of a prototype interplanetary probe destined for Europa, which could ultimately reveal the presence of life outside Earth. However, technical difficulties, particularly relating to the dangers of contamination, have resulted in increasing delays, meaning it may be years before an attempt at penetration into the lake becomes a reality. Here, an alternative approach is proposed using current technology, which could reveal invaluable information about the lake and its environment, without requiring penetration. Limited modelling studies support the presence of clathrates within Lake Vostok, and remnant hydrate structures have been identified in core samples of lake ice accreted to the base of the overlying glacial ice sheet. Analysis and modelling of gases trapped within these clathrates could reveal important information regarding the environment of the lake and the potential for life.

789348 ANTARCTICA -- GEOPHYSICS (C)
WAVELET BASED PROCESSING OF AIRBORNE RADAR DATA FROM EAST ANTARCTICA; M.Pipan, M.De Vecchi and E.Forte (Trieste Univ) and I.Tabacco (Milan Univ). 64TH EAGE CONF. (Florence, Italy, 5/27-30/2002) EXTENDED ABSTR. v.1, pap. no.D-35, 2002. (ISBN 90-73781-20-5; 4 pp; 10 refs)
Wavelet transform-based noise attenuation techniques are applied to airborne radar data from the Vostok area (Antarctica). Comparison between Fourier, polynomial, and wavelet-based denoising methods shows that the latter is more effective in wow effect removal and high frequency noise attenuation. The analysis is performed with a Daubechies mother wavelet at the second level of decomposition. The proposed methods allow an average 3 dB signal to noise ratio increment compared with the polynomial and Fourier ones. (Longer abstract available)

Val,

Very good finds on the clathrates!

I have written a couple of papers on Clathrates back in college, and find them to be fascinating myself. If they are as extensive as thought, they could easily provide an energy source as plentiful as all of the oil reserves throughout history.

There are a couple of very interesting theories being floated about clathrates being the cause for ships being lost in the Bermuda Triangle (although I think that might be reaching a bit).

It is possible that the gas release from clathrate degradation (most likely from the ice cap, assuming that clathrates are accumulated on the bottom of the ice) as the ice cap moves over the buried mountains and rock formations. Methane is released, and could potentially account for the *air dome* mapped over the lake.

However, if any lifeforms were found in this environment, it would certainly be FAR different from anything that we have seen so far... something capable of living in a methane atmosphere...

If it is true, Lake Vostok could present a VAST reservoir of methane... one of the largest in the world...

That would explain not wanting to "punch a hole" through the ice for "environmental concerns".
What would an enormous release of methane there do to the ozone hole already present? Hmmmm

Lots of info here! Toooo much for my little brain! My question is, are we talking drilling or tunneling? I f we are talking tunneling that would mean MASSIVE size equipment, much akin to the channel tunnel machines, interesting point the tunneling machines were designed for that project only, where did they go? I think it would be interesting to see if there is any old seismic records covering the channel project maybe a comparrison of then and now could answer the question of drilling or tunneling, and is there anyway to find out if any if any large shipments have been made to the site?

I have a copy of Admiral Byrds diary somewhere talking about antartica and the expierences he had there, in particular the mission where so many troops were lost, might be interesting to put some quotes from it in this thread, or has this been debunked?

dragonrider


I watch a programme the other evening all about this, and was fasinated to find out that they was comparing the same landscape's etc with Mars and other planets.

But I dont see how they can say that the same microb's are on Mars or the other planet's, unless they already been there?

I know they sent that probe up a few years ago, which took samples from the planet and sent the details back, so what happen to the probe's that were on Mars? still there?



blackwidow

The mars probes are still on mars. They were equipped with sensors that would supposedly detect any organic carbon based lifeforms, IE bacteria.

There is some controversy over just what the findings were for these sensors. There apparently was a blip detected, but on second analysis, there was nothing.

The interpretation of this was that either there was no bacteria present, and it was a glitch, or that it was some form of bacteria, but essentially ate itself leaving no residue.

Keep in mind that whoever is releasing this information (NASA) is also the ones that have a vested interest in not necessarily being truthful with such findings...

As far as the mars/deep ocean/lake vostok biosphere, they are describing a type of life that does not otherwise exist on the surface of the planet, but does exist in the deep sea volcanic vents.

On the surface, all life centers around the basis of photosynthesis (plant life being the base of the food chain for us). In the deep ocean volcanic vents, where sunlight physically cannot penetrate, there have been found very active and advances biospheres centered around chemosynthetic bacteria that survive mainly off of the sulfur compounds that are released from these volcanic vents. This has led to the evolution of an entire new class of lifeforms that could never have evolved on the surface.

It has been speculated that because Europa is known to have liquid water oceans, and is volcanically active, the same type of lifeform may have evolved there. This speculation has been carried over to Lake Vostok for the same reasons.

Ive got a little side note to this thing since we are speaking of NASA.
Has anyone thought of the idea that the NASA story of this being the practice run for Europa is all a story? That NASA is just the cover for the NSA which is really running the drilling operation? NASA provides a credable organisation with a legitamate coverstory to allow funding and research into this operation. Its not pivotal to the overall question but if this were the case it would provide insite to the true motives and reason for the operation. I do put a lot of stock into the theorys of Charles Hapgood and I think it could well be the remains of an ancient technology under the ice. The sad fact is we will never know what they find even if they show us video of the lake and its contents we will only see what they want us to see!

Ice and methane, eh? Sounds a lot like the physical properties of Saturn's moon, Titan.

There are plenty of sites about tunelling machines, but I haven't head-linked: 1: Active machine 2: Geology it's chewing 3: Seismic stations variously situated relative.
Easy to think up; hard in practice.

Does anyone have any more info on why this guy is being evaced??? I have searched and not found anything...

Well... It is REALLY cold down there, and the risk of frostbite and pneumonia and such is really high, as well as other ailments and diseases im sure. It might not be such a conspiracy after all

Frostbite and pneumonia are common ailments, and McMurdo base sickbay is more than equipped to deal with any of those. No reason to evac them, when they would likely only rate light duty for a week or so.

Besides, why the extreme secrecy surrounding something that banal? Even wanting to keep the identity secret???

Also, as I understand it, common colds are rather rare in antarctica, because the average air temperature is so cold it freezes the virus while airborne, and they tend to drop out of the air, therefore, less contagious than in a heated environment.

Here in Canuckville, the man's identity is media revealled
as Ronald Shemenski. In the CBC web article he is sick with pancreas & bladder problems. Apparently the picture accompanying the story is him standing up giving
an interview after landing in Chile.
If he don't have the nausea, I bet he could use some fresh chilli: -100 at the pole, with wind chill.