In addition to a potential heat source. Those who are particularly taken by the X Files movie will likely believe a nuclear device of alien manufacture, however geothermal vents would produce more than enough heat to keep such a formation liquid.

Originally posted by ilovepizza
If the lake is about 3800 Meters deep how can it not be frozen?

Also I have read the water is 7 times saltier than our average ocean and this would lower freezing poit
and the ice acts as a blanket to atmospheric weather conditions
trust me on this
I live in an Igloo in Alaska
locals say I am the only Human left

How can the top layer of the ice act as a covering if the top layer is moving. Wouldnt the lake run out of water. The flash animation said in 13,000 all of the water from the lake would be gone, but somehow there is a source of new water.

Okay, the interruption gives me a little more faith in chunneling or drilling. You know, I can't get straight in my head how abusive drilling ice would be. It seems you would be able to drill a LOT longer in ice (particularly if you are using a heated drilling fluid to help melt it as you go). So, it very well could be drilling and they just get a heck of a lot of life out of the bit. Now, everything I've read so far states they want to get a sanitized sample, so that would make you think they can't use any kind of liquid. There is dry drilling (injected gas through bit to uplift debris). And since there is no fear of hydrocarbons, they can just pump air if they want. And I bet you, THAT's what is happening. Envision, if you will, hot air or steam being pumped down the bit, melting the ice...you don't really have to worry about debris in this, because it's all ice, so if you can melt it...you're home free!

This is very interesting. IF the operation is to extract a sample of lake water...then I think drilling goes to the top of the list...no need for something as complicated and large as chunneling...BUT, if it is NOT to extract this sample...then anything's possible.

Originally posted by Valhall
Okay, the interruption gives me a little more faith in chunneling or drilling. You know, I can't get straight in my head how abusive drilling ice would be. It seems you would be able to drill a LOT longer in ice (particularly if you are using a heated drilling fluid to help melt it as you go). So, it very well could be drilling and they just get a heck of a lot of life out of the bit. Now, everything I've read so far states they want to get a sanitized sample, so that would make you think they can't use any kind of liquid. There is dry drilling (injected gas through bit to uplift debris). And since there is no fear of hydrocarbons, they can just pump air if they want. And I bet you, THAT's what is happening. Envision, if you will, hot air or steam being pumped down the bit, melting the ice...you don't really have to worry about debris in this, because it's all ice, so if you can melt it...you're home free!

This is very interesting. IF the operation is to extract a sample of lake water...then I think drilling goes to the top of the list...no need for something as complicated and large as chunneling...BUT, if it is NOT to extract this sample...then anything's possible.

Questions:
How or why would this cause seismic indications such as we are seeing?
Are the seismic indicators showing something 'massive' being utilized or am I thinking on this wrong?

regards
seekerof

The only flaw I see in that is DR's earlier assessment that NO form of "drilling" would cause this kind of seismic activity. Maybe it's more like an "air hammer" type of drilling? Similar to the one in your local garage for tire changes. Beats me, I'm just speculating again

edit--- LOL I gues Seekerof and I were on the same wavelength there. oops

[Edited on 1-8-2003 by Fry2]

Well, I believe Banshee or somebody posted a little gif showing drilling signatures on the seismic record. That is the 42 million dollar question...what is a "typical" rotary drilling signature on the record, and how does this one compare. If we can establish that, we can either rule rotary drilling out, or keep at the top of the list. I really don't see impact drilling as a feasible option here. First off, with the ability to use high velocity orifice flow through a rotary bit to help melt and wash away the ice, it would be a real numb-skull decision to use something that DIDN'T have that benefit. Furthermore, I do not believe it would give this type signature on the seismic record. I also don't believe it would have as long a life.

Those are my 2 cents...which is exactly what they're worth!

Seekerof,

I dont know how to convert what we see on the seismograph into any quantitative unit of energy, but I will bet serious money that this does NOT reflect normal drilling from a surface drill rig, even the monster oil rigs, unless the seimograph is located within a matter of meters from it.

It is not your imagination, the readings are getting considerably more intense... I wonder if they stopped to change teeth in the cutting head?

Originally posted by dragonrider
Seekerof,

I dont know how to convert what we see on the seismograph into any quantitative unit of energy, but I will bet serious money that this does NOT reflect normal drilling from a surface drill rig, even the monster oil rigs, unless the seimograph is located within a matter of meters from it.

It is not your imagination, the readings are getting considerably more intense... I wonder if they stopped to change teeth in the cutting head?

DR....
I agree with you.
I asked about the seismic readings coversion just to get an idea of the magnitude of energy being registered. This is actually quite amazing to me....

I am glad that you concur on the readings though. I had been following this since the topic started, unlike the "World Seismic Activity" topic...
I just happened to recall that the readings were a bit less in scope compared to what they are showing now after "they" had restarted. Thanks for the clarification and response.
I will continue to see what I can find so as to update the information we currently have.


regards
seekerof

Originally posted by Valhall
Okay, the interruption gives me a little more faith in chunneling or drilling. You know, I can't get straight in my head how abusive drilling ice would be. It seems you would be able to drill a LOT longer in ice (particularly if you are using a heated drilling fluid to help melt it as you go). So, it very well could be drilling and they just get a heck of a lot of life out of the bit. Now, everything I've read so far states they want to get a sanitized sample, so that would make you think they can't use any kind of liquid. There is dry drilling (injected gas through bit to uplift debris). And since there is no fear of hydrocarbons, they can just pump air if they want. And I bet you, THAT's what is happening. Envision, if you will, hot air or steam being pumped down the bit, melting the ice...you don't really have to worry about debris in this, because it's all ice, so if you can melt it...you're home free!

This is very interesting. IF the operation is to extract a sample of lake water...then I think drilling goes to the top of the list...no need for something as complicated and large as chunneling...BUT, if it is NOT to extract this sample...then anything's possible.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay now you are entering my world, welcome.

'You know, I can't get straight in my head how abusive drilling ice would be'

nothing to it, been their done that. think of it this way
[ beer for the pony's whiskey for the boys]]
it is easier to put ice into a blender than cold rocks to make a Margarita, Wasted Away!

'It seems you would be able to drill a LOT longer in ice (particularly if you are using a heated drilling fluid to help melt it as you go). '

Nay soothsayer,
One would not wish to use fluid.
It would only remain hot down the drill sting, when it turned the corner and started up the annulus it would freeze and all you would have is an inverted popsicile
on drill pipe.
Compressed air wouldn't work because of it's water content.
The only feasable and enviromentally sound way would be with liquid nitrogen, stay away from your return line or it will eat you alive [LOLOLOL]
Have you ever seen a nitrogen line burst, or heard it, have you everbeen experienced, well I have!
Jimi H.
Wish you were here !

' lot of life out of the bit.'
nope! can't use a bit cones won't rotate, to cold
gotta use a Baker Tungston Carbide Milll Tool, if you want I can go up to my Igloo and price it out for ya.
{Banshee says I am a Brat whats up with dat!]
Thats what I use on Cheney's Packer when I leave it in the hole., Haliburton! Tungsten Carbide way to go.

'since there is no fear of hydrocarbons'

hydrocarbons are everywhere, where there was life once.

'face your fear and it will pass thru you and only you will remain,' F Herbert

"have no fear or ignore it and it will eat you" T. Tut
it's a guy thing!

I still can't belive Banshee called me a Brat
Thats like a Knockwurst!



And I bet you, THAT's what is happening.


OH FAR OUT, I"LL TAKE THAT BET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cause I do not gamble, I win
what do you want to bet, I know what I want to bet.
C'MON, C'MON MAKE MY DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To freak'in bad your married and in Oklahoma.

p.s. This is very interesting. IF the operation is to extract a sample of lake water...then I think drilling goes to the top of the list...no need for something as complicated and large as chunneling...BUT, if it is NOT to extract this sample...then anything's possible.

=========================================
I'll address this later, got a call.

For professional consultations on drilling in severe conditions
address
permafrost_cementers@excite.com
if I can't answer your question I know who can

thats our motto and we bond to it

I agree, that seismic profile is indeed intensifying, and there is some kind of pattern in it. The only thing I can figure is that they are drilling through alternating hard and soft layers of rock (I honestly think they are well below the ice). However, that is a VERY regular pattern for interbedded rock...

Originally posted by Seekerof


Great find and would most certainly like to know how you went about obtaining or finding this stuff....trade secret?

regards
seekerof

Grazi. I do my best.

No real trade secret. I dig up all my info the same way.
It's just a matter of knowing how to use Google in a concise manner.
*shrug*
The above started out with a search for "antarctic drilling" and progressed with narrowing search terms.

This here intarweb has a whole lot of information, I tell ya.
-B.

Thanks Banshee.
That was probably my problem when I did my search a few days ago....like you I did the "antarctica drilling" but never fine tuned it to specifics as you did.
I was doing things like:
antarctica drilling
vostok drilling
latest news of drillings in Vostok
etc....

Great job again Banshee.

regards
seekerof

Originally posted by Banshee
DAMN, tut!!!
Did you have too much coffee this morning??

And when did I call you a brat?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No i only rarely drink coffee anymore I love it and it hates me.
Life time story.

I have not slept for a couple of days, and perhaps it was Val that called me a BRAT!
But I am sure that is what you were thinking anyway!


Meanwhile excellent investigative www. search. Thank you, you have opened many doors for me

Tut

However I have been drinking beer since the sun rose at 0500 hr