the reason i quit going to church

Originally posted by charles1952
I must say this isn't the conversation I expected to see when I came upon this thread,

Finding a teacher that you have no respect for is a good reason to leave, but what has happened since then? Have you found a different guide? Do you plan on doing it all by yourself? Is your faith stronger now?

Do you think the problem was with that individual alone? Is all of religion corrupt? Is it more prevalent in non-denominational churches?

I was hoping to find learning in areas like those.

It is not more prevalent in non-Denominational churches. The preacher was a jerk, the Bible says there would be jerks who preached. The Bible calls them ravening wolves and hirelings. The ultimate teaching is that each of us is responsible for our own spiritual education and individually we are to study because individually we are accountable for what we know. We are not accountable for what we don't know. But if we don't know because we just did not want to learn it and remain willfully ignorant, then we will be accountable for that.

reply to post by stealthmonkey


Grew up catholic my mother was extremely involved with the church she knew everyone. We went to church every sunday. went to catholic schools etc etc ad naseum. Stopped going to church probably around 18. Asked my dad recently if he believed in Jesus and he paused and said "yeah , I believe Ive been brainwashed to believe in him". As I got older I started to question the whole church. I believe there are very evil men running the show. Its all about money. They do not care about the so called flock. Sure there are some good men that believe they are serving a higher purpose but most are not. Just look at how they dealt with the pedeophile scandal. It was all about their precious money. It was their practice to shut victims up. One priest said that their mission was to get help for the priest and they thought the victim would just forget about the incident or incidents and go on with their lives. It truly is unbelievable. The sith lord who resides in the Vatican is guilty of the coverup and I really hope there is a god because I believe these men will burn.

Originally posted by stealthmonkey
reply to post by manna2

 

a red letter bible? now you are telling me what to read? i can read the orignal text in hebrew can you?

But through your grammar, it proves you disregard the native language you speak. It proves a lack of regard in respect toward the intended audience because you are just throwing words on a screen without real meaning.

So you can read in Greek and Hebrew, good for you. Do you know what it means what you have read? And can you present it with clarity and respect toward those who are reading what you write. Rules of Grammar, learn them, know them, use them. If you want to prove you are intellectual, then present your intellectualism. If I were a potential convert for you in India, and know proper grammar, by looking at your statement, I would think you were very elementary, you would lose me because of your disrespect for your own native English. If you can't respect your own written communication language, how will you respect mine?

Present yourself appropriately, it goes a long way when discussing intellectual things with intellectual people.

Originally posted by stealthmonkey
reply to post by manna2

 

i believe you are the brain washed one when you pay someone to tell you what is the cost of a bible unless you cannot read but you seem to beable to type so why would you pay your hard earned money to someone who telles you a story that you can read for yourself?

There is no use in trying to talk to this guy. If he sees all preachers as just story tellers then there is no hope for him. You are not paying a guy to tell stories when you go to church, if you are of this POV then you may be the type to just throw your hands up and quit something instead of seeking out a better way from a truer spirit.

reply to post by charles1952


i am fully aware that i donot have all the answers i am looking for a spiritual guide i know i have one already but my current sences cannot detect them i belive i need t teacher who can help me open my third eye

Originally posted by stealthmonkey
reply to post by chrismarco

 

im not saying all preachers are tha same i just mearly stated the reason he became a preacher was not to teach he just wanted the easy life

Don't give up on god. Just remove yourself from this fake preacher. People of the church need not be so upset when faced with the adversity of some of the "personalities" on this sight. Speak your peace let them hear your message and after that it is their decision and reprocussons that they themselves will have to deal with. You can only offer the word.

reply to post by Communicationwillfreeus


well i have tried the christinaity thing thats what i was brought up in but it doesnt work for me there is something else calling me and no its not demons or satan

Originally posted by stealthmonkey
when i was around the age of 17 we had a new precher come to our church he was just like all the rest he was precieved to be a good man by many but something wasnt right with him in my eyes. then one day he revealed the reason he became a preacher which shocked me and the whole church he said and i quote "its the easiest job i could find"

It's easy to mistake the truth for the person. In this case, like all others, the truth is in all of us already. We see examples of untruth and deception in everyone we meet, including pastors, and then fail to remove the same in our own self. The point of the Bible is to overcome the animal (666 beast) within ourselves by serving others in love. This reveals our faith to God. God develops our faith, not us. We express the faith by overcoming the beast. The book of revelation reveals this. Why are we the beast?

The mark of the beast is 666 and is the number of mankind. Carbon, which is what we are made from, has 6 protons, 6 neutrons and 6 electrons. We are to rise from the carbon into the breath and words of God. The word is spoken with Nitrogen and Oxygen. 777, 888 Overcome the carbon for the word. Once we do this, we receive the Holy Spirit (Clean Consciousness) and transcend everything around us.

Originally posted by stealthmonkey
reply to post by manna2

 

greek
ουτως γαρ ηγαπησεν ο θεος τον κοσμον ωστε τον υιον αυτου τον μονογενη εδωκεν ινα πας ο πιστευων εις αυτον μη αποληται αλλ εχη ζωην αιωνιον
כי ככה אהב האלהים את העולם עד אשר נתן את בנו את יחידו למען לא יאבד כל המאמין בו כי אם יחיה חיי עולמים׃hebrew

edit on 30-12-2011 by stealthmonkey because: (no reason given)

Looks like some one went fishing and caught a babble-fish. Just because your computer translates doesn't mean you do.

reply to post by Communicationwillfreeus


it doesnt mean i dont either

reply to post by stealthmonkey


I have always felt the church is just a big marketing scheme.

I know why there are no really good marketing managers in the corporate world......those that graduated at the top of their class became preachers.

reply to post by WarminIndy


i never said i was intellectual i said i was educated theres a big difference and aslong as you can understand what i am typing whats the difference? i am not a formal type of person if you are thats fine but i bet you can understand me just fine.

reply to post by WarminIndy


who said english is my native language?

Originally posted by stealthmonkey
reply to post by manna2

 

my english is fine im a country boy from florida a highly educated one i might add

intelligent, maybe, wise no chance.
Your reasoning goes like this.
I am a mechanical engineer and I tell you water is as good as gasoline when operating your car.
I am an electrical engineer and only I can tell you how to operate a light switch. I use the fuse box
So what if you speek hebrew and greek if you cannot understand simple logic?
Your lack of communicative skills is astounding and your point you made is from a simpleton.
Go back to c and p hebrew and greek and maybe someone will believe you that you are highly intelligent.
Your original post is ridiculous and shows that your education and intelligence has lead to a complete lack of an ability to discern simple truths. You are a poster child for a simpleton mind confused by a public education.
The first clue is telling me how smart you are to make up for your silly post that simply lacks a basic ability to discern truth from foolish pre-suppositions.
All you have left now is an attempt to talk down to your superiors when attempting to act wise by speaking foolishness.
I simply use a lightswitch to turn on the lights.
When I need an electrician I use an electrician.
The last thing I do when I call him is to tell him I speak hebrew and greek so don't over charge me for your services.

It was just a few weeks ago when a friend asked me: Do you believe in God?
And I told him this story…

In ’79 when I was in the 3rd or 4th grade going to Catholic school. In my Catholic school we would have Mass first thing in the morning, confessions on Fridays and of course, one of our classes was Religion. I actually loved Religion, because of all the cool stories the Bible had in it. I recall always being in trouble though. I couldn’t understand why I kept getting in trouble; I was a good kid – all the kids liked me, even the older girls. I was always getting straight A’s – I was always the lead in school plays --- but for some reason, the Principal’s Holy Paddle and my rear-end were getting to know one another really well. Oh, and I should probably thank the teachers and Nuns for my exceptional shoulder and arm muscles for allowing me to kneel in front of the classrooms, arms stretched/palms up while holding encyclopedias in either hand until I broke in humiliation while all the other kids just sat there and watched!

So, I remember one of the Nuns suggested that I sign up for Altar Boy services, so I thought, hmm, that’d be kind of cool. I would get to see where Father Tom gets his wine from and I would also get to wave the incense around and put out the candles with that long brass pole with the flower at the end. So I inquired. The Nun then told me to go see Father Tom in his office for lunch. I get to his office, and I remember I was always intimidated by Father Tom. He was an old, white-haired, husky man with a loud voice! I remember when he would pound on the podium at Service I would think to myself, why is this guy always mad when he preaches? I don’t get it! I guess he was just passionate. Who knows!

So I get to Father Tom’s place (which was next door to school), and he calls me into his office. I’m standing in front of his desk, looking around (ugh, he has one of those paddles with holes in it like the Principle does!), and he tells me in his thick accent “So you want to be a servant of God eh?” Geez, I didn’t think the job was that deep. I just thought it was a cool gig at the time. Uh, yeah, I guess so! So he stands from his chair, walks over to me and sits on the front of his desk and begins rambling about responsibilities and how it would lead to a good future for me… meanwhile I’m thinking - man, wow, he’s really serious about this job! Next he says “Ju know, a good-looking boy like ju woul’make a bery nice Altar Voy!”… as he’s saying this, he’s stroking the side of my face! Ugh! I’m getting creeped out just writing this… and just as he did that, I naturally recoiled and took a step back. He then grabs and squeezes my shoulder/upper arm and says “Take some time to think about it.” I couldn’t get out any faster! I couldn’t explain why that creeped me out, I just know I was really bothered by it.

Then I remember my teacher kept getting mad at me because I kept “daydreaming” and “drifting” while he was trying to teach class – meanwhile, that’s when I began to question Religion and wonder why would a “Man of God” touch me the way I would see a man touch a woman. I’d say I distanced myself from adults at that time as a kid. Then, it seemed, my teacher then began picking on me for every little reason. I’d get in trouble more often and have more detention time than any other kids. I was pretty fed up with these people. The Nuns loved to punish me through corporal punishment. Man, they were some scary ladies I’ll tell you what! So finally, one of the school bullies kept calling me a weirdo because I stopped talking to the other kids during recess or lunch. Obviously this was a result from being creeped out by Father Pervert over here.

So I finally look up and give this kid the stink eye, along with the middle finger! And what happens? My teacher sees me in action – shouts out in front of the entire school – “GO TO THE CLASSROOM RIGHT NOW!”, and I just remember it getting so quiet. I can feel all the kids’ eyes peering at my back. On my way to the classroom I was thinking why do I keep getting in trouble so much? So I’m sitting in class, waiting for my teacher to come in. My heart is pounding and I remember feeling ashamed, embarrassed… all kinds of emotions that I couldn’t explain were filling me. So, this guy comes in, slams his things on the desk and starts yelling at me – “What’s your problem? Do you know what God does to young punks like you? Do you know how you’re gonna end up?” I’m sitting there crying my eyes out, and this guy is telling me that I’m going straight to hell! Then I ask him, What am I doing so wrong? Why do I keep getting in trouble? He replies, “Because you keep asking those stupid questions like ‘how is it possible for Jesus to walk on water or how does he make it stop raining’. You say these words because you are evil! Only evil people question the Word!”

To Be Continued...

Continued...

I didn’t understand what he meant at the time, now I get it. But wow! This is an adult telling me that I’m evil, when I know for a fact that I’m a good kid! Me being a naturally good/nice kid, I’ve always gravitated to kindness and intelligence. That’s when I began to question more and more the validity of people like my teachers, the Nuns and Priests!

In the thirty plus years since that happened, I kept that story to myself. I told this story twice before you’re reading it within the past 2 months or so. The initial incident didn’t screw me up whatsoever. I wasn’t molested in any way shape or form. I was however, psychologically and emotionally afflicted by the whole series of events that came thereafter. Same thing happened to me when I was a bit older with the school janitor when I asked him to get me an extra basketball. He took me to the student equipment room and told me “they’re over there – grab any one you want!” As I was looking through the bucket for a fresh one, this creep comes up from behind me and starts touching my back as if I was a hot chick! I sprung up real quick and told him “Touch me like that again and I’ll break your f*****g nose!” The sick bastard gave me a wicked smile as I walked passed him out the door. Years later, I heard he got busted for… take a wild guess! Yup! Child molestation!

As a grown man, I’m very weary of men who work in fields around children. Boy Scout leaders – Arcade owner/operators – Birthday Clowns – Priests… I guess those incidents didn’t really screw me up in the head as much as they would some people, but they did however, help me to build a strong radar system to weed out the sick pedophiles that we’re surrounded by. Because of these incidents, the last time I voluntarily went to church to worship God was in 1982. That’s when I knew, I was on my own, and it was all up to me to build a strong soul within myself – and only me!

reply to post by manna2


i was making a point within a point and yes i am a simple person i do know water can be used just the same as gasoline and i knwo how it is done i just dont know the correct procedure to accomplish it and if you were a teacher you would try to guid me insted of talking down to me

reply to post by manna2


your lack of understanding is really annoying i said i can speak hebrew yes but for different reasons than you took it i read the bible in the orignal text not the english interpertation of it which the true meaning of a lot of it has been distorted in the translation so go ahead and keep it up i would love to hear what else you have to say with your long winded meaningless rants

Originally posted by stealthmonkey
when i was around the age of 17 we had a new precher come to our church he was just like all the rest he was precieved to be a good man by many but something wasnt right with him in my eyes. then one day he revealed the reason he became a preacher which shocked me and the whole church he said and i quote "its the easiest job i could find"

I came to the same conclusion about my priest a year ago and that was the straw that broke the camel's back. Can you give the context of the preacher's quote? I'm having a hard time visualizing the preacher's motivation for saying that - especially if it upset so many people in his congregation.

reply to post by cloudyday


we were on a hay ride looking at christmas lights and a little kid asked him why he became a preacher and that was his answer which was over herd by my grandpa sitting there which was a decon of the church needless to say he was voted out soon after