Originally posted by jackieisinlove

Originally posted by BlackSatinDancer

Originally posted by jackieisinlove

Originally posted by BlackSatinDancer

Originally posted by jackieisinlove
Can you back up how these people seem to be "incredibly naive" and "manipulated by forces they do not really understand"? And what does not eating meat have to do with anything?

While some of the "Namaste crowd," as you put it, can be judgmental... so are a lot of people. Your post is judgmental. Additionally, you share the same mindset as some other people. Does that mean that you're an example of "group-think" as well?

Some might say that it's incredibly naive to think that the world can and should continue with people creating wars, being cruel, thinking there are classes of people, etc.

hippies and veganism

do we really need to explain the concept all out?

it's not nice to hit cows in the head and people who want to be nice or want to pretend to be nice if they are trolling, don't hit cows in the head or cause cows to be hit in the head.

well, some of them.

And how exactly does that make people naive or manipulated by forces they don't understand?

I just don't understand exactly how being loving and wanting to care for living things and the planet is naive.

Man, people will complain about anything, won't they? "THESE PEOPLE ARE TOO LOVING!"

Sorry, I misunderstood your post. god only knows what i was thinking about at the time.

well, now that i understand your question... i think most thinks it's rough and tough to kill another beast. Since that has been the way or survival for man for a long time, most think that people simply cannot live without it... therefore they are so niave they think they can go without eating.

I didn't even become vegan... just vegetarian and do you have any idea how many people have said startled at my decision "WELL WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO EAT"

ummm....everything else?

edit on 3-1-2012 by BlackSatinDancer because: (no reason given)

Well, I guess I'm biased since I'm a raw vegan kundalini yoga hippy, but I personally think it's naive to think we can go on abusing the world and the people in it without horrible repercussions. Or, rather, that the horrible repercussions we're currently facing aren't due to the fact that we've been abusing the world for so long. Minus the political corruption, world hunger could be solved if everyone -- or even just a percentage of people -- went vegan.

The OP said that people such as described would have limited horizons and would be devoid of passion. It's weird because I tend to think people who are as described are more passionate -- only about the right things, rather than petty arguments.

Oh well, just my opinion. I'm not zen enough yet to not have one.

i do not disagree with this.

i also like the point you made about the waste involved with all the cattling. they can't grasp the spiritual repercussion... just disregard that as idea altogether. yet they ALSO cannot even grasp the material value involved with a little modification that could even help them be more healthy.

Originally posted by BlackSatinDancer
I'm not asking why i chose to be here. i think i already know the answer to that. i don't think that all is one and one is all even comes close to being a good answer because the bad part of all could be something that the ALL wants to be rid of... and therefore it WILL TRANSFORM IT.

how do you know that is not the mission of many?

how do you know they are not doing that RIGHT NOW.

I've made no argument against such a view.

Would those many be able to have that mission if there weren't people to be "transformed"?

If "all is one and one is all", doesn't part of one have to choose to become "transformable" in order to be "transformed"?

The desire to transform creates instantly something that needs to be transformed.

I make no argument on which is better or worse. Each perspective gives a unique answer. All true, none "right".

Originally posted by BlackSatinDancer
and ftr, you basically just called me a bad person who cannot feel love in crappy people because I'm not SOOO good that my goodness doesn't over power all the bad i see.

To me, that's crazy.

You have no idea how much I am aware of the potential for my own negativity, yet i harm no one.

I'm sorry you felt that was what was being communicated to you. I from my vantage point don't see anything bad in you and don't at all think of you as a bad person. Nowhere in my words or feelings were any bad feelings directed at you, only compassion and hopeful excitement for your next moment. Honestly. All interpretation of you being a bad person who cannot feel love is taken internally. I have attempted with the tools available to me, to offer the best mirror for the areas you are projecting that show your own coloring of situations that... again from my vantage point... are affecting how you interpret the events and people you do experience.

I have absolutely confidence you are a "good person" who knows love. I also hear you telling me that you also know "bad" and "bad people" while seeming to ask why. I offer the best answer for why. So that you may know why you are good. Once this is understood, they cease to be bad.

Originally posted by BlackSatinDancer
you say to achieve this higher state, you must not find fault in all these things that are NOT external to you and are a part of you.

yet you want ME.... TO CHANGE SOMETHING.

I don't want you to do anything except what you want to do. If you want to change, then change. If you want to change something, then try to change it. If you don't want to change it, then accept it. Nothing more.

I say a lot of things. You shouldn't listen to anything I say. Unless you want to.

Originally posted by BlackSatinDancer
if nothing is external TO YOU, then how can you possibly argue with me if what i am saying IS A PART OF YOU AS WELL?

apply that same principle TO ME and understand that I might be one with purpose in the actions or words of my own that maybe you just don't understand.

I'm not arguing with you. And I absolutely know what you are saying is a part of me.

A person who rants about minute details of Baseball statistics is a part of me as well. The portion of me writing this message however, is currently not focused on those Baseball statistics, just like it is not currently focused on being "separate" from you. Everything you are struggling with/upset with I too am upset with/struggling with. However I can choose to leave my vantage point and join you in your fight that you don't seem to enjoy, or I can remain in my current vantage point, remembering my previous trips down the same path you are currently on, and offer my notes.

Notes are nothing more than that... they aren't laws or rules... just notes. From one vantage point.

Originally posted by BlackSatinDancer
If i am you, then internalize ME and understand that MY WAY is transformation of things which I think should never be.

Then stop asking someone else why you feel things.

Originally posted by BlackSatinDancer
EDIT... this is so freaking aggravating. I did not ask that guy why i'm here.

I asked WHY ARE SOME SO CRAPPY, because i truly truly believe this and i believe something needs to be done about them.. in so many words.

You believe they are two different questions. I don't. The answer to one is the answer to the other.

If something needs to be done, then do it. What is stopping you from doing everything that needs to be done?

To put it another way: A person feels that EVERY grain of sand on every beach NEEDS to be sorted by size. How would you help them on their task?

my problem is not that i do not see purpose in even unfortunate things. My problem is not that i do not see my own purpose. You are excusing the fact that you assumed this issue about me. you also excuse the fact that other people might get upset by things you say, by saying it is all their interpretation.

No, it isn't.

there is a flip side to each coin. YOUR words can be just as accountable as my interpretation.

you see, everything is connected, until you disagree. THEN, it's my interpretation causing the problem. that is YOU externalizing something. admit that you are not a master of this philosophy and we will have much less of a problem in my eyes.

I do not completely disagree with what you say, but i firmly believe that the only way you can say it... it to do exactly opposite of this "all connectedness" & place yourself on the good side of that interpretation.

If all is already perfect in your eyes, then why was there any reason to reply?

You must admit that even you believe things cannot just be ignored into a state of utopia which is what this philosophy of all being perfect suggests, else you would do nothing. You would feel the need to change NO THING.

It's not that i do not get the philosophy, it's that YOU think you are more enlightened than the average joe i guess and feel that you have grasped something they cannot grasp. How can you say everything is already perfect when there is such a thing as 'imperfection" ah, but that is just the faulty interpretation, right? how can there BE a faulty interpretation if everything is just as it should be?

If these problems are meant to be "drivers" to keep us busy... then that means the worst thing we could do is tell ourselves we are so enlightened that they simply no longer bother us.

i'm just trying to get you to see this huge contradiction and why it would make so many people angry to say.... there are only problems in life because you perceive them as such.... yet that same person is eyeballing a problem in the philosophies of others.

YOU are not even practicing what you preach.

look, I don't have a real problem with you unless i think you are taking this so far that you just want to immobilize people by convincing them of this complacency with everything... even if they don't agree with it. Emotions were not meant to be simply buried that way... you push them back into the sub, they resurface.... unless you are living off of STRONG medication to the point where it at least does not rear it's head in this life.

i honestly feel that you are explaining something to people, because you think they might be a little dumb... when for all you know, they have considered things like this on and on and on in great depth.

listen... so all is a whole?

ok... to each whole, there are two halves.... there are MANY more smaller pieces.

those pieces do not have to be the same. You have duality, you have positive and negative. they say energy cannot be lost but it can certainly be transformed.

so why in the world do you think that a concept of "there are pieces within this whole that i don't want to be a part of"...and this drives my present character, my present brain...since my brain is just a part and not the whole... to be what it is. why do you think that concept cannot be just as real and valid as any other?

...and don't even try to say it's a matter of how happy you want to be... that is all relevant to the current life. i see myself as a VERY happy person... until i am in the company of certain other people and i am TRYING to do something about it. that is not self made misery and i am NOT a miserable person.

i am simply stating that if everything has so much purpose, then why do i see such purposeless deeds manifest in the actions of people who for all we know... would make a much better tree?

that way they cannot project their will unto others, like murderers who take lives.

some things simply DID NOT have to be.

Can you not just concede to the definition of "needless".... because the concept very much exists!

If the concept exists, then surely... some things are truly needless. how could it be any other way?

YES... i can fully encapsulate the notion of the full spectrum, i just do not think that those words are a good way to inspire anyone to a more adjusted state.

if someone is upset... you say? "no, all is perfect"..... then so was their opinion and emotion that lead them to the state of being upset. this is NOT a good way to say it in my opinion. Why? because it sounds like you think you have an authority to insist upon something that in this constant fluctuating duality *it just might be wrong*

why can't you instead say, "try to see the upside, the benefit to this problem, the chance it could manifest for you"

seriously, you think i cannot conceive of such a thing? i do it every day. please do not dumb me down that way.

i think your words are sterile and maybe lethargically untailored to the individual you speak to.

Special thanks go to all the ''Namasties'' for putting the thread on the ATS video recap. Good job, dear friends!

the self is all, and it is about mind control. To control ones mind is the begining, and the end is liberation of spirit, joyousness of knowing the Self is pure and undiluted.

The Self, infinite and immortal, stands as the witness to all actions, the consciousness beyond the body, but that which moves the body. We are not body but soul. How could we be body when we move body? The joy of the self abides, it is the same essence in all things, it is everything. Those who see separate existence are deluded, those who see all as one are enlightened. So as it was with the ancients, so it is now.

No.
Just people exercising basic phychology in 'belonging'.

Akushla

Hi OP

I am of the love and light variety add some balance and the picture of me is complete except I would like to answer some of your statements above as the individual I am rather than a person belonging to a group label.

Who are these forces that manipulate 'us'?
I do tend to walk away from discussion that i see are unnecessary or lead to nothing constructive. I am a very practical person and If i do not see that a discussion is more than a competition in who can seem more right or wrong then I will opt out. (i have no need to be right or receive insults for having been wrong) If however the discussion is based in wanting to learn (this goes both ways) or simply just sharing ideas even if opposing I am more than willing to participate and state my case. However what I will not do is judge you for believing a certain thing or not. I simply see people for who they are as they are at any given time. I am more interested in why you think a certain way than if what you think is 'right' or 'wrong'. Your process getting to a conclusion is what interests me. I am not interested in convincing anyone that my way of thinking is 'better' than.... to me it seem kindergardenish when it comes to philosophy at least. Of course I have opinions on things that directly affect reality.

As for the negativity. People have a right to chose what is let into their sphere. Personally I avoid negativity that is unnecessary. Rudeness, condesending language, threatening behaviour and otherwise personal remarks in the context of philosophical/scientific or other discussion is not something I will allow in my sphere. I will opt to walk away, which i think I have a right to do. As do you.

I have no automatic group thinking as far as I know. I agree where my mind has come to the conclusion that, based on its understanding, there is something to agree too and will disagree where it sees fit also.

I do agree with you that many people in general feel the need to belong to groups so they label them selves a thing and adopt a whole complete set of language, mannerisms, ideals and separatism to suit. I do not or at least try not to do so. Mainly because I think too much to let someone else do it for me ;P

Yes I agree there is alot of people adopting philosophies that they do not understand and i think this runs across board and is true for all religions/philosophies or life styles. People want to feel part of a group. So some people who use love and light might not actually have a philosophy attached to it other than it sounds better than amen or hello and goodbye. I think the difference lies in the people not the philosophy. Label yourself what ever you like your actions are always going to be a reflection of your understanding of the world regardless.

Anyways just my thoughts on your post and nor here nor there in any case my point might have been to say not everyone who uses a certain set of words are the same....

Love, light and balance
(What I feel, what I see, how i try to be)

Originally posted by BlackSatinDancer
i find it very unusual that you mentioned walking across a tile floor. everyone loves to walk across a nice tile floor. It's good to be able to have such luxuries in life especially when I, myself, decided to redo the floor of my last rental and everything got so messed up for me, including losing my job and being made to feel fear on top of fear from people breaking into my house to people approaching me in public.

I was actually referring to your initial wording that described "being a tile" as a negative. I never doubted your appreciation for tiles from your vantage point, nor did I assume you do or don't get to enjoy the tiles.

The tile is also you... and you have a desire to enjoy them but feel others are getting to enjoy them instead of you. Whatever form of "enjoyment"... it is us putting our preferences upon the tile and then expecting the tile to accept whatever interactions we put upon it.

This is not to say we shouldn't walk upon tiles... but coming from the "all are one"... the way we think about tiles reflects the way we will think about ourselves when we see others or our self as a tile. If a tile is something that is "below" you, then you aren't truly loving the full scope of the experience of walking upon a tile... being both the walker and the walked upon.

Either the tile "loves" being walked on, cracked, admired, had poop smeared on it, or it hates it, or it has no sensation at all and is unaware of being a tile. Whether it does any of those is entirely dictated by our own internal judgments. So long as we keep our mind focused on being EITHER the tile OR the walker rather than identifying with the total experience of tile + walker in all circumstances... then we continue to be like a wheel which says it wants to go somewhere, but wants to do so with every point always at the top.

This is not saying you should "accept being a tile and stay there"... it's expanding the vantage point of the nature of our real relationship between each other.

Originally posted by UnlimitedSky

Quit a lot of replies in this thread attempt to make a distinction between 'spiritual' people and the rest.

How can that be? We are all spiritual beings. That stuff that runs through your body, that magical energy that keeps your blood pumping, your lungs breathing and your senses sensing -that energy- is spirit. If you are not a spiritual being then you are a corps.

Take that magic current (spirit) out of the body and you can kiss it goodbey...

Whether you choose to immerse yourself into the material word, and see yourself as your body or whether you actually work on your spirit energy in order to grow towards that brilliance which lies latent within you, your spirituality is always moving. Moving either forward or backward. Whether you are aware of it or not. It just is.

So, to those that deem themselves corpses, non spiritual humans, your skulls and bones do not intrigue us.

Even those 'Namaste' (Humbly Hello) people who may not have the perfect answer or are appearing conceited or whatever judgement you make on them, that 'guru' you were talking about, they are all actively aware of the magic stuff, that electric current that makes the difference between being human and being a corpse, and in their own way, they are trying to move forward. What is more important? The desire to grow? Or not doing it at all because you cannot get it perfect?

Even if their spirituality seems superficial or flawed, the actions and desire to improve will eventually trigger the depth. It is like the chicken and the egg. Even if the actions of attending meetings, practicing meditation, etc, are not yet deeply sincere, eventually the feelings will catch up and be shaped by their devotion to self improvement.

Why not just be humble and be quiet when you think you know better than the 'Namaste/Humble Hello' crowd? Maybe you do know better, but why give your ego wings by demonstrating it in a crowd? And this, my friend, does not show knowing any better. (Those that know, do not need to advertise it.)

Spritual progress is the ONLY thing that will stay with you beyond the grave. It is more sure than taxes.

So what if we are not on the same rung of the spiritual ladder, life is not a competition!

I feel like this is a valuable reply worth reposting.
Love and light?