The ''Namaste'' Crowd - Another Mind Control Layer?

Originally posted by subfab
Two comments:
First only the most ruthless survive. One who will lie, cheat and steal to survive will make it in any society.

Please, this is not 'Animal Planet' here. I would say it's been a very long time since someone has died from not being enough of a horrible old bastard.

Don’t believe me? Look around you when you are at work. Who gets the better raises? Who seems to be immune to all accountability?

If by 'ruthless' you mean people who toe the company line and kiss a lot of ass then I'd agree, otherwise remind me not to go for a job where you work.

Second, it's possible that the "Namaste crowd" will be the next millennium’s Christianity.

Care to explain.......?!?!?

reply to post by chr0naut


You do realize that you and the two people you agreed with are lumping a lot of very different kinds of people together in one group.

And ALL OF THEM are backstabbers?

LOL. That is ridiculous and ignorant.

I suggest you all start proving your claims. I know "light and love" people from all different religions, and some of them are truly amazing people.

Backstabbers know nothing of love, so technically, you're not even attacking the people you set out to attack. You're just attacking morons. No need for such.

Originally posted by jimbo999
reply to post by survivaloftheslickest

 

Well said! I have been saying the same things for years. I have several friends who have become involved in these New Age cult-like movements. Your description of their reactions to any kind questioning or attempts at trying to interject some real-world logic into a conversation is classic. It's kind of scary really how a persons mind can be shut down with a dollop of New Age gobbledy-gook, a spoon-full of psuedo-science, mixed with a liberal pinch of misunderstood ancient religious philosophy.

I'm not sure which is worse really: extremist Muslims, Christian fundamentalists, or New Age crazies. It must be wonderful to fantasize your life away - but one day one has to wake up and deal with the real world - with all it's inherent evils AND natural beauty. Warts and all....

Well said by BOTH of you, but I think you also realize:
You waste your time in any reasoning with them. It usually turns into an argument.
They just have to experience the ultimate ramifications of all mind control cult subscription.
It is no different than the "Mindspring" debocle in the 80's and early 90's (they should read up on it).
Once they lose a job over it, wind up in a divorce, start losing the friendship of those they trusted, and a myriad of other maladies.... only then will they realize the cost of living some one else's invention. Its a time heal, sad as it is.

Originally posted by chr0naut
reply to post by justsaying

 

Yeah, I agree with "survivaloftheslickest", acceptance of what is obviously not true, is a truly dangerous path.

Yet so many seem to follow it because "someone who knows" mouths "niceness" words.

"Love and light", but they wouldn't go out of their way pee on someone if they were on fire.

edit on 30/12/2011 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)

I would say anyone blindly following a hypocrite is asking for trouble. This is why I am having so many issues with this thread.

Originally posted by chr0naut

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by chr0naut

 

The world is already broken but that doesn't matter because I am eternal.

How utterly tedious for you.

If all you can do is mock the thread? Just leave it?

reply to post by chr0naut


www.bartleby.com...

I was intensely conscious of it; I felt it; I felt the presence of the immense powers of the universe; I felt out into the depths of the ether. So intensely conscious of the sun, the sky, the limitless space, I felt too in the midst of eternity then, in the midst of the supernatural, among the immortal, and the greatness of the material realised the spirit. By these I saw my soul; by these I knew the supernatural to be more intensely real than the sun. I touched the supernatural, the immortal, there that moment.

Richard Jefferies

I felt that once, just walking out my front door I sensed the magic of being a being on a planet within the universe.

After years of studying many spiritual paths, I came upon this and it summed it up for me.

From ‘The Ancient Sage’
By Alfred, Lord Tennyson (1809–1892)

IF thou would’st hear the Nameless, and wilt dive
Into the Temple-cave of thine own self,
There, brooding by the central altar, thou
May’st haply learn the Nameless hath a voice,
By which thou wilt abide, if thou be wise,
As if thou knewest, tho’ thou canst not know;
For Knowledge is the swallow on the lake
That sees and stirs the surface-shadow there
But never yet hath dipt into the abysm,
The Abysm of all Abysms, beneath, within
The blue of sky and sea, the green of earth,
And in the million-millionth of a grain
Which cleft and cleft again for evermore,
And ever vanishing, never vanishes,
To me, my son, more mystic than myself,
Or even than the Nameless is to me.
And when thou sendest thy free soul thro’ heaven,
Nor understandest bound nor boundlessness,
Thou seest the Nameless of the hundred names.
And if the Nameless should withdraw from all
Thy frailty counts most real, all thy world
Might vanish like thy shadow in the dark.

‘And since—from when this earth began—
The Nameless never came
Among us, never spake with man,
And never named the Name’—

Thou canst not prove the Nameless, O my son,
Nor canst thou prove the world thou movest in,
Thou canst not prove that thou art body alone,
Nor canst thou prove that thou art spirit alone,
Nor canst thou prove that thou art both in one:
Thou canst not prove thou art immortal, no
Nor yet that thou art mortal—nay my son,
Thou canst not prove that I, who speak with thee,
Am not thyself in converse with thyself,
For nothing worthy proving can be proven,
Nor yet disproven: wherefore thou be wise,
Cleave ever to the sunnier side of doubt,
And cling to Faith beyond the forms of Faith
She reels not in the storm of warring words,
She brightens at the clash of ‘Yes’ and ‘No’,
She sees the Best that glimmers thro’ the Worst,
She feels the Sun is hid but for a night,
She spies the summer thro’ the winter bud,
She tastes the fruit before the blossom falls,
She hears the lark within the songless egg,

"She finds the fountain where they wail’d ‘Mirage’!"


Mysticism is incommunicable to those that have not experienced it, "the flight of the alone to the alone."
Plotinus

Originally posted by seaside sky
Thank you for starting this thread! I've thought exactly the same thing.

I'm inclined towards a sort of paganism myself, but my philosophy rejects dogma in any form, and I'm a loner, not a joiner. So many of the New Age "namaste" people frequent the same sort of vegetarian hangouts and occult shops I do. We have much in common, and most all of them are really sweet.

Sweet- but pitifully naive and they have the same sort of brainwashed haze in their eyes that you see throughout society.

But what really creeped me out was that I discovered a very strong globalist "sheeple" message in some of the "white light and foregiveness" literature. Not all- the occult/New Age world is very diverse and some of the most clearheaded authors and philosophers are classified in this genre. But there is no doubt that at least some segments of the New Age community have been thoroughly co-opted by our "friends" from the New World Order.

A very disturbing example may be found in Erwin Lazlo- embraced heartily by some of the Namasties, who seems to me to be quite an evil creature of the NWO Orwellians, yet is viewed by many as a sort of kindhearted optimistic prophet of the coming golden age of global peace and awakening.

Bulls**t , I say- I'm no Utopian.

The NWO has co-opted virtually every segment of society that longs for peaceful transitions- freedom, justice, respect for ecology, etc. all happening painlessly through some sort of osmosis and the benevolent guiding hand of ascended masters.

Bulls**t I say again- Utopianism in all its forms may well be the most destructive human concept.

okay, good, finally after all these pages, I found out from this post who is being talked about and why there is a concern about them. Seriously I didn't know if you all were talking about Buddhists, Reiki practitioners, pacifistic Christians, vegans, Georgette from the Mary Tyler Moore Show or Rose from Golden Girls or the Amish or all of the above. I'm being a bit cheeky here but there were several posts asking precisely what people fit the OP's off the cuff designation of the Namaste crowd and there were very few answers that hit with as much clarity and precision as this one. Amd very few that explained why this movement or mindset is unnerving to some without sounding very grumpy and grinchy about it all.

Yes, this is an answer I can appreciate. I am a follower of Christ and take to heart all the bits about loving my fellow man and having good stewardship over God's creation. As a Christian I also appreciate Christ warning us to think and have the sharp mind of a serpent but use our wits for good aims. And while he did tell us to turn the other cheek, he also reminded us to think of context and not cast our pearls before swine. While I won't judge my fellow man's sins, I'm certainly not going to stand by and let some thug harm my family. I'll just help the thug meet the real judge a bit early than he might otherwise have done if he hadn't gone after my loved ones. Turning the other cheek was an admonition given about a particular context and not advice to drop all common sense instincts toward self preservation and self defense.

I do worry that many very good and valid movements throughout history from civil rights to women's rights to peace movements have indeed been somehow hijacked or infiltrated to steer us toward the eventuality of a New World Order, especially when warnings about a New World Order have been given and prophesied in the texts of my particular religious faith. I can certainly, then, appreciate a concern about this particular movement. I just wish the concern had been more clearly stated and discussed several pages earlier.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Sadly, this poem exceeds the word limit of ATS posts.

A link may best be in order: Tennyson, The Ancient Sage

Beautiful, thanks

Originally posted by chr0naut
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

Sadly, this poem exceeds the word limit of ATS posts.

A link may best be in order: Tennyson, The Ancient Sage

Beautiful, thanks

edit on 30/12/2011 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)

Welcome,

I added a link, thanks

Originally posted by survivaloftheslickest
You probably noticed it there are more and more cases of people involved in ''love and light'' philosophy, telling everyone how good they are, etc. The problem is, they seem to be incredibly naive individuals, manipulated by forces they do not really understand.

In the most general sense, you are right, in accordance with my own observations.

Whenever anyone wants to challenge them or discuss something of practical merit, they shut down and/or resort to passing judgment on others they view as ''less developed'' or ''those who still have not found the light''.

I have also run into this. I actually had a woman in a so-called "discussion" group literally go "Naaaanaaanaaa I can't hear you! I'm not listening to that negativity!"

The principle of equality is actually a fascist view of the world with a rosy face attached to it.

I have to disagree here. The actual principle behind Namaste or Equality is not the principle that these new-age twinkies are operating under. To associate them with that principle is to denigrate that principle. I operate under full liability and responsibility, and that includes equality. When one, as a "lightworker" judges one kind of experience as "good" and another as "bad", one has left the rez of equanimity and started sucking the comforting teat of ego-identity.

You cannot discuss certain issues, because they are ''too negative'', everyone is ''equal'', we do not eat meat, etc..

Those are all appeals to ego-identity, in which the love-n-light fuzzybunnies are stuck.

not only does it seem dystopian, it also presents itself as another example of ''group-think'', the mindset which seriously limits one's horizons, leading to creation of rather dull people devoid of any passion. The only difference is, they will throw a rose at you rather than beat you. The mindset is still the same.

Agreed. But I will tell you here in front of everyone that true equanimity leaves no room for good or evil. Or, maybe, accepting everything that exists AS good. Those who feel the need to shield themselves or others from this "cold, dark world" are only shielding themselves from the responsibility for their experience. Pain and suffering will increase until responsibility is assumed. When I accepted responsibility not only for the things I have done, but for all the things I have had happen TO me, I immediately saw through the nonsense about good and evil. Every experience happens only by consent. There is no forcing unpleasantness on the Infinite. The Infinite seeks to explore its infinite possibilities, and thus has, in many of its incarnations, decided to experience horrors and pain. This is not evil, this is what an infinite being does with eternity. If someone out there has a problem with that, it's YOUR problem, not the world's, and certainly not "God's". I chose my pain. My experience has borne this out, again and again. And, if I, normal human being that I am, am powerful enough to choose pain or no pain, then YOU are too! (that's for you fuzzybunnies out there) Just because you can't look back before your birth to see the contract doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Originally posted by survivaloftheslickest
Whenever anyone wants to challenge them or discuss something of practical merit, they shut down and/or resort to passing judgment on others they view as ''less developed'' or ''those who still have not found the light''. The principle of equality is actually a fascist view of the world with a rosy face attached to it. You cannot discuss certain issues, because they are ''too negative'', everyone is ''equal'', we do not eat meat, etc.. not only does it seem dystopian, it also presents itself as another example of ''group-think'', the mindset which seriously limits one's horizons, leading to creation of rather dull people devoid of any passion. The only difference is, they will throw a rose at you rather than beat you. The mindset is still the same.

I'll have to disagree.. People can subscribe to being positive and such philosophies, but the other things you associate with these people, i.e. keeping the wool pulled over their eyes, not discussing certain issues, not having any passion (???) etc., sounds like hasty generalizations.. I've seen many others on this forum who I assume share some of these beliefs, but are willing to discuss a variety of things in depth.

Originally posted by Romekje

Originally posted by chr0naut

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by chr0naut

 

The world is already broken but that doesn't matter because I am eternal.

How utterly tedious for you.

If all you can do is mock the thread? Just leave it?

Sure, because humor (and especially sarcasm) is an invalid means of human expression.

reply to post by SheeplFlavoredAgain


I am a follower of Christ teachings as well, but you should know that Christianity was deeply influenced by Neoplatonism and philosophy.

Originally posted by applesthateatpeople
reply to post by chr0naut

 

...
I suggest you all start proving your claims. I know "light and love" people from all different religions, and some of them are truly amazing people.
...

My claim is that "new age" type "spirituality" is ineffective in actually achieving anything significant.

As proof, I hold up all of human history looking for a single disproof of my claim. Who, solely by meditation and spiritual intuition, has advanced our species in any significant way?

as a compassionate, caring man who is directly involved in the "love and light" community in many ways - through work as a Reiki Master and Psychologist - I refuse to ever sign a letter "Love and Light". I think ANY label can be a limiting one and being known for that particular statement does have a connotation to it.

However, I do see that many people need community; having a positive association such as Love and Light is a heckuva lot better than the I screwed over the world to own a $200,000 car club in my opinion.

Originally posted by chr0naut

Originally posted by applesthateatpeople
reply to post by chr0naut

 

...
I suggest you all start proving your claims. I know "light and love" people from all different religions, and some of them are truly amazing people.
...

My claim is that "new age" type "spirituality" is ineffective in actually achieving anything significant.

As proof, I hold up all of human history looking for a single disproof of my claim. Who, solely by meditation and spiritual intuition, has advanced our species in any significant way?

you, chr0naut, wouldn't have a clue how to measure it.... maybe someday

Originally posted by survivaloftheslickest
You probably noticed it there are more and more cases of people involved in ''love and light'' philosophy, telling everyone how good they are, etc. The problem is, they seem to be incredibly naive individuals, manipulated by forces they do not really understand. Whenever anyone wants to challenge them or discuss something of practical merit, they shut down and/or resort to passing judgment on others they view as ''less developed'' or ''those who still have not found the light''. The principle of equality is actually a fascist view of the world with a rosy face attached to it. You cannot discuss certain issues, because they are ''too negative'', everyone is ''equal'', we do not eat meat, etc.. not only does it seem dystopian, it also presents itself as another example of ''group-think'', the mindset which seriously limits one's horizons, leading to creation of rather dull people devoid of any passion. The only difference is, they will throw a rose at you rather than beat you. The mindset is still the same.

Depends how you look at it. Sure some of the stuff they spout is fairly ignorant, but they mean well in a genuine sense. So I try not to take it out on them.

You just have to realize that most of them are just perpetual children. As long as you don't need to rely on anything factual or rational from them, and as long as they stay out of the realm of the factual and rational, I have no issue with them.

Because everyone is equal in a spiritual sense. All our perspectives are equal in the sense of their individual uniqueness.

As I said before though, when it comes to matter's of fact, they tend to be far removed from reality. So just view them as the children they act like.

reply to post by seamus

Those are all appeals to ego-identity, in which the love-n-light fuzzybunnies are stuck.

As a devout christian born and bred, I was drawn into the new age movement because of all the books on love, I never was a member of any group but did learn Reiki, but I also did laying on of hands in church.

I don't regret anything I have experienced, every experience teaches me more about myself and we humans,

but yea,

Originally posted by Thermo Klein

Originally posted by chr0naut

Originally posted by applesthateatpeople
reply to post by chr0naut

 

...
I suggest you all start proving your claims. I know "light and love" people from all different religions, and some of them are truly amazing people.
...

My claim is that "new age" type "spirituality" is ineffective in actually achieving anything significant.

As proof, I hold up all of human history looking for a single disproof of my claim. Who, solely by meditation and spiritual intuition, has advanced our species in any significant way?

you, chr0naut, wouldn't have a clue how to measure it.... maybe someday

That's true. What units do you measure lies in?

Chakras?

Vibrations?

I've met "love and light" people who practice what they preach, refrain from judgment, and really do just want the world to be a brighter, more pleasant place than it probably really is. And can I really begrudge them that? Oh no. They want to love people and be happier.

On the other hand, I've also met "love and light" people who when challenged or when in a disagreement will go claws out and attack others, often in an incredibly condescending manner. Same as any spiritual or religious belief system or philosophy (including atheism and agnosticism for that matter): there are kind hearted, intellectually honest ones, and there are angry, know-it-all zealots. That doesn’t tell me as much about any individual belief system as it does about human beings in general, though. In any group, anywhere, of any kind, you will find both sorts of humans.

So ultimately I can only repeat what I said in the "is Christianity brainwashing?" thread.

In my opinion, we all lie to ourselves. All of us. To varying degrees, but constantly and inescapably. Our delusions are persistent and insidious. Cognitive science and generative psychology tell us that everything from free will to our perception of time to our sense of self may be illusory for all we really know. Quantum mechanics tells us that everything we perceive around us is an extrapolation of the information in coherence before us. Cognitive dissonance tells us that even our very memories are not accurate representations of events we perceive as central to our personalities and identities. Secular and religious, atheist and agnostic alike, we all deceive ourselves in my experience.

So on that basis, I do not begrudge people their religious beliefs. I'm an agnostic skeptic myself, but if someone wants to believe what a holy book tells them and base their life and actions on that, how can I judge them as being any more deluded than I am in my insistence that I'm "real," have free will, that reality exists even remotely consistent with what my eyes tell me, or that trying to be a loving compassionate being really even matters at all (because honestly for all I know, it doesn't)? Or if I reject all such assumptions and try to be wholly objective, concluding nihilistically that nothing matters (which I don't, because as I said, I'm agnostic, but for the sake of discussion suppose hypothetically that I do,) how can I then care enough (when ostensibly "nothing matters") to take issue with what someone believes?

In my opinion, I can't. So hence, in either case, I choose tolerance.