Is Christianity Really Brainwashing?

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posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:11 AM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 




not the will of Christ


Well there lays your problem. If your not serving Christ you are not serving the father. Jesus and the Father are one and equal to each other.


If that is so, why did he specifically say that "those who follow the will of my Father"? Why did he not say "those who follow MY will".

Why, when he prayed to God (while prostrating, like I DO EVERY DAY) in the Garden of Gethsemane did he say "not MY will but YOUR will be done". If they are one and the same - why not say "hey, dude, MY WILL BE DONE!". For that matter, why pray at all? To whom was he praying, if he is God? Was he praying to himself? "No, to the Father" you will answer - then does that mean Jesus (God) is praying to Father (God)? Is that NOT praying to himself?

You see, as I have said in another post, christians have made such a mess out of the simple PURE religion of all the prophets (Worship GOD alone, Jesus said "OUR God" means HIS God, which means he HAS A GOD, which means he cannot BE GOD) that now, the more they try to explain these things the worse it gets. It's a vicious circle - devoid of logic.




posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:12 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by dilly1

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by dilly1
 



Nothing to add about the public school part ? No?



Oh, sorry. Yes, I could have said public school.

Feel better now?


Yes actually, I got you to say sorry.



Well, sorry I didn't say sorry earlier in the thread. I like making people happy!!!


Lol!!! Your my kind of kind of Christian.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:13 AM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by sacgamer25
 




If you understand that you were saved by Grace then you understand that you did nothing to deserve being saved.


That's not true, I understand them both together. I'm a wretched sinner that is not deserving of salvation but through the grace and love of Jesus he gave me the gift of life.



When you tell someone else that they are going to hell you take a place of righteousness.


Yes that is true God is the Judge, but we can also warn sinners of the reality of hell that if there not saved by Jesus Christ then that is there destination. We are also told we shall know them by there fruits.


I see what the issue is here. You truly don't understand what you do when you tell someone that they will go to hell. Let me clear up a few things for you.

You do not know for certain of anyone’s salvation other than your own, no matter what you have been taught.
The second thing is, where I hope that I might show you a better way, one that leads to loving your enemy. If I warn someone about hell I only teach them about fear. So instead of warning everyone about hell say I will pray for you. Both believers and non believers know that if someone prays for them it is one of the most loving things anyone can do.

You can continue to believe whatever interpretation of scripture you would like but you must learn how to love your enemies.

Do you see in this thread how much telling people they are going to hell hurts them. If each time someone disagreed with you if you simply say “I believe that bible is the truth and that Christ is the Son of the only living God.” Then you followed up with I pray for you that someday you may know the love that lives in me, that you now have perfectly followed the second commandment.

It is God that called you to him not you that called to God. So let God be the judge of the non believer and simply pray for them that God calls them to Grace as well.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:15 AM
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reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 


3 Questions
Which verse are you quoting?

What do you make of this:

John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

And do you understand the Trinity?



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:16 AM
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Here I am again, for the true Jesus Christ.

Please do not blame Him for what the so-called Christian church does.

Here is this humble man, Jesus Christ, the Lord, and he went through crap then and now.

Whatever the so-called church does, it is not the fault of Jesus.

So leave Jesus alone, or, better still, ask Jesus into your life. He will come in, gladly, and He will end your despair.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:18 AM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 


So one minute your a Christian and the next your a Muslim?

Do you really want to know what Jesus said about the Father?

John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If you deny Jesus as the Christ be assured you will not enter paradise.
edit on 31-12-2011 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)


Did you even READ anything I wrote?

Being "christian" means "being a follower of Christ". Being muslim means "submitting ones will to God". When I submit my will to God, I automatically follow Christ and EVERY OTHER PROPHET. Because they were ALL the same - they had ONE path - SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF GOD.

And, without going into the argument whether Jesus actually said those words (would take 68 pages) - let's assume he did say them. Does that make him God? What was he saying?

He wasn't saying anything any other prophet has not said. All the prophets IN THEIR TIME were "the way, the truth and the life".

If you want to get to God, you have to FOLLOW that prophet - he is the way, he is the truth, and he is the life.
Only so can you get to God - because they were SENT BY GOD.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:19 AM
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Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 




not the will of Christ


Well there lays your problem. If your not serving Christ you are not serving the father. Jesus and the Father are one and equal to each other.


If that is so, why did he specifically say that "those who follow the will of my Father"? Why did he not say "those who follow MY will".

Why, when he prayed to God (while prostrating, like I DO EVERY DAY) in the Garden of Gethsemane did he say "not MY will but YOUR will be done". If they are one and the same - why not say "hey, dude, MY WILL BE DONE!". For that matter, why pray at all? To whom was he praying, if he is God? Was he praying to himself? "No, to the Father" you will answer - then does that mean Jesus (God) is praying to Father (God)? Is that NOT praying to himself?

You see, as I have said in another post, christians have made such a mess out of the simple PURE religion of all the prophets (Worship GOD alone, Jesus said "OUR God" means HIS God, which means he HAS A GOD, which means he cannot BE GOD) that now, the more they try to explain these things the worse it gets. It's a vicious circle - devoid of logic.


I agree with you on this. The trinity is not something that needs to be fully understood to have complete faith. The only thing you need is to have complete faith that the truth is found in the bible. We often times try to shove our interpretations down other’s throats. If you have faith that the word of God is preserved in the bible and faith that Jesus was the son of the living God came to earth to save us then I think you have enough information. Obviously stuff like repentance of sins is necessary but we don’t really disagree much on the core message.

It is fine for us to have different interpretations as long as those interpretations don’t directly contradict other scripture. In these cases we can agree to disagree, lovingly of course.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:19 AM
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reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 



Yes, the story is true. You can watch the debates on youtube where he boasts these things, and also on youtube are videos about his episode with the prostitute later.


My point was that you asserted the story was true without providing evidence in the form of linking the story for us. That's why I said "if", it's a certainly plausible story, but I've not heard of it other than what you've stated in this thread.


I just took those examples to show the error of this false righteousness - them boasting "we are born again, Holy Spirit is in us" and stuff like that - when they have NO IDEA what they are talking about.


It sounds like that guy is very prideful. And the Holy Spirit may have been in that preacher, who knows all we have is his word. But that doesn't mean that a person who is filled with the Holy Spirit cannot choose to give occasion to engage in the lusts of the flesh. And if the story is true, (sorry), it's pretty clear the preacher ignored His guidance.


Deedat was mor humble, and he insisted on the fact that yes, men sin, but you do not need anyone to DIE FOR YOU in order for God to forgive you. You just have to ask. God listens.


That ignores the possibility that it was His plan from creation to die for and redeem a bride for Himself.


That is islam. Simple, yet effective.


Which "Islam"? You have several sides killing each other over the "correct" version. Shall I wait to see which side is the victor before converting?



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:22 AM
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reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 


Although I agree with you in some principle. Doing the will of God is the most important thing. It is only Christianity that provides the path to accomplish this. By man's own power they are incapable of following the will of God; it is only through the Holy Spirit that one can truly follow the will of God. I do not know if anyone from another religion receives the Holy Spirit but since they are not taught to expect it I would imagine that they do not. I am open to being wrong on this point as through God all things are possible.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:23 AM
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Originally posted by dilly1

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by dilly1

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by dilly1
 



Nothing to add about the public school part ? No?



Oh, sorry. Yes, I could have said public school.

Feel better now?


Yes actually, I got you to say sorry.



Well, sorry I didn't say sorry earlier in the thread. I like making people happy!!!


Lol!!! Your my kind of kind of Christian.



LOL, you're not very familiar with my posts!!! I say sorry all the time!!!!

But, I'll admit, oftentimes it's with a heavy dose of flippancy.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:25 AM
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reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 


So you believe that Jesus was a prophet and spoke directly from Him and knew exactly what the will of God was/is?



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:25 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 




You truly don't understand what you do when you tell someone that they will go to hell. Let me clear up a few things for you


I don't think you understand ether. Christ preached HELL more than he did Heaven and we are to be like Christ and are told to proclaim the gospel. HELL is apart of the gospel whether you like it or not.



You do not know for certain of anyone’s salvation other than your own, no matter what you have been taught.


Not for certain, but we can have an IDEA based on what they believe and there fruits.



You can continue to believe whatever interpretation of scripture you would like but you must learn how to love your enemies


Who are my enemies that you mention?



Do you see in this thread how much telling people they are going to hell hurts them.


Its going to hurt alot more when they are actually in Hell because they haven't heard the gospel. And FYI I don't believe I've told anyone ~"your going to hell"~ like that.



If each time someone disagreed with you if you simply say “I believe that bible is the truth and that Christ is the Son of the only living God.” Then you followed up with I pray for you that someday you may know the love that lives in me, that you now have perfectly followed the second commandment.


Speak for your self, you do not speak for me. I will continue to proclaim the gospel with hell included, as thats what the real gospel is about, saving sinners. Without hell sinners have nothing to be saved from. I am not going to preach a watered down Christianity that would not be loving at all.



It is God that called you to him not you that called to God.


Well atleast we agree on something.
edit on 31-12-2011 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:25 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 



Yes, the story is true. You can watch the debates on youtube where he boasts these things, and also on youtube are videos about his episode with the prostitute later.


My point was that you asserted the story was true without providing evidence in the form of linking the story for us. That's why I said "if", it's a certainly plausible story, but I've not heard of it other than what you've stated in this thread.


I just took those examples to show the error of this false righteousness - them boasting "we are born again, Holy Spirit is in us" and stuff like that - when they have NO IDEA what they are talking about.


It sounds like that guy is very prideful. And the Holy Spirit may have been in that preacher, who knows all we have is his word. But that doesn't mean that a person who is filled with the Holy Spirit cannot choose to give occasion to engage in the lusts of the flesh. And if the story is true, (sorry), it's pretty clear the preacher ignored His guidance.


Deedat was mor humble, and he insisted on the fact that yes, men sin, but you do not need anyone to DIE FOR YOU in order for God to forgive you. You just have to ask. God listens.


That ignores the possibility that it was His plan from creation to die for and redeem a bride for Himself.


That is islam. Simple, yet effective.


Which "Islam"? You have several sides killing each other over the "correct" version. Shall I wait to see which side is the victor before converting?


I did not want to post links about that preacher or say his name for that matter, due to the "sensitive" issue he did. But you can find it, look for debates of Ahmad Deedat with christian preachers.

And about Islam:

Take the Qur'an. Read it. One modern, and pretty well translation is the Sahih International - in that it does not use the archaic "Shakespearean" english, but rather modern english.

You see, I read the Bible. EVERY DAY. Why don't you (christians in general) read the Qur'an? Are you afraid?

Here is the link to the Qur'an translation. You can jump to any article, search for keywords, etc. Example: Search for Jesus or "Messiah". You will find a lot of verses.

quran.com...



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:29 AM
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reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 



Take the Qur'an. Read it.


I thought you guys believe/teach that the Quran can only be understood accurately in Arabic?



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:29 AM
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reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 


Jesus is not a prophet he is GOD.

John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:33 AM
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reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 



I am not going to preach a watered down Christianity that would not be loving at all.


That's the key right there, star for you!!! That's compromise of the gospel, and the preaching of the cross is offensive to those who are perishing.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:33 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 



Take the Qur'an. Read it.


I thought you guys believe/teach that the Quran can only be understood accurately in Arabic?


We "guys" ...?

That is the case with every book. No book is the same when it is translated. You simply cannot convey the message in another language as well as in the original.
But in that link I gave you, you "click" on the left on many, many translations and read a verse in parallel. So you can compare and better understand. For english alone you can choose up to 6 translations in parallel.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:34 AM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 


Jesus is not a prophet he is GOD.

John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


No, He is a Prophet, Priest, and King, but isn't limited by any of the three.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:36 AM
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Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 



Take the Qur'an. Read it.


I thought you guys believe/teach that the Quran can only be understood accurately in Arabic?


We "guys" ...?

That is the case with every book. No book is the same when it is translated. You simply cannot convey the message in another language as well as in the original.
But in that link I gave you, you "click" on the left on many, many translations and read a verse in parallel. So you can compare and better understand. For english alone you can choose up to 6 translations in parallel.


I will give you an example:

Chapter 112, verse 1:

Say, "He, Allah is One.

the word translated here as "One" is in original (arabic as well as hebrew) "AHAD".

But "Ahad" does not simply mean one. It also means UNIQUE. Indivisible. Not made of many parts. Not made of more than one person. Not equal to anything else, etc., etc.
edit on 31/12/2011 by sHuRuLuNi because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 01:37 AM
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Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 



Take the Qur'an. Read it.


I thought you guys believe/teach that the Quran can only be understood accurately in Arabic?


We "guys" ...?

That is the case with every book. No book is the same when it is translated. You simply cannot convey the message in another language as well as in the original.
But in that link I gave you, you "click" on the left on many, many translations and read a verse in parallel. So you can compare and better understand. For english alone you can choose up to 6 translations in parallel.


"You guys" as in practitioners of Islam in a collective sense, I meant no offense by that I assure you. If that was in fact offensive I apologize.

And I was being absolutely serious, I've heard from many Muslims that the Qur'an can only be truly understood in Arabic. Is this what you believe or not?





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