If 911 is viewed as a crime instead of a terrorist attack, it becomes clear..., page 2

Originally posted by TupacShakur
reply to post by CaptChaos

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Looked at as a crime, there are some serious red flags. For one, the destruction of evidence. Most of the steel was carted away and shipped off to China as soon as possible. I understand they wouldn't want to just leave a destroyed skyscraped laying there for years, but melting down the steel and literally destroying what would be chemical evidence of explosives is a huge indication that members of the government had something to hide.

From what little steel there is, some of it was once molten, others have evidence of sulfidation which could be accomplished by thermite-like cutting charges.

The majority of the physical evidence available to us is on the Fresh Kills Landfill on Staten Island. It's 15 to 20 feet deep and covers about 40 acres. A real investigation will test this debris for residue.

The investigation/cover-up ignored the first loads, many tons were buried unsorted. Then an attempt was made to search through the debris by raking it. Finally a roller and conveyor system was set up. The debris was sorted by size through the rollers and passed onto conveyors. Investigators searched for human remains, personal effects and evidence among the debris on the conveyors.

The investigators repeatedly asked for the conveyors to be slowed down, they were slowed down for a while then speeded back up. At the end of the process it was decided the missing human remains must be in the debris less than 1/4 inch. This debris, known as the 'fines', covered approximately one acre. The victims families were told the fines would be moved to a respectful grave site. Instead they were suddenly bulldozed over the rest of the debris. wtcfamiliesforproperburial have a strong interest in this.

The debris wasn't treated as evidence, it was searched for evidence. Basic misdirection. It seems those giving the orders wanted the evidence below ground as quickly as possible. It's still there waiting to be examined.

Spooks within the Truth Movement spread the idea that the steel was nearly all recycled therefore it can't be tested. NIST say they didn't test the steel but fail to mention the rest of the debris. It's all misdirection, they don't want us to test the Fresh Kills debris.

The quickest way to end this whole controversy is a thorough examination of the Fresh Kills evidence by numerous independent investigative teams. The actions taken worldwide in the name of 9/11 give all of us an interest in this issue.

Originally posted by comprehension
reply to post by nh_ee

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heh...isn't that like asking the SS to investigate the Reichstag fire?

Or the Warren commision to investigate the JFK hit..
2nd line. thanks.

reply to post by CaptChaos

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I am afraid your post is just a collection of old truther stuff which has been de-bunked over and over.

For example, we keep hearing about how a specific part of the Pentagon was targetted in order to destroy all evidence of missing trillions but all this indicates is a sloppy disinclination to actually find out the truth.

The only Pentagon casualties engaged in accounting on 9/11 were Army accountants and bookeepers working on Army statements for FY 2001. You only have to look at the March 2002 report by the Inspector-General of the DoD :-

www.dodig.mil...

If you scroll down to the first para under "Backgound" you will see this :- " The Army did not prepare FY 2001 General Fund Financial Statements due to the loss of financial management personnel during the Sept 11 terrorist attack. Because the army did not prepare FY 2001 financial statements, an audit was not performed. However, the Army financial information was included in the DoD FY 2001 Agency-Wide Financial Statements."

So, the truth is that the only loss due to the 9/11 attack was of of discrete stand alone financial statements for the Army for FY 2001. No evidence was completely destroyed because the information was contained anyway in the Agency-wide statements.

Btw, I would suggest to you that the Capitol was very likely the target of UA 93.

reply to post by Alfie1

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Plus it would be hard enough to secretly plan the Pentagon attack let alone add in a couple of extra buildings in NYC. All to hide military accounting?????

reply to post by CaptChaos

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If the investigation were conducted like a normal police investigation, it looks very different. If it were a RICO case, the question qui bono or who benefits is the first way to point fingers towards the guilty parties.

And if were treated like a case of mass murder, which it was, then motivation is only an interesting foot note. The minds of mass murders do not work on a rational basis therefore motivation is irrelevant.

reply to post by TupacShakur

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I think, or atleast hope, you misunderstood my question about "who would be harmed by a criminal investigation ?"

I would think the American people could only have been helped had such an investigation taken place before we were rushed into war.

Those who were involved in the planning and execution of the events of Sept. 11, 2001 are the only ones who should, even now, be against a through criminal investigation. Along with the prosecution of those involved.

reply to post by hooper

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The discussion of motive would be lost on most people.

Those who were involved in these events could have no reasonable defense for these acts.

I would just like to see a quick and just trial. Then let the guilty stretch some rope.

reply to post by hdutton

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The discussion of motive would be lost on most people.

I don't know about lost - just not relevant as they are mass murderers

Those who were involved in these events could have no reasonable defense for these acts.

They didn't.

I would just like to see a quick and just trial. Then let the guilty stretch some rope.

Most are already dead - the 19 suicidal hijackers. Then there's OBL. He's fish food now.

No wait, you think someone in our government pulled this off - never mind.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by hdutton

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The discussion of motive would be lost on most people.

I don't know about lost - just not relevant as they are mass murderers

Those who were involved in these events could have no reasonable defense for these acts.

They didn't.

I would just like to see a quick and just trial. Then let the guilty stretch some rope.

Most are already dead - the 19 suicidal hijackers. Then there's OBL. He's fish food now.

No wait, you think someone in our government pulled this off - never mind.

I must admit that I do not know, niether do I really care, who was involved in this mass murder of U S citizens.

If it were only those you mentioned, then OK. Just prove it was ONLY them.

This is what a criminal investigation would be for.

If there were more people, or governments, we should find them out and bring them to justice.

As I see things; either these were the luckiest planners, can't say conspiracy, in the history of planning attacks, or they had some degree of "inside" information and/or assistance.

Either way we, the American people, have a right to know. I also feel that anyone who would hinder such an investigation "could" be accussed of obstruction of justice. In this I don't care if it is my friends, my family, or my government.

Due to the nature of the story, and the accompanying secrecy, details and “mainstream” source material are understandably hard to find, giving mainstream media reason to discount the story. None the less, the revelations produced by Heidner expose a motive that makes much more sense than the B-movie script version we are all familiar with. When 911 is investigated as a crime, and not an act of terrorism, what can we surmise by examining what was accomplished? The main goals appear to have been intended to at least:

1. Destroy evidence of institutional lawlessness in government, finance, military and business.
2. Silence investigations into the above.
3. Demolish the white elephants known as the Twin Towers.
4. Provide pretext for world war and hegemony in the guise of the Global War on Terrorism.
5. Allow the continuation of a culture of plunder and corruption

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by CaptChaos

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that kind of 'coincidences'... just might get someone to investigate all the frequencies of 'homing devices'

To see if there was a transmission being sent from somewhere on those floors

i don't know if that would be possible, but there are news agencies which monitor all the emergency bands to find out about police calls, EMTs, firetrucks etc
The NSA, FBI probably also monitor all sorts of transmission bands, including the frequencies used in homing devices..

with a different 'filter' on the event... we might look in the obscure directions & away from the obvious 'terror attack' scenario.


thanks

reply to post by hdutton

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I must admit that I do not know, niether do I really care, who was involved in this mass murder of U S citizens.

Well, then I guess you can really just move on then.

If it were only those you mentioned, then OK. Just prove it was ONLY them.

Well, it was them and some others. Then there's the organizational responsibility of Al Queda.

This is what a criminal investigation would be for.

And that is what is being conducted, the largest in US history.

If there were more people, or governments, we should find them out and bring them to justice.

Iran is being looked at. As well as some other terrorist groups.

As I see things; either these were the luckiest planners, can't say conspiracy, in the history of planning attacks, or they had some degree of "inside" information and/or assistance.

Well, thats your opinion. Don't know how lucky you have to be to organize a hijacking (been dozens of times successfully), learn to fly a plane into a building, buy plane tickets and get on a commercial flight. Don't really need much luck at all.

Either way we, the American people, have a right to know.

Know what? By the way, just because you think there's something to know doesn't mean there is and certainly doesn't mean someone is keeping something from you.

I also feel that anyone who would hinder such an investigation "could" be accussed of obstruction of justice.

The investigation is ongoing.

In this I don't care if it is my friends, my family, or my government.

Ok then.

reply to post by TupacShakur

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Excellent points here. I'd like to go one further. How long do you suppose it will be before doubting the 9/11 OS will be outright criminalized like was done with questioning of the Holocaust in Europe?

reply to post by hdutton

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Means motive and opportunity:

A question of motive

Project Hammer:

In 1989 President George H. W. Bush began the multi-billion dollar Project Hammer program using an investment strategy to bring about the economic destruction of the Soviet Union including the theft of the Soviet treasury, the destabilization of the ruble, funding a KGB coup against Gorbachev in August 1991 and the seizure of major energy and munitions industries in the Soviet Union. Those resources would subsequently be turned over to international bankers and corporations. On November 1, 2001, the second operative in the Bush regime, President George W. Bush, issued Executive Order 13233 on the basis of “national security” and concealed the records of past presidents, especially his father’s spurious activities during 1990 and 1991. Consequently, those records are no longer accessible to the public. [1] The Russian coup plot was discussed in June 1991 when Yeltsin visited with Bush in conjunction with his visit to the United States. On that same visit, Yeltsin met discreetly with Gerald Corrigan, the chairman of the New York Federal Reserve. [2]
Because of numerous Presidential Executive Orders, the ethically questionable Project Hammer was deemed legal. Of course, even Hitler’s acts were “lawful,” as he had manipulated the laws to accommodate his actions. Many of Reagan’s executive orders were actually authored by Vice President Bush or his legal associates, and it is possible that Project Hammer was created by Reagan’s CIA Director, William Casey, who had directed OSS operations through Alan Dulles in Europe during World War II. Prior to his OSS affiliation, Casey worked for the Board of Economic Warfare which allegedly targeted “Hitler’s economic jugular.” [3] Allen Dulles, brother of John Foster Dulles, was the Director of the CIA from 1953 to 1961. He was a senior partner at the Wall Street firm of Sullivan and Cromwell, which represented the Rockefeller Empire and other mammoth trusts, corporations and cartels.
Project Hammer was staffed with CIA operatives and others associated with the National Security apparatus. Covert channels were already in place as a result of other illegal Bush activities. Thus, it was a given (1) that the project would use secret, illegal funds for unapproved covert operations, and (2) that the American public and Congress would not be informed about the illegal actions perpetrated in foreign countries. The first objective was allegedly to crush Communism, a growing political philosophy and social movement that was initially funded by the usual group of international bankers who now supported their demise. To this end, the “Vulcans,” under George H. W. Bush, waged war against the Soviet Union. [4]

www.spingola.com...

The Word Trade Center was conceived during the euphoria of the post WWII years. Negotiations began during the “Camelot” period of the Kennedy administration; a time of growth and optimism, but by the time the construction was completed, times had changed. No one wanted it, and no one seemed to like the Port Authority much either.

When considering the history and the timing of events, as well as the nature of many of the people involved, I contend:

Minoru Yamasaki was chosen as architect because he would comply to the client’s wishes, even if their wishes didn’t seem to make sense.


Once the land was purchased and demolition began, there was no turning back, even for the builders.


The World Trade Center twin towers were never fully completed. The towers were capped without all the floors installed. From a business and construction perspective, this would make it possible to build-out floors as the space was leased, or not build them out if the space couldn’t be leased. The trusses were installed, but not all the floors. Whether the intent was to build-out all the floors later or not, the towers didn’t need all the floors installed for structural integrity.


Due to galvanic corrosion, in the mid-80’s it was decided the WTC needed to be demolished, which would have cost the Port Authority billions of dollars (many times their investment), threatening the future of their authority.


False-front companies, or real companies exaggerating their losses, comprised most, if not all of the tenants at the time of destruction.


Aside from achieving the demolition of the “white-elephants” known as the Twin Towers, the destruction of the WTC destroyed evidence and silenced investigations into institutional corruption within big business, big finance, military, and government.

letsrollforums.com...

reply to post by Alfie1

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Btw, I would suggest to you that the Capitol was very likely the target of UA 93. (Alfie 1)

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i submit that a trajectory which would top-off the Washington Monument and continue into the White House would be very possible as the two landmarks are only a short distance apart


there was chatter about a 'White Palace' on that 911 day
now, i suggested that instead of referring to the White House...the term white palace was mis-heard,
the real code word was 'white phallus' which referred to the 555' white, Washington Monument...


but maybe my imagination was running-away-with-me

reply to post by hooper

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Judging from the way you seem to have a need for specific replies to each line you address, I can't help but think if you will but continue to explain the OS for a little longer; you may begin to believe it yourself.

Over explaination, as well as over simplification, has been attributed to any number of psychological malodies.

I do hope they have a pill for it.

Originally posted by hdutton
reply to post by hooper

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Judging from the way you seem to have a need for specific replies to each line you address, I can't help but think if you will but continue to explain the OS for a little longer; you may begin to believe it yourself.

Over explaination, as well as over simplification, has been attributed to any number of psychological malodies.

I do hope they have a pill for it.

I don't understand - would you rather a non-specific response? So, I take it from your response you're residing in that hypocritical little conspiracy niche wherein you like to pretend that you're just an open-minded individual citizen who wants to have a clean investigation to get to the bottom of things, but then openly rejects every thing that has been the product of extensive investigations to date. In other words, you don't want answers, you want the "right" answers.

Please advise the forum exactly which psychological malady casuses someone to make you have the opinion that their reponses to you are too simple or too complex.

They got a pill for everything nowadays.

'Yeah, sorry 'bout that. We couldn't find a trace of any of the thousands of missing persons
(as seen on the vast and impeccably organised wall of 'missing person' flyers that so
expediently and inexplicably went up a day or two after the events (just as with the
London 2005 bombings), and the same thing with most of the contents of the buildings.
Must have been pulvarised to dust with the crushing and the force. The mysteries of life, eh?'

'Well, that or the buildings were mostly gutted beforehand in preparation for demolition,
there were no thousands of people present in the first place, and you are a liar.'

I'll take option B please bob, and put the rest down to lies and deception.

9/11 was a mass hoax with few if any real victims, most being computer generated
entities with no real existence (necessarily so in order to get so many on board. Mass fraud
is one thing, mass murder is quite another). Video and victim fakery, false
witness testimony and a complicit main stream media helped dupe the world into falling
for one of the most extravagent and financially rewarding hoaxes in history.

9/11 Hoax Cracked Open
9/11 Video Fakery Exposed

Was the type of insurance silverstein took out on the WTC of a standard type or was it of an
extra-ordinary kind, which turned out, in light of the subsequent 'official' events narrative, to maximally benefit him?

Once you grasp the fakery, everything else becomes almost obvious.

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