If 911 is viewed as a crime instead of a terrorist attack, it becomes clear...

reply to post by bjarneorn


Why do you suppose arabs had neither the means nor opportunity ? You think they have no history of aircraft hi-jacking including multiple hi-jacking ?

www.telegraph.co.uk...

reply to post by bjarneorn

The US decided it were 19 arabs, and never looked at any other scenario.

No, the US did not decide it was 19 Arabs then go looking for evidence to prove, that is truther scientific method. They looked at the evidence and concluded that it was 19 Arabs on the planes.

Even when some of those on the list, were found to be alive ... they still stuck with the same list.

They were never found to be alive. That's an oldie but goodie.

All were arabs, and muslim ... that is called "RACISM" and not crime investigation.

Uh, so if the evidence points to Arabs or Muslims we can't go after them because its racist?

A crime investigation means you have to prove 3 different points.
MEANS, MOTIVE and OPPORTUNITY

You've been watching way too much Law & Order. If I'm a prosecutor I don't have to prove motive. Means and oppurtunity are meaningless without direct evidence.

reply to post by GenRadek

Of course! When there is evidence presented that flies counter to your beliefs, slander them and say they are also part of the grand conspiracy.

No, I'm not saying that because they disagree -- I'm saying that because I thought their analysis was wrong.
Here's Rense with kind of a conspiracy theory...
I'm not sure of everything in that article -- but there are quite a few crossover relationships.

It reminds me of the STRONG ties with the CIA and Fox News. Their hit piece on ACORN and the later attempted bugging of a senators office included a guy who is suspected as a covert op. There were also a lot of strings pulled to keep these people out of jail.

Popular Mechanics also seem to have acted as stooges for the Bush administration and helped disinform the public after Katrina;
LINK. The backstory is that the Bush administration was pushing for total control in exchange for their assistance with Louisiana's governor. There were numerous reasons for the hold-up, like the Head of FEMA outsourcing the job of the evacuation to another agency (with financial ties to him of course) and unfortunately -- they delayed the rental on buses to maximize profits and so they were underwater before anyone could be driven out. -- I'm quite sure you got a different story in the press.



>> I don't hate Bush because of 9.11 or some flimsy conspiracy theory - the guy is an absolute crook and he has ALWAYS been an embezzler, a self-serving traitor, and the worst kind of silver-spooned frat boy terrorist this nation has seen.


>> I'm not usually reading "TRUTHER" sites because I can agree with you, there is an incredible lack of discipline. I was a TRUTHER however on Day 1 because for what I saw with my own eyes. The first person I know of to imagine the WTC could fall due to a Pancake Collapse that I know of was ME. My wife to be and I were touring it after the first attack but before 9/11. She asked if someone could "bring it down." And I thought for a second looking at the "bridge trussing system" and the use of outer walls to support it, and I said; "I figure if you had a couple large planes full of fuel, and you burnt out a two or more stories at one time, then if one level dropped on another, it would create a chain reaction of floors smashing into floors."

The PROBLEM with what I saw on 9/11 was the speed of it -- there wasn't any time for the energy of the top floor to destroy the one below -- it should have taken about a minute.

>> These "crime scene" things you are talking about -- it didn't happen that way. BushCo sent in its own hired group called "Controlled Demolitions" --- not the FBI. There were a lot of security around these sites, but not a good record nor treatment of the evidence. There should have been photos of where these IDs were found. There should have been more video and Black Box releases without delay -- not more than 4 years later.

There was a preponderance of evidence showing the Bush administration was informed beforehand -- not the least of which was from the Pakistani ISI -- because they were deathly afraid of the consequences if the USA might think that they had a hand in it.

>> Ignoring a few FBI agents for months leading up -- and then ON THE DAY of the event, being 100% certain it was al Qaeda. We also find that everyone of the "suspects" was already on a CIA watch list and were let in the country.


So sure, there is a lot of Truther nonsense -- but no amount of wild ass speculation changes the fact that BushCo obstructed the investigation and hamstrung the committee which formed many years later and only after a lot of criticism. It's BushCo itself that made me the most suspicious -- not the ramblings of conspiracy theorists.

reply to post by GenRadek

Wait wait wait, are you having a little reading comprehension problem? Do you know that "nearly at free fall speed" also means, "did not fall at free fall speed"? Nearly does not mean "AT" free fall speed. NO issue there.

Oh please. Demolitions don't actually fall at freefall speed, because you are using the weight of the floors above -- the PHYSICS however, of a FreeFall would require more of the mass to hit the floors below.

If you consider that each floor is collapsing without resistance -- you don't have a free-fall collapse that reaches TERMINAL VELOCITY -- each floor is falling at ZERO when the support goes. What we need to be looking for is the translation of energy. In a demolition -- the floor below is being destroyed as the one above comes down on it.

If you can see video where the collapse is nearly keeping up with the falling dust -- it's not a pancake collapse.

>> Another alternative explanation is the bridge-truss like support system. The outer curtain wall is load bearing. The PROBLEM however, is that vertical supports would need to be removed to have each floor act like it was a suspension bridge. This would also mean that the core of the building should have been left standing if the connections to the floors gave way -- so we should have seen something like a folded umbrella, with the inner part of the floors connected to the core, and the rest sloughing away.


>>>> But the point is moot. Obama has not vetoed the NDAA and this week we've seen the Republicans and Democrats work together -- quietly, to pass another bill that makes it easy to declare someone a "non-citizen" if someone in power calls them a terrorist. You become a non-citizen and immediately you are eligible for indefinite detention. In the dog-and-pony show, Mitch McConnel is jumping up and down about recess appointments after they'd been obstructing appointments for years now -- is he unaware of the very REAL abuses of power Obama and his Republican party have been coordinating on?

The Bank Collapse of 2008 had lot's of PREPARATION. The Bankruptcy Reform Act, for instance.

What is our government, which seems to work for the Federal Reserve and Wall Street, preparing for? Crime is on the wane even with economic hardships. We got "Bin Laden" -- or so we are told with brief soundbites and heroic photos. America should be safer than before 9/11 but we haven't gotten our freedom back, nor any oversight of real threats like Goldman Sachs.


9/11 just seems a stepping stone on a well coordinated slide into NeoFuedalism. If 9/11 hadn't occurred, the Patriot Act would have had to have had some other incident to justify it's existence. It was written before 9/11. It's been proven that Dick Cheney was pushing the NSA into Domestic spying BEFORE 911. The plans for the invasion of Iraq had preceded 9/11.

If 9/11 hadn't happened, we'd still have a war criminal in the White House -- and I suspect we'd still have the NDAA and Patriot Act because such laws are designed to protect the powerful from the public.

I think that so many other dirty deeds from the Bush White house have to be ignored -- and 9/11 put up on a pedestal, to think there was a real investigation.

>> The assassination of JFK and 9/11 invite conspiracy theories because there was a COVER UP. The "single shooter" didn't run off with Kennedy's brain (it went missing, probably to hide the fact that he was shot from the opposite direction). The Bush administration controlled who had access and they merely investigated themselves. Is it pubic knowledge that the White House hired the "experts" that investigated the authenticity of documents when Dan Rather accused Bush of being AWOL? LINK

It's interesting to me that Burkett, the provider of the documents from the National Guard -- claims to have burned the originals after faxing them to CBS. Reminds me of the time when Pappy Bush was accused of meeting with Iranians in France, by a man who was a long-time family friend. Then credit card records showed that he was in the US at the time -- and the press got burned.

After canning Rather, CBS got a free pass on a large controversial merger with the FCC.

We have a pattern of coverup and criminal behavior with Bush throughout his career, and his father's, and his Nazi gold-smugging grand pappy. And the investigation of 9/11 looked like the usual BushCo coverup to me.

Originally posted by Alfie1

Why do you suppose arabs had neither the means nor opportunity ? You think they have no history of aircraft hi-jacking including multiple hi-jacking ?

They have a multiple history of aircraft hi-jacking.

But you are saying "Arabs" ... the saudis? Iraq was invaded, as was Afghanistan. You are categorizing the middle-east people, using their hatred for US/Israel because of Palestine as a motive charger, without proving their means and opportunity.

The people of the middle east, are well known for their work ... but as years pass, it has become increasingly difficult for them. The hi-jacking of the 70's and early 80's no longer possible. They are also known to work in small cells, and are famous for the "self bombing" attacks.

That muslims hate Jews, and Americans, is not proof of opportonity. It's only a motive.

And besides, the blame on "Arabs" or "Muslims", as is being done in the US in general. And waging wars against the entire middle-east, is a crime against humanity. Millions of people in the middle-east have died as a result ... and you cannot blame such crimes as 9/11 on an entire race or religious community.

That is what the arguement is all about ... you hide yourselves behind "helping jews", as if "jews" are the only thing that matters. But you ignore the fact, that what is being done in the process ... is making the muslim community, into the Jews of modern times.

This, is what arguement is about ... it should a crime investigation, and an investigation to search for individuals who are to blame ... not blame it on "Arabs" ... you might just as well, replace the word "Arab" with "Jew", but you are hiding yourself behind a technical and semantic understanding of the word "Jew", and not making the "crime" a center of attention ... but "who" did it, and "against" who.

This is a "crime" ... the words "Arab", "Muslim", "Jew" or any other word, that has only the intention of catching the sheeples "emotions", should be removed. And only the "facts" should be treated, and not connected with any ethnicity ... that in itself, is a crime against humanity. It's a breech of the Geneve convention, that forbids making individuals, ethnic groups a target ...

This is absolutely fascinating, I must admit that when you look at it from this perspective the whole jigsaw of events seem to fit into place. Well done OP.

You mean when you look at the crimes of 9/11 perpetrated by Israel it all makes sense because radical Zionists wrote the PNAC treatise that said a "New Peal Harbor" was required to motivate Americans into taking miltary action around the world and that dovetailed with the "Clean Break" doctrine written by Wolfowitz and Perl for Netanyahu and called for an attack on Iraq and splitting it into three smaller countires and then to move on to Syria and Iran like they are doing?

Because, yes all of that does make sense especially when you consider the 9/11 Commission was stocked with Zionists and flunkies who white-washed the Iran / Israel / Contra conspiracy.

If you just look at the biography of the radical Zionist executive director of the 9/11 Commission, Philip Zelikow and grasp the fact that his job was to make sure that building 7, the Israeli art studetns, the Israeli moving company employees, the Israeli security company at the airports and at the buildings, the Israeli commando onboard Flight 11 were never mentioned then everything does fall in place.

Any goof can commit a crime but for the crime of the century it takes professionals and not only that it takes a team to cover it up and even though the have fooled most of the public they have not fooled true professionals and the internet allow regular people access to information the Zionist criminals never imagined possible.

Originally posted by CelestialPax
This is absolutely fascinating, I must admit that when you look at it from this perspective the whole jigsaw of events seem to fit into place. Well done OP.

Originally posted by BRAVO949
You mean when you look at the crimes of 9/11 perpetrated by Israel it all makes sense because radical Zionists wrote the PNAC treatise that said a "New Peal Harbor" was required to motivate Americans into taking miltary action around the world and that dovetailed with the "Clean Break" doctrine written by Wolfowitz and Perl for Netanyahu and called for an attack on Iraq and splitting it into three smaller countires and then to move on to Syria and Iran like they are doing?

Because, yes all of that does make sense especially when you consider the 9/11 Commission was stocked with Zionists and flunkies who white-washed the Iran / Israel / Contra conspiracy.

If you just look at the biography of the radical Zionist executive director of the 9/11 Commission, Philip Zelikow and grasp the fact that his job was to make sure that building 7, the Israeli art studetns, the Israeli moving company employees, the Israeli security company at the airports and at the buildings, the Israeli commando onboard Flight 11 were never mentioned then everything does fall in place.

Any goof can commit a crime but for the crime of the century it takes professionals and not only that it takes a team to cover it up and even though the have fooled most of the public they have not fooled true professionals and the internet allow regular people access to information the Zionist criminals never imagined possible.

Originally posted by CelestialPax
This is absolutely fascinating, I must admit that when you look at it from this perspective the whole jigsaw of events seem to fit into place. Well done OP.

Thank you. I wish I could star or flag you or whatever this site deems cool.. You are a true humanbeing. I am glad someone else can see it so clear. .

reply to post by WhereAreTheGoodguys


If you are of one mind with Bravo on this perhaps you would let me know the evidence for "the Israeli commando onboard Flight 11 " because he never has. Thanks in anticipation.

Israeli Newspaper Confirms Israeli Commando on 9/11 Flight 11


After reading the comments on this thread it seems that some Americans are yet to be convinced that the sort of people shown in the video below could not possibly carry out the crimes of September 11. 2001.

Indicting Israel for 9/11 Crimes

Thank you very much for your comment.

Originally posted by WhereAreTheGoodguys

Originally posted by BRAVO949
You mean when you look at the crimes of 9/11 perpetrated by Israel it all makes sense because radical Zionists wrote the PNAC treatise that said a "New Peal Harbor" was required to motivate Americans into taking miltary action around the world and that dovetailed with the "Clean Break" doctrine written by Wolfowitz and Perl for Netanyahu and called for an attack on Iraq and splitting it into three smaller countires and then to move on to Syria and Iran like they are doing?

Because, yes all of that does make sense especially when you consider the 9/11 Commission was stocked with Zionists and flunkies who white-washed the Iran / Israel / Contra conspiracy.

If you just look at the biography of the radical Zionist executive director of the 9/11 Commission, Philip Zelikow and grasp the fact that his job was to make sure that building 7, the Israeli art studetns, the Israeli moving company employees, the Israeli security company at the airports and at the buildings, the Israeli commando onboard Flight 11 were never mentioned then everything does fall in place.

Any goof can commit a crime but for the crime of the century it takes professionals and not only that it takes a team to cover it up and even though the have fooled most of the public they have not fooled true professionals and the internet allow regular people access to information the Zionist criminals never imagined possible.

Originally posted by CelestialPax
This is absolutely fascinating, I must admit that when you look at it from this perspective the whole jigsaw of events seem to fit into place. Well done OP.

Thank you. I wish I could star or flag you or whatever this site deems cool.. You are a true humanbeing. I am glad someone else can see it so clear. .

reply to post by BRAVO949


So it is Daniel Lewin, a distinguished computer scientist who died on flight 11, that you identify as an "Israeli Commando" ? This man ?

www.guardian.co.uk...

Lets hear your specific evidence that he was anything other than another victim.

Your disconnected and irrelevant vids just scream your complete lack of objectivity.

Where's the playgorund, Alfie?

You are free to call me names or to try to obfuscate but there is a mountain of evidence linking Israel to the crimes of 9/11.

Yes, the radical Zionists Daniel Lewin was involved in the events of Flight 11 on the day of September 11, 2001.

The conflicting reports indicate that either radical Zionist Daniel Lewin murdered another passenger either my shooting him or by stabbing him or the radical Zionist Daniel Lewin was murdered by being shot or stabbed.

There is no evidence that radical Zionist Daniel Lewin was working for the Mossad whose motto is "By way of deception we shall do war" which would make us believe that we can not trust any denial on the part of Zionists that they were not involved but we know he had been a member of an elite Israeli commando group that prides itself on the fact that they can kill anyone anywhere.

Thank you for your continued interest in investigating the Israeli connection to 9/11.

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by BRAVO949

 

So it is Daniel Lewin, a distinguished computer scientist who died on flight 11, that you identify as an "Israeli Commando" ? This man ?

www.guardian.co.uk...

Lets hear your specific evidence that he was anything other than another victim.

Your disconnected and irrelevant vids just scream your complete lack of objectivity.

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst


Oh please. Demolitions don't actually fall at freefall speed, because you are using the weight of the floors above -- the PHYSICS however, of a FreeFall would require more of the mass to hit the floors below.

So why do Truthers keep saying the buildings collapsed at freefall and that is proof of demolitions?

If you consider that each floor is collapsing without resistance -- you don't have a free-fall collapse that reaches TERMINAL VELOCITY -- each floor is falling at ZERO when the support goes. What we need to be looking for is the translation of energy. In a demolition -- the floor below is being destroyed as the one above comes down on it.

If you can see video where the collapse is nearly keeping up with the falling dust -- it's not a pancake collapse.

But in the WTC, the collapses started from top to bottom, not bottom up. So one cannot say the buildings were demo'd. Watching the videos of the WTC collapses, what do we see? We see debris that has been thrown from the collapsing area is outpacing the actual collapse. That is obvious because the debris outside the footprint is falling at actual free-fall. However, internally, the floors are collapsing at a slower pace due to resistance. But how can you claim there wasnt a pancake collapse, if the floors were actually falling on to the floor below it? Isnt that considered "pancaking"?

>> Another alternative explanation is the bridge-truss like support system. The outer curtain wall is load bearing. The PROBLEM however, is that vertical supports would need to be removed to have each floor act like it was a suspension bridge. This would also mean that the core of the building should have been left standing if the connections to the floors gave way -- so we should have seen something like a folded umbrella, with the inner part of the floors connected to the core, and the rest sloughing away.

Ok I see where you got the misinterpretation in regards to the vertical supports. The only vertical support for each floors was located at each end of the truss which was connected to the core and exterior column. The support was in the guise of a floor truss "seat" or a "tab". The top chord of the truss was bolted into the seat and that provided the entire "vertical support" for that truss segment. It was not like a steel I-beam that was bolted and welded onto the vertical beam, creating a far stronger vertical support. The truss ends were pretty much the same on both sides of the trusses and they would have just the same snapped off when the top section came down. It would not have left the core end attached. But, the cores DID survive after the exterior columns and floors came down, if you recall the "spire" and the large segment of the core of the South Tower. They then too fell.

Only Israel could have pulled off 9/11

Here is vital information that once again links Israel to the crimes of 9/11.

Listen to how sophisticated the events really were.

Clear cover-up of Israeli involvement. Government admits it at certain points.

blockbuster information

Israelhad a backdoor into the entire US telecommunications system.

Experts in the FBI, CIA and NSA know exactly who pulled off 9/11 and it was not amateurs but will be fired if they expose Israel.

Israel is the greatest threat to world peace and has damaged the United States more than any other nation in the history of the the Unitied States.

Americans - please wake up and face the facts.



The key - AMDOCS, COMVERSE, ODIGO Israeli Communications companies implicated by the US government.

reply to post by BRAVO949


So,apart from your hints that Daniel Lewin must have been involved in some wrongdoing and the fact that you choose to apply the label "radical Zionist" to him, you have absolutely nothing.

The idea of a lone jew as part of a suicidal arab enterprise can only be possible for someone absolutely desperate for some jewish involvement .

Fact is that Daniel Lewin was an extremely succesful internet entrepeneur who was flying west on business and the 9/11 Commission considered there was reason to believe he was murdered by the hi-jackers for resisting them. See para 2 here :-

usawc.org...

You are likely libelling a brave man in pursuit of your unsavoury agenda.

Jewish American Links Israel to 9/11

Please watch and listen as these two experts provide an excellent foundational explanation for why Israel is the prime suspect in the crimes of 9/11



As more time passes since 9/11 the Israeli connection becomes more and more clear.

Thank you for watching.

Originally posted by BRAVO949

Only Israel could have pulled off 9/11

Here is vital information that once again links Israel to the crimes of 9/11.

Listen to how sophisticated the events really were.

Clear cover-up of Israeli involvement. Government admits it at certain points.

blockbuster information

Israelhad a backdoor into the entire US telecommunications system.

Experts in the FBI, CIA and NSA know exactly who pulled off 9/11 and it was not amateurs but will be fired if they expose Israel.

Israel is the greatest threat to world peace and has damaged the United States more than any other nation in the history of the the Unitied States.

Americans - please wake up and face the facts.

The key - AMDOCS, COMVERSE, ODIGO Israeli Communications companies implicated by the US government.

edit on 12-1-2012 by BRAVO949 because: (no reason given)

Jawohl mein Furher !

Alfie, "brave man"? - he was a radical Zionist.

Brave from a Zionist point of view but a man who traded his country of birth, the Unitied States of America for the Zionist dictatorship known as Israel.

Is that not suspicious just in that?

His commando unit specialized in hijacking and deep cover. Hello, hello - connection, connection!

Daniel Lewin was in deep, deep cover wasn't he.

Was he given Israeli technology to claim as his own as part of his cover?

Sayeret Matkal - some say was part of the false-flag Entenbbe operation. Ehud Barak was the former head. Bibi Netanyu's brother was killed in the operation. Revenge, anyone?

Just so many facts point to Israel.

Here is proof from an Jewish American expert that the US government lies to us - why would they not lie about the Israeli involvement in 9/11?

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by BRAVO949

 

So,apart from your hints that Daniel Lewin must have been involved in some wrongdoing and the fact that you choose to apply the label "radical Zionist" to him, you have absolutely nothing.

The idea of a lone jew as part of a suicidal arab enterprise can only be possible for someone absolutely desperate for some jewish involvement .

Fact is that Daniel Lewin was an extremely succesful internet entrepeneur who was flying west on business and the 9/11 Commission considered there was reason to believe he was murdered by the hi-jackers for resisting them. See para 2 here :-

usawc.org...

You are likely libelling a brave man in pursuit of your unsavoury agenda.

Originally posted by hooper

No, the US did not decide it was 19 Arabs then go looking for evidence to prove, that is truther scientific method. They looked at the evidence and concluded that it was 19 Arabs on the planes.

Sorry for my frustration ... I apologize ...

bjarn,

Please modify your last post because it is a good one but willbe deleted because of the personal attacks.

You are right - the list of 19 came was provided immediately and the one thing all the real people had in common was that they had lost their passports at some point.

Originally posted by bjarneorn