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If 911 is viewed as a crime instead of a terrorist attack, it becomes clear...

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posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 08:06 PM
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reply to post by plague311
 





I'll stick to my rational people.


And what, pray tell, is "rational" in your world? Bombing freedom and democracy into folks the world over? That's what passes as rational in America, but if I'm wrong, I'm sure you can drum up some expert to 'splain it to the class.




posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by plague311

Originally posted by Semicollegiate
reply to post by plague311
 


The towers disintigrated at the speed of an object falling through air. Not possible by progressive collapse.


Can you please link a source? From a non CTist website? If you can I would be happy to look at it. The towers didn't fall at free fall speed. That has been proven completely false on several different sites, by several different structural engineers, demo experts, and in peer reviewed papers. I will be awaiting that link. Thanks.


Pallasades seismic only


Seismic out 100 miles

www.mgs.md.gov...

The seismic data show something vibrating the Earth about 20 seconds. The tail end is a ringing effect. The graph spikes have a pause or break at the 10 second mark which suggests the end of original impacts. I'm not a geologist however.

Math from a debunker site

www.debunking911.com...

Formulas that include air resistance for falling objects of any kind can vary quite a bit, but freefall speed is the speed in a vacuum.

edit on 31-12-2011 by Semicollegiate because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 10:35 PM
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reply to post by GenRadek
 


Not the point.

The Chairman of the Commission said that he was "hindered" by the administration and they were not allowed to investigate HOW IT HAPPENED.

The report itself is merely a bunch of paperwork, and it can only follow the narrow dictates that the administration gave it.

The REPORT itself is not important -- it's the people who WROTE IT saying it is garbage.

You've got self-avowed War Criminals that you are defending on this one little scenario of 9/11. So Bush and Cheney should be convicted of war crimes regardless of an investigation of their complicity in 9/11.

>> Oh, and happy new year!



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
reply to post by Alfie1
 


From the COMMITTEE members themselves -- read my post just above, here's a LINK

In his own words he's saying this -- it's not this little blogger's conspiracy theory.


Can't see anything in your link to the effect that the Commission was not allowed to interview various witnesses.Do you have any evidence at all or was that just your idea ?


Google Thomas Kean.

Here's a link of him referring to his own report; LINK


>> So it's not me saying the report is crap -- it's Kean and I think one or two others from the Commission.



posted on Dec, 31 2011 @ 11:35 PM
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Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst

>> So it's not me saying the report is crap -- it's Kean and I think one or two others from the Commission.


It's telling that you don't tell the whole story. You've only "quote mined" comments without the full context taken from a "truther" web site...

In spite of problem from the Administration, they were given additional funds after these comments and both Kean and Lee Hamilton co-chairmen of the Commission felt that they succeeded with the final report...

It is also of worthy note that neither of these dedicated gentlemen are "truthers." If you believe differently and want to stand by your deceptive implications why are you using comments from a traitor to make your deliberately deceptive point?


www.9-11commission.gov...



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by TupacShakur
reply to post by Kester
 


Well said, but you reminded me of another point that you touched up on. The people within the towers were literally pulverized, much like the concrete was. There were pieces of bone and body parts the size of a piece of corn and smaller. Several hundred bodies could not even be accounted for. That's because they were literally disintegrated by the explosive force of the demolition. No way gravity could turn your body into confetti. If you would get crushed, your body wouldn't turn to dust.


Looks like they were getting blasted from all directions.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by Kester

Originally posted by TupacShakur
reply to post by Kester
 


Well said, but you reminded me of another point that you touched up on. The people within the towers were literally pulverized, much like the concrete was. There were pieces of bone and body parts the size of a piece of corn and smaller. Several hundred bodies could not even be accounted for. That's because they were literally disintegrated by the explosive force of the demolition. No way gravity could turn your body into confetti. If you would get crushed, your body wouldn't turn to dust.


Looks like they were getting blasted from all directions.



Or could it possibly be that there were no 'they' present to begin with?

Hmmm...

www.cluesforum.info...



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by pshea38
Or could it possibly be that there were no 'they' present to begin with?

Hmmm...

(disinformation link snipped)


I would go a step further and postulate that the WTC was never built; the whole thing was a mirage specifically projected via multi-billion dollar hologram technology to convince people NYC is the world's center of finance capital and trade. Don't be so gullible and believe they flew no planes into buildings that were never built in the first place!



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by snowcrash911

Originally posted by pshea38
Or could it possibly be that there were no 'they' present to begin with?

Hmmm...

(disinformation link snipped)


I would go a step further and postulate that the WTC was never built; the whole thing was a mirage specifically projected via multi-billion dollar hologram technology to convince people NYC is the world's center of finance capital and trade. Don't be so gullible and believe they flew no planes into buildings that were never built in the first place!


I didn't get all that out of what pshea38 wrote, how did you?

From what he wrote, I understand that for the claims of the thousands of dead to be true, the bodies had to be pulverized like the rest of the building contents.

No one mentioned holograms. A real truther would consider the possibility that the reason there were practically no bodies found was not because they turned to dust, but because they were never there to begin with, and lo and behold, that sounds more reasonable than holograms, doesn't it? Does the available evidence support it? I don't know, but if we listened to you, we'd never even look.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by comprehension
No one mentioned holograms. A real truther would consider the possibility that the reason there were practically no bodies found was not because they turned to dust, but because they were never there to begin with, and lo and behold, that sounds more reasonable than holograms, doesn't it? Does the available evidence support it? I don't know, but if we listened to you, we'd never even look.


Wrong. A real truther would include all possibilities including the FACT that the WTC was never even built to begin with, and was really a hologram to convince all of us of the United States' financial clout.

Therefore, since you choose to ignore this "smoking gun" evidence of WTC building fakery, I must conclude you are not a "real truther", since you are unwilling to consider my very reasonable and credible WTC hologram claim.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by snowcrash911

Originally posted by comprehension
No one mentioned holograms. A real truther would consider the possibility that the reason there were practically no bodies found was not because they turned to dust, but because they were never there to begin with, and lo and behold, that sounds more reasonable than holograms, doesn't it? Does the available evidence support it? I don't know, but if we listened to you, we'd never even look.


Wrong. A real truther would include all possibilities including the FACT that the WTC was never even built to begin with, and was really a hologram to convince all of us of the United States' financial clout.

Therefore, since you choose to ignore this "smoking gun" evidence of WTC building fakery, I must conclude you are not a "real truther", since you are unwilling to consider my very reasonable and credible WTC hologram claim.


I don't know what you mean about Holograms, I was under the impression that topic was a red-herring tossed into conversations as a way to end them.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 07:11 PM
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Originally posted by comprehension
I don't know what you mean about Holograms, I was under the impression that topic was a red-herring tossed into conversations as a way to end them.


How astute. Of course, this could never be the case with utterly asinine conjecture about fake 9/11 victims.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by snowcrash911

Originally posted by comprehension
I don't know what you mean about Holograms, I was under the impression that topic was a red-herring tossed into conversations as a way to end them.


How astute. Of course, this could never be the case with utterly asinine conjecture about fake 9/11 victims.


Hmm...can you provide a list of what evidence is asinine and why? It might be faster to just tell me what leads you consider valid.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 06:20 AM
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Originally posted by pshea38

Originally posted by Kester

Looks like they were getting blasted from all directions.



Or could it possibly be that there were no 'they' present to begin with?

Hmmm...

www.cluesforum.info...


This is one of the questions that will be answered when the debris on the Fresh Kills Landfill is properly examined. I can't remember what tonnage was buried unsorted, it was a considerable amount. The investigators didn't treat the debris as evidence, they searched among it for human remains, evidence and personal effects. An efficient investigation will treat the debris as evidence, studying the nature of this evidence to reach conclusions.
The investigators on Fresh Kills repeatedly asked for the conveyors carrying the debris to be slowed. They would be slowed for a while then speeded up again. This was not a thorough investigation. The fines, said to contain the missing human remains, were suddenly bulldozed over the rest of the debris. Was this to conceal the fact that there were no remains there or to conceal evidence of extraordinary demolition? I guess the debunkers will say it was just an oversight. Some oversight. wtcfamiliesforproperburial.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 03:27 PM
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If any part of the OS can be proved false, it is bogus in its entirety, and a real investigation is warranted and should be demanded. What is there left to "debunk" after viewing the award ceremony in honor of Lt. Col. Rick Gibney, for shooting down Flight 93?

video.google.com...

Did the mainstream media ever inform the American people that they shouldn't go on believing the fairy tales they are fed by Hollywood?

The fact that the Bush Crime Syndicate spent 12 years in the White House while no one disputes that Prescott Bush funded Hitler is no scandal at all, but OJ Simpson and Scott Peterson are rammed down our throats for months and months.

Americans know that something is seriously wrong, and yet they do nothing. They choose to be slaves!




edit on 2-1-2012 by SimontheMagus because: typo



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by snowcrash911

Originally posted by pshea38
Or could it possibly be that there were no 'they' present to begin with?

Hmmm...

(disinformation link snipped)


I would go a step further and postulate that the WTC was never built; the whole thing was a mirage specifically projected via multi-billion dollar hologram technology to convince people NYC is the world's center of finance capital and trade. Don't be so gullible and believe they flew no planes into buildings that were never built in the first place!


Even though you are just trying to be funny here, and failing, you are closer to the truth than you think.

OF course the buildings were built, but they may not have had as many FLOORS as were claimed. Towards the end of construction, when they were already realizing that they had a huge white elephant on their hands, they capped off the buildings, claiming the last floors would be built being brought up piece by piece by elevator.

Adding 10 million square feet of office space to an island that already had plenty of empty office space, and expecting it to fill up immediately, in the midst of a really bad recession, was kind of a bad plan. Luckily, when your brother is the governor it helps. The Port Authority, who built the things, and the State of New York were the two main tenants, and for a long time the ONLY ones.

Most of the companies "occupying" the WTC were false front shell companies. Just an address, basically.

So all this talk about human remains, or lack thereof, is not really so crazy. Those buildings were fairly empty from the day they were opened. It's likely that there weren't as many people killed as they claim.

And of course, over insured buildings, loaded with asbestos, which would cost more to tear down than they did to build, suddenly collapsing into their own footprints after being hit by planes? Perfectly normal. No reason to suspect insurance fraud. Used to be called "jewish lightning".

ANd that's just the tip of the iceberg.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by CaptChaos
 



Adding 10 million square feet of office space to an island that already had plenty of empty office space....

Yes, because we are all aware of the legendary low price of real estate in Manhattan. Really, who do you think you're fooling with this crap?



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to post by CaptChaos
 



Most of the companies "occupying" the WTC were false front shell companies. Just an address, basically.


Then can explain to my neighbor what happened to her 2 sons who worked for the "false front" company
Cantor Fitzgerald - both died at the 105 th floor

Or can ask another person I know - worked for Port Authorithy on 86th floor, just below where plane hit

If read book "102 Minutes" will find her story there - was lucky enough to escape



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 08:06 AM
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Over the long week end, I dug through some old videos I had saved and found this.

www.youtube.com...

I thought it might be of interest to some who may not have seen it before.

I feel it is atleast a "reasonable" investigation into what happened on 9-11.

I do not remember if it gives the names of those who planned and carried out the acts, but it
does go through many of the questions which surround the OS.



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by Reheat

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst

>> So it's not me saying the report is crap -- it's Kean and I think one or two others from the Commission.


It's telling that you don't tell the whole story. You've only "quote mined" comments without the full context taken from a "truther" web site...

...
It is also of worthy note that neither of these dedicated gentlemen are "truthers." If you believe differently and want to stand by your deceptive implications why are you using comments from a traitor to make your deliberately deceptive point?


www.9-11commission.gov...



I didn't "QUOTE MINE" -- I googled and got some of the top most pertinent links. Non-Truther websites don't seem to keep track of non-pro government 9/11 quotes as well.

The AMAZING thing here is NOT that the Bush government couldn't find someone who would be "reasonable" and get a report that seemed balanced and thorough and who would not become a Truther. The AMAZING thing was that the Bush administration dragged their feet for years, and spent so much effort obstructing and limiting the investigation. OF COURSE the report doesn't show anything bad.

There was clear obstruction. I never called Kean a traitor. The ONLY evidence we have comes from the OFFICIALS -- nobody else. Bush is clearly one to the principles of this nation -- and he intentionally bankrupted us while starting wars of error. Does that make you feel SAFER?

Why expect BushCo to incriminate itself?

The AMAZING thing is that they botched this Commission so thoroughly, and still people think we got the full story. The Report is dull, it shows everything consistent with the Government opinion. But it pissed off an otherwise consistent and dependable bureaucrat who was ready to paint within the lines. Had they learned nothing from the Warren Commission?


>> I'm just always amazed that people are surprised their are a lot of conspiracy theories about 9/11. Not that I believe all of them, or think there is a lot of evidence supporting their theories. I didn't think there was a setup with the first bombing of the WTC by the Blind Sheik -- nor with Ruby Ridge. But if 9/11 happened as we were told, then why all the obstruction? Why didn't NORAD come out of the closet for 4 years? Why no videotapes from the Pentagon but 5 frames?

It would have been SO EASY to lay this to rest for a REASONABLE person like me.

>> And I'm not just a Bush hater (though I've thought he was excrement for years before he took office) -- I'm also wondering WHY, after all that has happened, that Seal Team 6 couldn't record their capture of Bin Laden, bring him back for trial, or at least DOCUMENT SOMETHING. The soldiers came home alive -- so why not bring an old man with them? What we are shown proves very little. Then, true to the whole saga of 9/11 -- the entire team gets blown up in the same airplane.

It could have been SO EASY to convict Bin Laden in court -- and so healthy to heal the wounds of 9/11. But that didn't happen. Not taking him to trial hurt the reputation of the USA. Shooting an old man in his little hovel in Pakistan proves nothing and serves no purpose.

If you wanted to shut him up, or if he were already dead -- then this is about the BEST POSSIBLE SCENARIO! Some evidence that SOMETHING happened, in an area of the globe where nothing can be proven. A few photos and commanders on TV, but the team itself dead and buried and the "mastermind" has his DNA safely in the stomach of an Ocean fish.

Bin Laden denied being behind 9/11 though he's taken credit for other events. The only video showing him taking credit was a proven forgery -- that doesn't prove bin Laden didn't do it --- but his lack of ownership is pretty curious.


>> I'm not trying to change the subject -- it's they LACK of good proof and evidence of something that should be pretty damn obvious that disturbs me. The whole WTC was not treated as a crime scene, nor was the Pentagon, and everything was buried with a quaint "Trust Us" tacked on. The administration then lied us into war -- as if it didn't matter Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. Even Afghanistan is a failed state that could hardly STOP Bin Laden if they knew about it. And we didn't invade Germany or South Florida where the REAL planning went on, nor did we go after Saudi Arabia where most of the hijackers allegedly came from.

>> Instead we get the Patriot Act to allow our government to spy on everyone, when the Perpetrators were all on watch lists and being tracked by the CIA. None of these "suspects" was a surprise to anyone.


The GREATEST ATROCITIES of 9/11 were not the death of nearly 3,000 people, It was the Patriot Act. The invasion of 2 countries for resources. The NDAA enabling act. Internal spying. The lying about air quality and the death of MOST of the first responders.

9/11 is only the excuse for what happened next



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