Borderline Personality Disorder And "Splitting"

Originally posted by HomerinNC
Let me tell you all something:
I suffer from BOTH Borderline Personality Disorder AND Bipolar disorder, and I have to say, alot of these replies about telling the OP to stay away from people like me, is appalling. You only mention RARE cases, not all of us are as bad as you'd all like to believe.
First off, I admit to being impulsive at times, but then I got a wonderful understanding GF I live with that knows my issues and knows how to rein me in before going crazy with impulsive actions. I also take my meds everyday without fail, as i know i am a little off kilter if i dont. But I have NEVER been violent toward anyone else, nor have I ever tried to hurt anyone emotionally, financially or physically.
If you havent deal with the illness or with anyone else with it, please refrain from commenting

Let's not mislead anyone here:

The duel diagnosis is fairly common; but the treatment for one has nothing to do with the other. Medication for Bi-Polar (aka Manic Depressive) does not touch the Borderline Personality Disorder.

If you have a diagnosis and the diagnosis is sound, then it HAS effected your relationships in a negative way.

Any five of the following will get that diagnosis:

1. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or self-injuring behavior covered in Criterion 5
2. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.
3. Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.
4. Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., promiscuous sex, eating disorders, binge eating, substance abuse, reckless driving). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-injuring behavior covered in Criterion 5
5. Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, threats or self-injuring behavior such as cutting, interfering with the healing of scars (excoriation) or picking at oneself.
6. Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).
7. Chronic feelings of emptiness
8. Inappropriate anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent 9. Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation, delusions or severe dissociative symptoms

You cannot pick any five that do not damage others with whom you have a relationship. Denying that the other was harmed is also expected, and when faced with it, claiming that the other deserved it is also expected.

Also, what most people who have not lived with someone with BPD think is that it is the "cutting disorder." Neither of mine did that, but the #5 diagnostic criteria was met by one anyway-- just not with razor blades.

Furthermore, the diagnostic criteria are not a list of symptoms. Paranoid accusations against friends and family members are expected from anyone diagnosed with BPD-- but is not a diagnostic criteria because that symptom could be any of a number of other disorders.

Besides any five of the above list-- ALL of the following must also be met to have received a diagnosis:

1. There is evidence that the individual's characteristic and enduring patterns of inner experience and behaviour as a whole deviate markedly from the culturally expected and accepted range (or "norm"). Such deviation must be manifest in two or more of the following areas:
* cognition (i.e., ways of perceiving and interpreting things, people, and events; forming attitudes and images of self and others);
* affectivity (range, intensity, and appropriateness of emotional arousal and response);
* control over impulses and gratification of needs;
* manner of relating to others and of handling interpersonal situations.
2. The deviation must manifest itself pervasively as behaviour that is inflexible, maladaptive, or otherwise dysfunctional across a broad range of personal and social situations (i.e., not being limited to one specific "triggering" stimulus or situation).
3. There is personal distress, or adverse impact on the social environment, or both, clearly attributable to the behaviour referred to in criterion 2.
4. There must be evidence that the deviation is stable and of long duration, having its onset in late childhood or adolescence.
5. The deviation cannot be explained as a manifestation or consequence of other adult mental disorders, although episodic or chronic conditions from sections F00-F59 or F70-F79 of this classification may coexist with, or be superimposed upon, the deviation.
6. Organic brain disease, injury, or dysfunction must be excluded as the possible cause of the deviation. ...

If, and only if, the diagnosis is fitting then your benign self-assessment will be disputed by those closest to you.

Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by alldaylong

 

Not enough information to say.

Was she saying to her parents:

--this is my friend I've shared so much about?

--this is my friend/lover?

--this is my friend who's a lot like me who could also use some parental caring that didn't bite?

--this is my friend that I'd like you to get to know better because she's helped me a lot?

The impression i got at the time was she was saying to her parents "Look i have got a friend" Meaning that her parents thought she was not the type of person who would have someone as a friend.
Hope i explianed that more clearly

reply to post by alldaylong


In that case, it's quite plausible and understandable.

BPD's tend to understandably burn out and pour through friends like so much water . . . with little lasting good to show for it.

Saying to her parents--see--I have a friend who's sticking with me . . . could be a testimony of hope to herself, to her friend and to her parents.

Or, it could be a kind of vain hope that finally someone will stick with her just because that friend had not reached the burned out stage, yet.

Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by Frira

 

I am such a person. I continuously, incessantly, seek to prepare for a battle which will likely never come. On the other hand-- I make a great first-responder in a crisis! I cannot imagine not being ready-- and find that the vast majority of humanity who have to think before acting in an emergency to be contemptuously relaxed-- until I remember that I am the oddball.

As my very wise therapist explained to me... I am alive because I am that way, disordered as it is, so of course I am loathe to change. Being hyper-vigilant saved my life-- and the lives of at least two others.

Morally speaking, how do I relax when I know that doing so can cost a life? I am what I am. However, and back to the point of the post to which I respond: That I am ready for mass disorder and violence-- does not mean the end is near. I just have all that stored potential and sometime wish the trigger would come to release it.

. . . per my biases . . . existential thrownness . . . perspective . . . experiences . . . constructions on reality:

. . . including . . . living around a friend who's been BPD all their life . . .

WE--certainly most of us?--in this era . . . were

BORN FOR SUCH A TIME AS THIS.

I respect your cautious qualified assertions above. Respectfully, I do NOT think that's all there is to it.

Though that would be a lot if it were.

I believe our experiences give us some extra spiritual and intellectual sensitivities that are more alert and tuned-in to psycho-dynamic and sociological and spiritual forces rushing forward and converging toward

Actually, I agree with you more than I am comfortable in saying.

A bit off topic, from my perspective, but I do think there can be (might possibly be for some) a spiritual benefit resulting from significant trauma and also from the acute watchfulness some have as a result of trauma.

Way off topic, in another hemisphere, I would be interested to see a study of how many people popularly regarded by others as "Indigos" have PTSD.

At any rate, the study of Transpersonal Psychology (a very good and desirable thing) also may have a statistical relation to trauma and its after effects.

...

Some of us have 'over-the-horizon-radar' about such things and many seem obliviously bumbling and mumbling around in denial.

I joking refer to it as my "superpowers" but it is not my reaction to things which is unusually fast and decisive, but my perception of things others will not even notice that is responsible for my edge and therefore I react quickly and decisively just as it is dawning on others that something is not right.

Those very things-- that others see you (I do not see myself this way, but others have) as having uncommon insight and an almost precognitive intuition just before danger-- those are found in psychological material describing someone with hyper-vigilance as well as someone who is undergoing a trans-personal experience.

However, since I always have a sense of danger, and attempt to stay ready-- I'll be in the middle of real trouble more than most. Whereas someone may simply wonder how her purse disappeared or where that flash came from-- when I am around, I have spotted the person maneuvering to snatch the purse and giving chase the moment the thief acts or had already spotted the photographer on the roof cross the street, and identified that he had a camera rather than a rifle well before the flash.

I am hard to startle and to others that looks like "spiritual peace." The real question I wonder about-- is, IS IT?

I think BPD folks can readily be, by their constant scanning and often paranoid character disorder features, keenly and early on alert to the forces setting such things up--well before the average bear.

Of course, sorting out what is valid extra keen alertness on their part and what is BPD/PARANOIA is a whole

'NOTHER ISSUE. LOL.

And with that, you take us back on topic.

Yes, my hyper-vigilance was most inadequate in the face of BPD-- I still got hurt and so did others; despite my "superpowers.".

Nevertheless, hypervigilence is effective in early detection of threat (as well, of course, in assuming threat when there is none or little).

I think it remains for those of us who, hopefully, have better reality testing to ASSESS the threat that BPD etc. sorts may accurately detect and 'alert' on.
...
BPD folks may well be the canaries in the mine shaft for all of us.

. . . for those who will pay attention and check things out fair-mindedly.

edit on 30/12/2011 by BO XIAN because: fix emphases

Yes. I have been accused of "over-reacting" by the oblivious. "How did you know he had a gun; because I didn't know!"
"Because I pay attention."

Originally posted by alldaylong
reply to post by Frira

 

If i may take this opportunity to explain when i first had concern about the person who was later diagnosed with BPD.

She held a 40th birthday party.
She invited mainly family but also some of my friends
Her parents where also in attendance.
A lady arrived at the party and the lady with BPD held her hand and took her over to her parents and said to them "This is my friend"

I found that quite a strange thing to do. Or is it normal and i am the strange one?

Bo Xian's post about burn-out sounds very plausible to me.

As much of a big-honking-red-flag as BPD is to me, I have a friend who recently confided to me that she has been diagnosed with BPD. She is a special and wonderful person, but any romantic thoughts I had, or wondered if I had, were doused with ice water at that moment.

I was surprised and flattered to have others reflect the impression that she and I were "close friends" as I had not indicated anything to them in that regard so knew that she had. Still, I had a similar uneasiness as you described-- as if, "Oh my! I have a responsibility for her I did not know I had-- if she considers me close!" I, of course, said no such thing to anyone.

My ex-wife never had ANY friends for more than a few months. Likewise, my mother has no friends-- unless you count (and she does) people she socializes with only in groups.

So it may be a combination-- someone who will stick with her as well as the rare person she trusts and who seems to trust her. In which case, noteworthy information for her to share with her parents.

Hey, you are "noteworthy"-- good for you! I'm serious. Now, go take that "noteworthy" friendliness and share it with someone who will not destroy you for the main relationships.

I fully intend to keep my BPD friend (pretty, smart and gifted as she is) as a friend, but with boundaries I am able to control-- in other words: no romance and no intimacy. And if my heart tries to suggest more, I merely repeat the BPD-victim mantra, "Hey, heart! Shut up already! I hear you and am ignoring you."

Odd. The few persons with BCP who have posted have been objecting to the advice given by others that no one get close to them. I just realized that they have no way of knowing how person who love them must suffer by keeping their distance just to protect themselves. I love my mother and my ex-wife-- but the pain they inflict is worse and lasts longer and costs more than the pain of grieving their absence from my life.

Loving from afar is meaningful and powerful--even if the other does not know it. BPD's should love from afar, because many of their victims find they can no longer love any other way.

Originally posted by galacticgirl
To ALL the posters - thank you from the bottom of my heart. Each post furthers knowledge - understanding - awareness of a very real life situation for so many people. Please keep this thread going. There's a reason why this is a focus at this particular moment in time. Many of us can feel it around us - time has speeded up and everything on the planet seems to be coming to a head all at the same time.
I have a knowing that people interacting with BPD and those who have it are having the same experience: everything is coming to a head.

I am very interested in your theories. I sensed that the man I was involved with that seemed mentally incapable of dealing with life was really a highly spiritual person. What sort of role do you think this type of person might play in the times we are experiencing here on Earth? Or... is that exactly what your question is?

Off-topic a bit: I think Fibromyalgia is something that is having to do with the rising Earth energies. I wonder if many of the disorders we see might have something to do with this, too. What are your thoughts on this?

Thank you

reply to post by JB1234


Thanks for these words. I also had the misfortune to move in with, immediately knock up, then marry ("doing the decent thing"....) an high functioning, acting out sociopath who is as yet undiagnosed as she refuses to accept that she could have anything wrong with her. I left her over 7 years ago, but there being children involved this will never stop.
She abused our daughter emotionally and physically, she is now 12 and has lived with me 100% for the last year or so, refuses to see her mum and following sucicide threats now gets phsychiatric help weekly, but is now well on the mend. I wish the same could be said of my x. She still has custody of our boy who is 8, though she treats him like a possession and shouts at him if he disagrees with her, she has yet to start properly abusing him. He is good looking and sporty too which helps. He stays with me and his sister 2-3 nights a week and seems ok, though how long this is the case for remains to be seen.
Following the suicide threats our GP had to inform social services and as a result both kids were placed on the child protection register, though social services have proven to be toothless so far, seemingly starting from the standpoint "poor mum, evil dad" despite all the evidence of my x's clear mental instability. Prefering to believe that the main problem was the conflict between the parents, rather than the "elephant in the room" being one party suffering BPD.
You mentioned that you contributed to a report for the UK gov which addressed the issue of BPD and its destructie effects on families. Could you please post a link to this report? It may help me.

reply to post by rlro2009



How awful that social services in your case,just like mine don't seem to understand what they're dealing with.
I'm not surprised though to be honest, I've come across some social workers that seem to have more mental health issues than the people they are supposed to be assisting. It's all about power and control sometimes!

I remember how frustrating it was being told my ex and I had marital issues when I was trying to explain to people that my ex was behaving like a psychopath and that if he refused to accept treatment his exposure to his children should be limited. It's really really difficult though when you are dealing with someone who is quite high functioning, because in the short term, they can fool anyone that they are quite normal and just the most lovliest person, anyone could wish to meet. Social workers, Doctors, Courts, Police et al all become part of the game of deception on the part of the person with BPD. It's all part of the war of attrition and acting out railed against the non BPD.

My GP was brilliant, because her husband is like my ex, so she understood perfectly. I hear now that they too are divorcing. One thing she taught me was to NOT alienate the children in anyway about their faither. Let THEM make their own minds up if possible. However if your ex wife's behaviour has lead to your daughter being suicidal then perhaps more drastic action maybe required. My daughter who became the object of my ex's affections when it was clear I'd had enough and the unhealthy emotional bond they have caused her no end of problems. She ended up having to have 12months psychiatric counselling. However no one could break this bond and she too ended up going to live with her Dad.

I'm not kidding how dangerous this can be also - the day Derrick Bird ran amock around Whitehaven in Cumbria, - friends and family who knew my ex and were under no illusions as to what he was like under the facade... were frantically trying to get hold of me because more than one of them thought that my ex, who used to be - wait for it - a taxi driver had come back with a gun to wreek revenge on me and a few others on his hit list. How many people know that Derrick Bird had a history of self harm? His body was apparently covered with scars.

As a therapist once told me - The rage that some Borderlines feel is not normal anger it's the rage of an out of control toddler - and THAT sort of anger can in some cases be very very dangerous!

The paper I wrote on BPD was absorbed into the new mental health consultation update a couple of years ago, I never published it independently. At the time I was working for a voluntary organisation and I know that they in the past have emailed this document to people, so I will try and get hold of a copy for you somehow. I lost alot of documents when a PC died on me suddenly. If I can get hold of a copy I'll publish it on Dropbox and post a link.

www.bpdcentral.com have some really useful info regarding divorce and BPD plus the damage parental alienation can cause to a child.

Non of us mean any disrespect to anyone on ATS who is a sufferer of this debilitating disorder. There are different ways this disorder manifests itself and as I've said before ALL of us can show these traits if push comes to shove.

reply to post by rlro2009


My heart wrenches at your narrative. Sigh.

1. PLEASE INSURE THAT YOU KEEP A JOURNAL NIGHTLY WITH AT LEAST ONE SENTENCE PER NIGHT SIGNED AND DATED. When any significant event occurs, insure a witness signs and dates the relevant entry.

2. The following two ATTACHMENT DISORDER ARTICLES ARE GOOD ENOUGH I WISH I COULD SPOON FEED THEM TO EVERY POTENTIAL AND ACTUAL PARENT ON THE PLANET;

BONDING AND ATTACHMENT IN MALTREATED CHILDREN: CONSEQUENCES OF EMOTIONAL NEGLECT AND CHILDHOOD by Dr Bruce Perry:

teacher.scholastic.com...

DR PERRY'S SUGGESTIONS FOR WHAT CARING FOLKS CAN DO.

www.scholastic.com...

3. My understanding of British culture, psychology and customs is such that, I'd guess that particularly for men, physical affection, particularly with sons, might be lacking. I'd encourage you to be even "excessive" IN FITTING WAYS even if you had to gently train both children to soak it up. The VERY HIGH ODDS ARE they desperately crave that level of affirmation, caring, love, support whether they are able to own it or flow with it at present, or not. Using that as a major communication of your caring could go a long ways toward healing the hideous wounds from their mother. And, it's hard to lie with touch. It would be an emphatic, deeply communciative affirmation of your caring.

Even if it's 'merely' a hand on the shoulder; a shoulder or neck massage; a lingering fitting hug . . . whatever edifying that works . . . I'd encourage you to experiment in constructive healthy ways until the feedback is soaking it up

4. I grew up with a crazy mother. She did the best she knew but she'd had a hard childhood and didn't have a clue about how to relate constructively with me. She probably still could not have managed it if she'd had a clue but she'd have sure given it a go as she loved me desperately. She just had destructive ways of showing it.

5. Prayers for you and your two kids. What a nightmare.

6. Without . . . leading your son per se . . . I'd certainly insure that he knew he had your permission and encouragement to share with social services his perspectives on living with his mother. I'd also encourage him to keep a journal--even if he left it at your house.

7. imho, there's NO DOUBT but that your kids have significant degrees of attachment disorder as undoubtedly do their mother. You likely do as well; else you'd not have married the woman.

8. Please PLEASE INSURE that you are recharged with affirming friends and recreation and reflective times in nature or whatever constructively refills your cup. YOU NEED THAT. IF YOU DON'T TAKE CARE OF YOU, YOU CAN'T TAKE CARE OF YOUR PRECIOUS KIDS.

9. It may at times feel like your kids are a bottomless pit of neediness--depending on their personalities and ways of handling such angst. When it does, remind yourself that they have little to no other way of being as they try to cope with a crazy mother. Remind yourself that your extra investment in lavishly loving them on as many channels as constructively possible IS REALLY REALLY REALLY WORTH IT.

10. Sigh. My heart really goes out to you. May God bless your efforts with your two kids. Most Sincerely, B.X.

reply to post by JB1234


I much agree that some social service workers can seem and actually have as many problems as their clients and as severe.

THE KEEPING A NIGHTLY JOURNAL OF AT LEAST ONE SENTENCE HELPS A LOT to overcome that inertia and horrid track record with social services.

And periodically, photocopy the important pages. Keep them in another trusted location.

If necessary, give an attorney a copy.

If necessary send a copy of the important pages to a top level social services administrator insisting that something change.

Communicate to a social services administrator who still has a brain and a heart that "you" (rlro2009) will NOT leave a stone unturned to insure that your kids get rational constructive treatment in the matters at hand.

BTW, respondant JB1234, . . . THANKS FOR YOUR GREAT HELP ON THIS THREAD TO SO MANY HURTING PEOPLE. CONGRATS.
.
.