US sends aircraft carrier in the middle of Iranian wargames

reply to post by Maxatoria

would be funny if the iranians nearly sank the aircraft carrier and it had to limp home due to some 40 year old torpedo the iranians lauched to sink some target scow but the carrier decided to ignore the warnings and sail right into it

Funny for whom? For Iranians who will be bombed and invaded or for US navy dudes who will be killed or wounded?
What is funny in this,i do not get. Both sides are teasing one another into who will blink first but if someone with similar sense of humor will pull a trigger or push a button and it will go down the hill in minutes.

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by Maxatoria
would be funny if the iranians nearly sank the aircraft carrier and it had to limp home due to some 40 year old torpedo the iranians lauched to sink some target scow but the carrier decided to ignore the warnings and sail right into it

Yeah, it would be a real hoot to see a chance for 5000+ US Sailors get killed. What a toolbag.

You see Jerico65, you are not thinking like a 1%er , Elite, ruling class , your choice of terms.

Let,s let a real American Hero tell you what those 5000 men are , shall we?

"Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in Foreign Policy " Henry Kissinger

reply to post by seabag

The plan to take out Iran has been in the making for decades.
With the abundant information available on this subject, on ATS alone, there is no excuse for blind patriotism.
As for the "free" world, you are free to be executed, free of a trial by jury for example if someone above the law deems you a "terrorist" for you thoughts and words. You are free to have your income confiscated for aggressive wars overseas against people that pose no threat to you. You are free to have your job moved overseas because your government responds to lobbyist money. You are free to join the military and attack innocent people.
Enjoy your freedom. I will use mine to educate people on the tyrannical actions of our government that threatens innocent people around the world, including Americans.

ofcourse i dont want anyone to die but it would be in some way typical of the american view that they could waltz through a countries legitimate training session and not get hit when theres shells/missiles/torpedo's and what not flying around and expect not to get hit

Originally posted by Maxatoria
ofcourse i dont want anyone to die but it would be in some way typical of the american view that they could waltz through a countries legitimate training session and not get hit when theres shells/missiles/torpedo's and what not flying around and expect not to get hit

So if a country is doing "legitimate training" in open water for a few weeks then everyone else is expected to stay away from the area ?

Just wondering...

JG.

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Yes this is just BRILLIANT... Totally not trying to start a war there uh?

Yeah, because that happens all the time.

How many times in the past did the Soviets have ships, etc, near US Exercise areas? And the US had their forces near Soviet exercises??

WWIII didn't start then. Of course, the Soviets had a bit more common sense than the Iranians.......

And the Soviets also had much more restraint than the US has now. The US would start a war if the Iranians spit on one of their ships.

'Course, this is just a chess game, right now. Iran makes a threat to close the strait (act of war), the US sends in a fleet to say, "go ahead, we dare ya."

Originally posted by SurrealisticPillow
What do you call Sanctions?

Originally posted by seabag
I call it punishment for not complying with the free world. It's not a provocation, it's a response to a provocation.

In other words, for not playing ball like the West thinks(wants) them too? Sounds familiar...oh yeah, Libya, and plenty of other places. The world according to the US. Our way or the highway.

(Psst: This is a reason why so many people are angry at us and at Israel, 'cause we think we can tell people what to do, and sometimes also do the opposite of what we tell others they can't)

Everyone that is really paying attention knows that Iran is run by fanatical religious nut-jobs hell bent on starting war with Israel and the west so they can usher in the 12th Imam. And people who advocate stopping these freaks are not traitors.

Quite an inaccurate generalization and one-sided perspective there, dontcha think? "Everyone" who pays attention "knows" that they are "religious but-jobs?" Oh, please. One could easily, accurately say that Israel is run by a bunch of religious nut jobs bent on doing whatever it wants while trying to eliminate the Palestinians and itself constantly provoking the entire region because they delusionally believe they are "chosen" by God.

If Israel could get away with it, IT would be the one to truly start a war in the middle east.

Plus, if Iran wanted to start a war with Israel, it WOULD. It HASN'T, isn't trying, so there's nothing to STOP.

The people who advocate stopping something that hasn't even started are using a War Machine to force sovereign nations to act according to how they see fit (to play ball), when said sovereign nations are NOT a threat, which is a direct military provocation (and sometimes act) against a nonthreatening nation simply to get them to comply with hypocritical demands.

'Course, Iran kinda has a few things a lot of people want and need. Just they don't wanna play ball by OUR hypocritical rules.

Originally posted by jaduguru

Originally posted by Maxatoria
ofcourse i dont want anyone to die but it would be in some way typical of the american view that they could waltz through a countries legitimate training session and not get hit when theres shells/missiles/torpedo's and what not flying around and expect not to get hit

So if a country is doing "legitimate training" in open water for a few weeks then everyone else is expected to stay away from the area ?

Just wondering...

JG.

i'd expect them to work with the country so nothing accidental happens so if iran says they're doing some torpedo tests etc in a certain area an certain time i'd expect everyone else in the area to let them get on with it and not look to cause deliberate accidents assuming that everyones given good warning

Umm... in case you are forgetting. Iran has plenty of S2S missiles that could take that carrier, or any of its backup down if it wanders too close to the straights.

Everyone seems to think fighting Iran would be the same as fighting Iraq. It's not.

This is 1987/88 all over again.

This is NOT the first time Iran tried to blockade the gulf. In the 80's the US Navy used minesweepers to clear the Strait of Hormuz, destroying targets including a oil rig platform that was being used stage mines. The United States also worked with the UN to re-flag foreign owned oil tankers to make them a part of the US merchant marine fleet, that gave us the authority to escort them into and out of the gulf as part of a convey.

I was in the Navy back then, stationed aboard a guided-missile cruiser that was a part of the Enterprise carrier task force. (that pic posted earlier in this thread is typical carrier task force - and it's an older pic since I don't see any Aegis ships). The biggest threat we faced - besides the mines - was the narrow straits could harbor other threats - land-based missile systems, or smaller boats/planes launched to attack us, that's always a threat when a ship comes in too close to a hostile shoreline. Back then the Aegis phased array radar was just coming into use, where each ship's Aegis radar is combined to provide a much greater level of tactical awareness than you would have by standalone systems (along with AWACs). I would think that our ability to monitor any and all movement on land, sea, or air is far improved over what it was then. Another threat we faced was just the hostile environment, 25 miles out in the Straits and we would get his with sand storms, we would have to mask off all the air intakes with muslin or gauze, then had to deal with the heat - which would get so bad the paint would melt off the deck. We also had placed sandbags on our forecastle, and placed a watch up there armed with an M-14 and a pair of binoculars to act as a last-ditch mine deterrent - with the idea the watch would shoot it before the ship plowed into it. 100 degree heat, sandstorms, wearing a flak jacket and hunkered down on a burning metal deck scanning for mines. The Iranians would wait until they had a bearing on some entering ships, then from their staging areas (like the aforementioned oil rig platform) they would dash out in zodiacs and drop mines in the water. From some of the other ships we heard mines could be anything from 55-gal. drums packed with high explosives to authentic Russian made mines. One ship (the Roberts) hit a mine but was able to be towed back to port.

Having the carrier there now is a show of force - maybe to remind the Iranians how badly we beat them last time. It's when the carrier withdraws that the s*** is about to hit the fan. If I recall, back in 88 the carrier never actually entered the gulf or the strait, it remained out in the Indian Ocean safe from shore-based threats. It was the cruisers and destroyers that had all the fun of convoying ships through it and protecting mine sweepers.

I can recount a few other tales of brinkmanship from the Navy back in the late 80's - ramming Russian ships in the Black Sea, accidentally firing a .50 cal at a passing Russian ship in the Bosphorus Strait, etc. All part of how the Navy keeps the seas safe for American commerce and 'freedom'.

Everyone that is really paying attention knows Iran is the enemy of Israel, thus WE have to take them out. 
I hate to tell you, but there are no Oathkeepers making these decisions to provoke war with Iran, just traitors.

Everyone that is really paying attention knows that Iran is run by fanatical religious nut-jobs hell bent on starting war with Israel and the west so they can usher in the 12th Imam. And people who advocate stopping these freaks are not traitors. 

Funny enough its what they say about the U.S., Europe, U.K., Australia, Iceland, Greece, Germany, sheet , now that i think about every nation who has an issue with another one always says the same thing.

We are so going to war on a planetary scale that it not a case of " if " but " when " , i give the fourth month of '12

reply to post by cerebralassassins

So, if Iran is hell bent on starting a war with Israel, why don't they do it? The fact is, they are not. They do recognize the enemy of the majority of people in the middle east, and that is Israel of course.
The U.S. is under Israeli control, and the U.S. will do what Israel wants. Controlling the abundant natural resources in the Caspian Sea is the prize. They intend to do so, Iran and the world be damned.
Iran would be foolish to attack Israel, but facing their own extinction as a sovereign country they may do so.
Make no mistake, it is the U.S. and Israel that are backing Iran into a corner with ever more hostile sanctions.

reply to post by Etheraeon


I have to ask, did you take the same stance when a Chinese sub popped up in the middle of American maneuvers?

Did you also think that china was provoking the US?

The view here seems to be one sided...

America couldn't be there to protect EVERYONE'S interest in Iran's closure threats?

When ever America does something it is the worst possible scenario / intentions... It is getting old.

no matter how anyone wants to view the scenario, whether one thinks the u.s. is right to keep a close watch on the iranian naval maneuvers; or trying to elicit a hostile reaction to get the ball rolling. the bottom line is that this is more than just two nations beating their chests. the amount of oil that passes through hormuz is such a significant amount, it affects both the oil market around the world and the major recipients, namely china. until this whole situation passes, i'm very nervous because the western world, namely u.s., cannot pretend to understand what's going on inside the psyche of the iranian leader. not to say he's irrational, but what mindset is he going to be if he feels his most valuable commodity is being threatened. i have family deployed right now, and i hope and pray this situation doesn't get out of hand. expectations, emotionally, are quite high at the end of the year. this is true for all people's groups. there are many human factors, emotional and cultural, that make this incident highly volatile. unlike the ambiguous enemies/terrorists of the past several years, iranian navy ships are clearly marked. that might be way too tempting for tptb to engage a known enemy.

Everyone that is really paying attention knows that Iran is run by fanatical religious nut-jobs hell bent on starting war with Israel and the west so they can usher in the 12th Imam. And people who advocate stopping these freaks are not traitors.

RIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT...

Keep believing the neo-con propaganda...while we stick to facts. And let me remind you that even according to the neo-con propaganda, that's Ahmadinejad believing this... and guess what pal, Ahmadinejad doesn't control JACK in Iran, the Mullahs do.

Mossad head : Iran with nuclear weapons is not an existential threat to Israel

reply to post by Suibom1974


Of course I must agree with you here, provocation is not a one way street, but that is certainly what it seems is the case in this situation. The Iranians let it be known that they were going to be conducting war games in and around the Straits of Hormuz. I defy any of you to show a travel schedule wherein it proves the USS Stennis was to be passing through the exact same patch of the Strait that the Iranians themselves were to be occupying at the moment (As was put up for conjecture by officials). It is made to sound like there is simply not enough room to skirt a confrontation with the war games everyone knows about.... Rather, they head right for it. That's provocation in my eyes.

reply to post by Etheraeon


BUT, there have also been reports that these "war games" were a cover for them to prepare for mining.

Don't get me wrong, the US ships being there add a whole new level of "what if's"

BUT, if the iranians decide to start popping out mines, I would like someone there to stop them.

It comes down to " mean what you say, and say what you mean"

Iran says if the US pushes for these new sanctions, they will shut it down, as easily as "a drink of water"

That being said, should we take it as barking, while sitting days away, or get in close to be able to stop any attempt...

Frankly, I am wishy washy on how I feel about this.

Nothing is going to happen. It never does.

reply to post by Suibom1974


You put up a good argument, but you make the greatest point I could, the U.S. ship even being there adds a whole new dimension of "what if's", so, why barge into the Strait with one of the largest in a fleet of Aircraft Carriers? When you could just as effectively monitor a situation with spy drones 50,000 feet in the air, out of site and out of mind (while it's still a situation wherein no physical presence is needed), but still as close as you need to be to monitor the situation.
It seems like a whole heck of a lot of firepower to be brandishing when the U.S military is more than willing to cloak and dagger their way through other issues.

Originally posted by princeofpeace
Nothing is going to happen. It never does.

That is until it does. Which do happen once in a while. And this is an election year.

reply to post by SurrealisticPillow

The plan to take out Iran has been in the making for decades.
With the abundant information available on this subject, on ATS alone, there is no excuse for blind patriotism.

Do you have any proof of that besides conjecture in ATS posts?

As for the "free" world, you are free to be executed, free of a trial by jury for example if someone above the law deems you a "terrorist" for you thoughts and words. You are free to have your income confiscated for aggressive wars overseas against people that pose no threat to you. You are free to have your job moved overseas because your government responds to lobbyist money. You are free to join the military and attack innocent people.
Enjoy your freedom. I will use mine to educate people on the tyrannical actions of our government that threatens innocent people around the world, including Americans.

I am free! I’ve been free my entire life. Have you been oppressed here in America? Do you know any American’s that have been detained without trial? Please share!!

I've been to many countries and I know firsthand how good we have it here in America. If you think it’s so bad here then you’ve obviously never experienced anything else.

Take it down a notch, chicken little…it’s all speculation at this point. Until your neighbor, friend or family member gets hauled off to a FEMA camp then I wouldn’t get too excited our freedom here in America.