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God's seventh-day Sabbath: Its not Sunday.

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posted on Aug, 28 2013 @ 08:45 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 

Everyone notice, jim did not give the name exactly of who canonized Scripture OR the exact year.
You are looking through catholic glasses where you have to wait around to have the Pope tell you if something is true or not.

. . . which one are those?
Matthew | Mark | Luke | John | Acts | Romans | 1 Corinthians | 2 Corinthians | Galatians | Ephesians | Philippians | Colossians | 1 Thessalonians | 2 Thessalonians | 1 Timothy | 2 Timothy | Titus | Philemon | Hebrews | James | 1 Peter | 2 Peter | 1 John | 2 John | 3 John | Jude | Revelation

Our Lord wants you to become Roman Catholic.
The schismatic sect of Rome.
edit on 28-8-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2013 @ 09:01 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 

Explain then, the Ark of the Covenant? God instructed images of angels placed on it to decorate the Ark
There were also divine entities ( figures of cherubim) embroidered onto the curtain of the Holy Place.
According to the Old Testament, they named the pillars of the temple, Jachin and Boaz.
edit on 28-8-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2013 @ 09:09 PM
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Jesus was a cultural Jew. He did not live in Israel, since it has not existed since the time of the Assyrian Empire. His disciples were ethnic Jews. He would have grown up in a culturally Jewish home but in a gentile territory.


Huh? Jesus was a "cultural Jew" that "didn't live in Israel"? What on earth are you talking about?

The Second Temple still stood in Christ's time. Israel still very much existed at the time. Rome had political authority - yes, but the Jews were still permitted to conduct their religious observances.

Christ was highly spiritual. You act as if He were just some random secular hipster living in Seattle. Bizarre.




Explain then, the Ark of the Covenant? God instructed images of angels placed on it to decorate the Ark God means no graven images of FALSE gods. I love the image of Our Lord, the Sacred Heart of Jesus statue.


An icon, idol, or statue that is worshiped is still against the First Commandment. We are not to possess them, nor worship them.

To somehow suggest that the Ark of the Covenant is an "exception", and therefore we are now permitted to worship and glorify icons and statues, is a stretch by far, and certainly against the intent, meaning, spirit, and direct instructions of the First Commandment.

G-d commanded Moses to build the Ark of the Covenant, which was never worshiped in and of itself as a deity nor god. It was a device of immense power, utilized in war, and utilized as a communication device. It was not a god nor deity in and of itself. Gold is not a deity, nor is a wooden box, nor are statues of angels.



In order to have ammunition to argue with the Jewish doctors of the Law.


Christ and His disciples didn't read from the Torah and the Prophets for the sole sake of argument. The Torah was considered and is still considered a holy book by the Jewish people. Yes, Christ had theological disagreements with the Jewish Pharisees of His time - agreed.

Christ's disagreements were reaffirmations of the Torah, not annulments of the Torah. The Pharisees had perverted the Torah to their own man-made inventions, making the Law with all of the rabbinical edicts extremely difficult to follow.



How many animals did he sacrifice and how much money did he change in the temple?


The ritual activities in the Temple were roles reserved for the High Priest, Levites et al. Most Jews weren't involved in the daily priestly functions for a whole host and variety of reasons that are outlined in the Torah. That doesn't mean they throw out the Torah just because they couldn't participate.

Money changing in the Temple was not a Torah concept.
edit on 28-8-2013 by CookieMonster09 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2013 @ 09:36 PM
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reply to post by CookieMonster09
 

You have a severe bias from exposing yourself to rabbis and such as if they have some sort of special knowledge better than "ordinary" Christians.
All I can do is laugh at your post until I can't see for the tears in my eyes.



posted on Aug, 28 2013 @ 09:41 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by colbe
 

Everyone notice, jim did not give the name exactly of who canonized Scripture OR the exact year.
You are looking through catholic glasses where you have to wait around to have the Pope tell you if something is true or not.

. . . which one are those?
Matthew | Mark | Luke | John | Acts | Romans | 1 Corinthians | 2 Corinthians | Galatians | Ephesians | Philippians | Colossians | 1 Thessalonians | 2 Thessalonians | 1 Timothy | 2 Timothy | Titus | Philemon | Hebrews | James | 1 Peter | 2 Peter | 1 John | 2 John | 3 John | Jude | Revelation

Our Lord wants you to become Roman Catholic.
The schismatic sect of Rome.
edit on 28-8-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


You can't back up your Athanasius canonized Scripture you threw out there so you turn to the personal.

Athanasius was Catholic in belief. Read his quotes. I wish you believed or will come to believe in Jesus' presence in the Eucharist. Athanasius did/does. Athanasius is not a proto-type Protestant.

socrates58.blogspot.com...

God wants all Christians to believe the Pope, He is error free on matters of faith and morals. A divine charism. God has it planned out. You decide your interpretation of a Catholic book, the Bible (figure it out) so you are your own pope. This is the fruit of Protestantism. God never wished this, division by the thousands and the awful errors (heresies).

The faith is the faith, there is only one. God wants you to become Roman Catholic. Who did Roman Catholicism "schism" from jim?

A return to the subject of the OP. You accept Barnabas in the Canon of Scripture and reject His words outside of Scripture. Makes no sense. No one was capable of sharing anything else Barnabas said or did? Believe there is an oral tradition, God's oral Word. Martin Luther came up with Sola Scriptura NOT God. Have you ever read Luther's awful ant-Jewish quotes?

I posted Barnabas' words about the change in the Sabbath. Hmmm...74 A.D. was the year as opposed to an October 31, 1517 denial of those words by the first revolters on up until today by present day Protestants.

+ + +


Barnabas

"We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead" (Letter of Barnabas 15:6–8 [A.D. 74]).



posted on Aug, 28 2013 @ 09:52 PM
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Nice .. like it

However, in Reverand Wrights Church here in Chicago there are no white people!!

Got to LOVE OBAMA



posted on Aug, 28 2013 @ 10:07 PM
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You have a severe bias from exposing yourself to rabbis and such as if they have some sort of special knowledge better than "ordinary" Christians. All I can do is laugh at your post until I can't see for the tears in my eyes.

I never stated anything every in this thread about "rabbis having some sort of special knowledge" better than "ordinary Christians". I never pitted rabbis against Christians. Again, your clownish attempts at slander and defamation only make your arguments look that much more ridiculous.

Ironically, many Jews believe in Christ, both today and back when Christ lived. To slander rabbis is both naive and, frankly, unintelligent, perhaps even bordering on stereotyping or far worse. At the very least, it's offensive. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

There are plenty of Messianic rabbis, Jewish Christians, Hebrew Catholics, Jewish Catholics, and more who all believe in Christ.

Many Catholic priests study Hebrew, and are tutored by rabbis to better understand Scripture. To slam rabbis is wrong on so many levels, and only goes to show your sheer ignorance and bias.

Most Gentile Christians will have a difficult time pleading their case before G-d when they are asked why they didn't keep the Sabbath as G-d had commanded. "I thought it was on Sunday" or "My church told me so" won't cut the mustard.

Making excuses is not a plan for salvation. Quoting dead theologians that perverted G-d's commandments won't get you very far when it comes to salvation.

Unfortunately, your brand of Christianity believes you can throw out the Ten Commandments, and violate all of G-d's rules and regulations without consequences. This is neither biblical, nor is it Christ's teaching. Trying to justify these blatant and obvious errors at the altar of G-d could prove to have disastrous eternal consequences.

Live like Christ lived. Read what He read. Pray as He prayed. Follow the Torah and Ten Commandments as He did. Celebrate the Sabbath (on the correct day) as Christ did.

If we want to emulate Christ, we should live and do as He did, and not follow after the misguided perversions of the Gentile Church that has warped and twisted His words and teachings to their opposite meaning.
edit on 28-8-2013 by CookieMonster09 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2013 @ 11:41 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 

You can't back up your Athanasius canonized Scripture you threw out there so you turn to the personal.
What is there to "back up"? Athanasius was a real person, you just admitted that.
He had a list of the New Testament books that he used by giving it to the priests in charge of the churches that he was over as the Bishop of Alexandria, of what they were authorised to use for the services, that was the exact same list as I posted above.
Go to Wikipedia and read the articles on Athanasius and the New Testament canon.

You accept Barnabas in the Canon of Scripture and reject His words outside of Scripture.
I accept that Paul mentions the name in Galatians and 1 Corinthians. I don't accept that the same person that Paul mentioned wrote the so-called Epistle of Barnabas.


Who did Roman Catholicism "schism" from?
The orthodox church, which is why they are called "Roman".
edit on 28-8-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2013 @ 11:53 PM
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reply to post by CookieMonster09
 

To slander rabbis is both naive and, frankly, unintelligent, perhaps even bordering on stereotyping or far worse. At the very least, it's offensive. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
Rabbis are what they are, what I am critical of is people who say they believe in Jesus worshiping them as if they were closer to God than Christians.
That is "slander" against Christianity and Jesus, as if the church is futile and Jesus cannot save, and they Holy Spirit is powerless to enlighten.

Most Gentile Christians will have a difficult time pleading their case before G-d when they are asked why they didn't keep the Sabbath as G-d had commanded. "I thought it was on Sunday" or "My church told me so" won't cut the mustard.
By "cut the mustard", do you mean they are going to Hell? Would you like to see people go to Hell in order to prove that you were right?

Unfortunately, your brand of Christianity believes you can throw out the Ten Commandments, and violate all of G-d's rules and regulations without consequences.
There is no brand like that, that I am aware of. If you are talking about me in particular, I am a Seventh Day Adventist and I don't think that religion fits your description. I think they have a pretty good reputation for being strict about following regulations.

Celebrate the Sabbath (on the correct day) as Christ did.
How did Jesus "celebrate" the Sabbath? Does the Torah say to celebrate the Sabbath, or does it say to observe it?
edit on 29-8-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 12:09 AM
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reply to post by Jimbuik12345
 

. . . in Reverend Wrights Church here in Chicago . . .
I had a conversation with one of his daughters on the phone a while back that I thought was interesting. We recorded it and you can download the MP3 file of it, if anyone wants the web address. You probably wouldn't because have probably talked to her yourself, but other people might.



posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 07:16 PM
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Rabbis are what they are, what I am critical of is people who say they believe in Jesus worshiping them as if they were closer to God than Christians. That is "slander" against Christianity and Jesus, as if the church is futile and Jesus cannot save, and they Holy Spirit is powerless to enlighten.

Not once did I ever compare rabbis to Christians, nor did I ever state that one was better than another.



By "cut the mustard", do you mean they are going to Hell? Would you like to see people go to Hell in order to prove that you were right?


All I am saying is that disobeying G-d's commandments is a poor plan for salvation. Whether someone goes to "Hell" or not, is none of my business.



There is no brand like that, that I am aware of. If you are talking about me in particular, I am a Seventh Day Adventist and I don't think that religion fits your description. I think they have a pretty good reputation for being strict about following regulations.


The average Christian does not follow G-d's laws as outlined in the Torah. They do not keep the Sabbath, they do not eat kosher, and they certainly have no qualms about idolatry. They don't celebrate any of the Jewish festivals as G-d commanded. They do, however, celebrate Easter and Christmas, both of which have very strong pagan roots, and are both found nowhere in the Bible. Basically, they toss out G-d's rule book, and use Christ's promises of salvation as an excuse to disobey.



How did Jesus "celebrate" the Sabbath? Does the Torah say to celebrate the Sabbath, or does it say to observe it?

The Sabbath is a day of joy, where G-d's people are free to rest and engage in all matters spiritual. It is a hint at the World to Come, as the Jews would state, and a day to be joyful. The Sabbath is not meant to be a day where religious observances are a chore and a hassle. When observed properly, the Sabbath is a day to look forward to, a day of joy and even happiness. The Sabbath is "celebrated" in such a manner.



posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by colbe
 

You can't back up your Athanasius canonized Scripture you threw out there so you turn to the personal.
What is there to "back up"? Athanasius was a real person, you just admitted that.
He had a list of the New Testament books that he usedText by giving it to the priests in charge of the churches that he was over as the Bishop of Alexandria, of what they were authorised to use for the services, that was the exact same list as I posted above.
Go to Wikipedia and read the articles on Athanasius and the New Testament canon.

You accept Barnabas in the Canon of Scripture and reject His words outside of Scripture.
I accept that Paul mentions the name in Galatians and 1 Corinthians. I don't accept that the same person that Paul mentioned wrote the so-called Epistle of Barnabas.


Who did Roman Catholicism "schism" from?
The orthodox church, which is why they are called "Roman".
edit on 28-8-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


Makes no sense, you try to deny Pope Damasus decided the Canon which your KJV Bible contains less the seven books Luther threw out. Instead, you declare Athanasius decided the Canon but his list contains a couple of books not in the official Canon. And...

Athanasius is a recognized Catholic saint, Doctor of the Church who believes in all things Catholic. I just posted a link with Athanasius' quotes and beliefs. Read them. Athanisus believes in the Eucharist, you don't so why declare He decided the Canon? The early Christians in the east BEFORE the Orthodox Schism in 1054 recognized the authority of Rome.

And why are you mentioning a hierarchy, bishop and priests? You reject the ministerial priesthood. You cancel your own previous protests and disbelief of both by your comments above. You try to back up your claim referencing the ministerial priesthood and the hierarchy Our Lord set up. Athanasius confected the Eucharist, he was/is a bishop who was first ordained a ministerial priest.

You don't believe the quote came from Barnabas. Your choice, doesn't matter, men of that time and after in the second century believed the same. The Lord's Day and Sunday worship is written in the Didache (70 A.D.) and I shared Ignatius and Justin Martyr, read their quotes agreed with the Barnabas quote. Give YOUR meaning of the "Lord's Day" as written in Revelation 1:10.

Roman Catholicism did not break from the Orthodox, it is a fact, the Orthodox split from the faith rejecting the authority of the Pope in 1054.


God bless you jim,


colbe



posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 09:51 PM
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reply to post by CookieMonster09
 

The average Christian does not follow G-d's laws as outlined in the Torah. They do not keep the Sabbath, they do not eat kosher, and they certainly have no qualms about idolatry. They don't celebrate any of the Jewish festivals as G-d commanded. They do, however, celebrate Easter and Christmas, both of which have very strong pagan roots, and are both found nowhere in the Bible. Basically, they toss out G-d's rule book, and use Christ's promises of salvation as an excuse to disobey.
Well, that is just weird that you even think that, in my opinion.
What are you, even?
And who are you to criticize Christians?
The first part of your post is a good example of why I have to just laugh at your posts, saying you do not criticize Christians and that you don't "say" that you think rabbis are better.
Just go ahead and think whatever you want, that's your right but don't tell me or all the Christians in the world what to do, thank you very much.
I think you are stuck in superstition and the commandments of men.
Jesus came to free us from man-made laws and to teach us that we are directly responsible to God, and no one else.
Worshiping a book written by men is idolatry, sorry for having to say that but you need to have a wake-up that God did not write the Old Testament, people did.

Six days thou shalt labor but on the seventh, you are to rest (to paraphrase).
It does not say: 'Sunday through Friday you can work but not Saturday'.
As far as I am concerned, if I read the ten commandments, I can work out the days any way I want, since I am not living in a tent in the Sinai desert with a fire on the mountain and a murderous tyrant named Moses looking at whatever I do.
Maybe in that environment, it was the only practical way to have a sabbath, to have everyone do it on the same day.
I think trying to enforce that today makes no sense with things like an international date line that makes it all a bit arbitrary.
Everyone should keep the day that they feel comfortable with and if they are comfortable with statues of saints in their church, go ahead and attend that church.
What I am against is anyone thinking that they can tell someone else what day they have to keep, whether it is Saturday or Sunday.

The Sabbath is "celebrated" in such a manner.
The "such manner" is, according to your post, the "proper manner". So, what is the "celebration" part?
And you skipped the part I wanted to know besides that, how you think that Jesus celebrated the Sabbath, since you claimed earlier that he did.
edit on 29-8-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 09:52 PM
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Time doesn't exist in gods realm


10 million years ago is the same as 10 million years tomorrow as it is 10 million years today.


Kinda hard to explain.
edit on 29-8-2013 by superluminal11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 10:09 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 

. . . you try to deny Pope Damasus decided the Canon which your KJV Bible contains . . .
Who cares what a Pope said, when the thing already existed before he made a pronouncement on it.
He did not create it.

Athanasius is a recognized Catholic saint . . .
So are Mary and Joseph but they were not Catholics.

I just posted a link with Athanasius' quotes and beliefs. Read them.
I have several books by Athanasius that I have read. I have all the writings of the Apostolic fathers and the early saints. That is something I started reading thirty years ago, along with early church history and the canons of the church.

. . . why declare He decided the Canon?
I don't. He is an example that is well documented and easy to understand, of someone who had the list of the New Testament books at an early date.

You don't believe the quote came from Barnabas.
I have in my hand the recognised standard, and authoritative, version of the Epistle of Barnabas, and that blurb that you got from a propaganda web site is not in it.

The Lord's Day and Sunday worship is written in the Didache (70 A.D.) and I shared Ignatius and Justin Martyr, read their quotes . . .
I haven't gotten to those after being discouraged from it by the bogus nature of this list of references you came up with, based on the one that I did check.
Years ago I did go through every one of those Lord's Day references and why I spent so much money thirty years ago buying all those books, and none of them ever panned out as making a direct connection between the "Lord's Day", and Sunday.
You believe in a myth, as far as I am concerned. And also as far as I am concerned, you are welcome to it. Just don't expect for me to believe it too.
edit on 29-8-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 10:40 PM
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Here's a lesson in etymology.

Sabbath comes from the Hebrew Shabbath, which means "rest". The Hebrew word for Saturn is Shabbtai. Saturn is the root word in the word "Saturday".

The 7 day week, in case you haven't noticed, derives its logic and nomenclature from the 7 "visible" planets i.e. Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, Saturn and the Sun.

The Hebrew concept of the "sabbath" i.e. a day of rest, occurred on Saturday; or, to be more in line with biblical chronology, begins at Friday sundown and ends on Saturday sundown... "It was evening, it was morning - day 1".



posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 10:57 PM
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reply to post by Astrocyte
 

The Hebrew word for Saturn is Shabbtai.
Saturn is called Chiun in Amos 5:26.
Since the word you mentioned is not in the Bible, it was probably picked up later.
Since their sabbath was on Saturday, likely they named the planet that was associated with that day after their sabbath, and not the other way around.
edit on 29-8-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 11:07 PM
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I think you are stuck in superstition and the commandments of men. Jesus came to free us from man-made laws and to teach us that we are directly responsible to God, and no one else. Worshiping a book written by men is idolatry, sorry for having to say that but you need to have a wake-up that God did not write the Old Testament, people did.


The Ten Commandments are not "superstition". The Bible is the Word of G-d, not a book "written by men". You either believe that G-d had a hand in writing the Bible, or you don't. If you just view the Bible as a history book, then obviously I would beg to differ, as would most any G-d fearing person.



What are you, even? And who are you to criticize Christians?

The criticism is well-deserved. If you have a biblical defense of idolatry, paganism, and any of the other errors I mentioned, then I am all ears.



As far as I am concerned, if I read the ten commandments, I can work out the days any way I want

Uh, no. G-d doesn't say you can follow some rules, but not others. In Catholicism, they refer to this as a being a "Cafeteria Catholic", where you pick and choose those parts of Catholicism that you want to follow, and ignore the rest.

Ignoring G-d's commandments is a perilous journey, and not an advisable plan for personal salvation.



The "such manner" is, according to your post, the "proper manner". So, what is the "celebration" part? And you skipped the part I wanted to know besides that, how you think that Jesus celebrated the Sabbath, since you claimed earlier that he did.

I never used the term, "proper". Those are your words, not mine. Jews to this day celebrate the Sabbath in hundreds of different ways, some more traditional than others. As a Torah observant Jewish rabbi, and with his parents being Jewish, Christ celebrated the Sabbath as was the religious custom.

And, as I said before, which you chose to ignore, the Sabbath is a day of joy, prayer, reflection, rest, and spiritual uplift. Christ celebrated the Sabbath by teaching others the Torah in a house of prayer ("synagogue"):


Mark 6:2: And when the sabbath was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were in admiration at his doctrine, saying: How came this man by all these things? and what wisdom is this that is given to him, and such mighty works as are wrought by his hands?



Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he was brought up: and he went into the synagogue, according to his custom, on the sabbath day; and he rose up to read.



Luke 4:31 And he went down into Capharnaum, a city of Galilee, and there he taught them on the sabbath days.



Luke 13:10 And he was teaching in their synagogue on their sabbath.


And, yes, Christ was a teacher of the Torah. The New Testament didn't exist at the time.



posted on Aug, 29 2013 @ 11:08 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 





Saturn is called Chiun in Amos 5:26.


Lets be serious. We don't know what "chiun" in Amos really means; nor do we know what lots of words in books like Proverbs, Psalms, and above all, Job, really mean. At best, we can make inferences. And not everyone makes the same inferences. Simply peruse the available literature and it's clear that scholars are engaged in a guessing game with each other.



Since the word you mentioned is not in the Bible, it was probably picked up later.


That's true. I think the word "shabbtai" if my memory serves me correctly, can be found in the Jerusalem Talmud, which was written circa 400 CE. The word probably dates further.




Since their sabbath was on Saturday, likely they named the planet that was associated with that day after their sabbath, and not the other way around.


The habit of naming the days of the week after the 7 planets derives from the Babylonians. I'm sure the Hebrew "7 days of creation" are analgous to these days. Thus, I imagine the Hebrew word "Shabbtai" isn't a later creation, but was inherently linked to the the 7th day, Shabbat, which corresponded to the planet Saturn.



posted on Aug, 30 2013 @ 02:44 AM
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reply to post by Astrocyte
 

Simply peruse the available literature and it's clear that scholars are engaged in a guessing game with each other.
I am familiar with that since I try to read the Hebrew text myself.
I agree with the "guessing".
People who don't know Hebrew get really angry for some reason when you tell them that.
They want to live in a little fantasy world where people who study the Old Testament really understand what it says.
edit on 30-8-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)







 
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