The human clone and having a soul...¿, page 2

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reply posted on 29-12-2011 @ 11:32 AM by zatara

Originally posted by Helixer
reply to post by zatara

A human, is human, is a human. It does not matter if a clone has psychological issues or not. If clones do really have psychological defects, I would say that it is because of the technological rather than some spiritual shortcomings.

The irony is that the human body is really only about 20% human. The rest is water, bacteria, viruses, minerals, weird symbiotic organisms like the mitochondria that occupy all our cells.
edit on 29-12-2011 by Helixer because: sp

So what you say is.... If clones do really have psychological defects it is because of their "failing" brain-structure? Would that imply that the cloning proces didn't go as expected....and because the brain is the soul, the wrong "connections" in the brain will show in the mental health of the clone.

And for the second part of your reply...you can go further than that. An atom is mostly empty space....
A human is mostly empty space.....

edit on 29/12/2011 by zatara because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 29-12-2011 @ 11:50 AM by Helixer

Originally posted by zatara

Originally posted by Helixer
reply to post by zatara

A human, is human, is a human. It does not matter if a clone has psychological issues or not. If clones do really have psychological defects, I would say that it is because of the technological rather than some spiritual shortcomings.

The irony is that the human body is really only about 20% human. The rest is water, bacteria, viruses, minerals, weird symbiotic organisms like the mitochondria that occupy all our cells.
edit on 29-12-2011 by Helixer because: sp

So what you say is.... If clones do really have psychological defects it is because of their "failing" brain-structure? Would that imply that the cloning proces didn't go as expected....and because the brain is the soul, the wrong "connections" in the brain will show in the mental health of the clone.

And for the second part of your reply...you can go further than that. An atom is mostly empty space....
A human is mostly empty space.....

edit on 29/12/2011 by zatara because: (no reason given)

Well if you are going to take it to the subatomic level, then we are not human but the fabric of matter. There are no "human" molecules or atoms.

reply posted on 29-12-2011 @ 11:51 AM by Itisnowagain

reply to post by Helixer

So the clone would be the same as us and everything else, an appearance and disappearance of nothing.

reply posted on 29-12-2011 @ 11:57 AM by Helixer

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Helixer

So the clone would be the same as us and everything else, an appearance and disappearance of nothing.

I think so. I think a clone, defective or not will be fully human in a biological/scientific sense and in a spiritual and ethical/moral sense.

Would you liquidate a low functioning Down's Syndrome child even if you think he has no soul?

reply posted on 29-12-2011 @ 03:00 PM by absolutely

Originally posted by Sahabi
I can explain to you why plants and rocks are expressions of the unified consciousness. Some call this unified consciousness 'God.' If we get all the way down to fundamental concepts, I believe in an interconnected, co-dependent, non-permanent, subjective fractal pantheism.

To view each animal, each tree and plant, all the rocks, water, and air as manifestations of the Divine allows me to better empathize, respect, and love existence. Does this make me evil?

sorry but yes, u love god while god is evil oness so this does makes u evil will

u believe in object existence so u mean clearly god life, while existence is objective bc really true so belongs to freedom life before and after matters true realities still constant facts

reply posted on 29-12-2011 @ 03:02 PM by MrUncreated

Are twins born without souls, because they have a copy of someone's body and DNA?
What is a soul?
One could say it is having a conscience, and the capacity to feel sorrow for the suffering of others.
Then one could also say, there are many who are born without souls, these days.
Are they all clones?
Who the hell knows...

edit on 29-12-2011 by MrUncreated because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 29-12-2011 @ 03:40 PM by absolutely

reply to post by MrUncreated

souls are always free living senses through powerful freedom objective presence constancy

while conscious freedom is always by definition alone out of all and everything so the opposite of soul concept

souls are positive ends while conscious are positive source so true source in concept of positive being present

reply posted on 29-12-2011 @ 03:45 PM by pikypiky

reply to post by zatara

Um. Let's see. First I don't know if human-clones have soul. Second, if said human-clones are devoid of "normal" human emotions, such as empathy and compassion and of laughing and crying, and rely on directions/guidance/instructions from others, then perhaps they have no soul. Third, if these alleged "human-clones" are NOT able to reproduce in the "natural" sense (as "nature intended" sans advanced technological intervention), there is no "soul matrix", only matter moving about in empty shells/forms.

edit on 2011-12-29 by pikypiky because: To correct for typo-error.

reply posted on 30-12-2011 @ 03:04 PM by zatara

reply to post by pikypiky

Why would you expect a human-clone to have mental "defects" while animals have been cloned succesfully without significant different behaviour? Would you not agree that we could learn about the relation between a human body and the conception with the soul? Or would you think that it will always remain a mystery because it can't be studied?

edit on 30/12/2011 by zatara because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 31-12-2011 @ 11:56 AM by Itisnowagain

reply to post by pikypiky

All babies learn from other humans, to be human.

edit on 31-12-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 3-1-2012 @ 08:50 AM by Psychoparrot

I do believe that cloning is now not uncommon in the farming industry, I remember seeing a news article at least a year ago of a Scottish farmer with a whole herd of cloned cows.

Surely a human clone would be the same as any of us, ie a mixture of genetic makeup and upbringing. If they had been cloned for spare parts and kept in a captive environment, with no affection/education/nurturing, then they would be in pretty poor shape psychologically, and maybe appear less than human. But that would be an illusion......and a terrifying development in medical science. Sadly, I cannot believe that it hasn't been at least attempted in some remote establishment, for some mega rich neurotic/narcisstic individual determined to live forever.

Wasn't the Gov. of California, Arnie, in a film involving clones - was it Total Recall?

reply posted on 3-1-2012 @ 10:07 AM by RobertPaulsim

To clone is to copy the physical vessel. Nature normally does
that, so this is a common task from evolved consciousness.

Materialization is the last step of the translation from abstract to
concrete. In other words: to clone the physical (3D) makes no
importance to higher mental complexes (6D an 7D).

This is a very common pattern: to think that the body has a
soul when the relationship is indeed reverse. NDE phenomenon
prooves that conscience can survive a completely dead body.

=) Just my humble opinion.

reply posted on 3-1-2012 @ 10:29 AM by absolutely

reply to post by RobertPaulsim

exactly, like in concept of cloning right it would concern what is absolutely true, since only what is absolutely true can b objectively the same, but before getting excited about seeing that idea as justifying cloning, stay back still as not existing but simply objectively thinking loud

what is true is beyond objectivity object, when it is objective source so always absolutely superior to any objective fact, so u cant clone what is true even in most objective terms that u can touch it clearly

this is for one,

two, what is true is not object but any object exist absolutely from truth value

so what is true is freedom value out of true conception as being an object constancy abstraction

freedom value out of object abstraction from both different side, absolute freedom out of object conception and relative freedom out of object constancy abstraction, so superior freedom and positive freedom

the freedom value of true fact is the common share value of superior freedom and positive freedom out of same object true constancy fact growth

freedom by definition cannot b cloned it stopped to b free then to have a clone possible

so how are u going to clone a value freedom that is actually result of different freedom values too

reply posted on 7-1-2012 @ 01:15 PM by zatara

Originally posted by RobertPaulsim
To clone is to copy the physical vessel. Nature normally does
that, so this is a common task from evolved consciousness.

Materialization is the last step of the translation from abstract to
concrete. In other words: to clone the physical (3D) makes no
importance to higher mental complexes (6D an 7D).

This is a very common pattern: to think that the body has a
soul when the relationship is indeed reverse. NDE phenomenon
prooves that conscience can survive a completely dead body.

=) Just my humble opinion.