Fantastic video: Woman slams the injustices of feminism!

reply to post by kaylaluv


Loyalty and value aren't necessarily tied to abuse. They also aren't mutually exclusive.

You might not understand that, but it doesn't make it less true.

Originally posted by kaylaluv
reply to post by Frira

 

...

I also have problems with people who say they had no idea their abuser was like this. People as sick at that are not able to hide it for very long - I'm talking a matter of days or weeks at most. You probably had an inkling of her violent nature within a month of the marriage, yet you stayed 16 years. Unbelievable.

Yes. I knew there were problems-- but only near the end did I begin to allow myself to believe she was not only crazy-- but getting worse despite my "I'll stick my her and love her, because if I don't who will?" frame of mind. It is not easy to admit all your work is failing. And it was.

So, I had in her in college while I continued my professional work and took care of my infant son-- when I got transferred to another state. Officing at home was no longer a viable option.

I lived and worked among and with the US Marine Corps. What a God send. The stress of my life was nothing compared to theirs. I loved those people and they loved my family. The neighbors never said a word to me about it, but Marine wives simply stepped in and took care of my son while I was at my office or on base.

When I was home-- I was the unofficial (as far as I knew-- they neighborhood may have drawn up documents!) "block Dad" and so my son had plenty of friends and playmates. Most of the Marine fathers were away-- but quite a few retired Marines lived on the block-- so I had lots of help and companionship. I swear-- I really think pretty much everyone knew my wife had issues, but loved her anyway-- and she started to get better.

We got pregnant again. I was only practicing!

More insidiousness- you think you are getting past the abuse, and you have support-- and you think you can see light at the end of the tunnel. But truth is, no one stops abusing-- at least, I have never heard of it happening.

I got transferred back when my second child, my daughter, was born. This time I was able to office at home, my wife had her degree, and we rented a house on a fine four acre rural lot. I was my own boss, and poured myself into my family and my work in balanced measure-- the full-time At home Dad.

My wife got a semi-professional career started, but the monster soon came back stronger and larger than ever. Her work was not going well. She believed the neighbors, or my employer, or my family-- or all of the above had planted eavesdropping devices in our home. She was in constant and dramatic turmoil at work and every night I would listen to her talk about how her co-workers were trying to get rid of her.

Her violence went from months or weeks apart to several nights a week. She would interrupt me at my home-office desk and berate me for about an hour. Can you imagine? That is pure Borderline Personality Disorder-- no other persons can sustain the effort that long. But I did not know that at the time. She would wake in the middle of the night, kicking and hitting me yelling something about the ghost of her cat waking her up every night, slamming doors at two in the morning and stomping around.

On the rare occasion she had the kids to herself, I would come home to find trouble in paradise. The kids crying in their rooms, my wife yelling at them through their doors and telling me that they were grounded. I would intervene after hearing her out, and spring the kids from jail and take them out with me in those circumstances.

There was a twenty-four hour Wal-Mart in the County seat, and very often, we refugees would be found quietly going through the aisles-- my son asleep in the cart, my daughter asleep in my chest pack child carrier and my black eyes hidden by my sunglasses... at midnight.

I did get her to agree to see a psychologist with me. She was worse than worthless. As part of my profession, I did quite a bit of counseling and knew how to diagnose in those days well enough to know when to make referrals. The therapist we had did not. She never guessed that BPD was at work. Looking back-- I think, What are the odds?

I was an idiot. I was used to bi-polar and other such more common and more easily noticed disorders; but had never heard of Borderline Personality Disorder-- that was one of those things specialists dealt with-- so I didn't need to know and in my profession, I would not likely have a close enough relation with someone I encountered to need to diagnose. I had my own specialty. So, in hindsight, I can answer my own question: Our therapist, also a specialist (in interpersonal communication) did not know my wife well enough to see the diagnosis criteria and so saw only the way communication strategies might help.

She once asked me, "When you say your wife will not listen to you, what do you mean?"
"I mean, she plugs her ears with her fingers and begins shouting."
"Oh..."

And lastly.. and short...

Originally posted by ScorpioRising
[BTW, my mother had several abusive relationships and I turned out perfectly fine, so did my brothers, and so are my own children.
I am glad that it appears you have never been through it yourself, I hope you are able to stick to your strength and leave straight away should you ever be faced with it.

I haven't been married to an abuser, but I dated someone for about 6 months who turned out to have a very controlling/obsessive/possessive nature. I got out of it as soon as I realized that. It would have been a marriage in hell had I stayed with this person. I'm not sure what the issue is with abused men, but abused women tend to have already existing self-esteem issues. A woman with high self-esteem is much less likely to put herself in this type of situation, much less stay in it. So, I would agree with you that women with low self-esteem are going to believe their abusers who tell them they are worthless.

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by ScorpioRising
[BTW, my mother had several abusive relationships and I turned out perfectly fine, so did my brothers, and so are my own children.
I am glad that it appears you have never been through it yourself, I hope you are able to stick to your strength and leave straight away should you ever be faced with it.

I haven't been married to an abuser, but I dated someone for about 6 months who turned out to have a very controlling/obsessive/possessive nature. I got out of it as soon as I realized that. It would have been a marriage in hell had I stayed with this person. I'm not sure what the issue is with abused men, but abused women tend to have already existing self-esteem issues. A woman with high self-esteem is much less likely to put herself in this type of situation, much less stay in it. So, I would agree with you that women with low self-esteem are going to believe their abusers who tell them they are worthless.

Sometimes the abuse doesn't start for years. By then, it's too late. You have fallen in love and poured your soul, trust, loyalty into this person. 6 months is no time at all and you had a lucky escape. as I said, it is not that easy for many others. As for the male side of it, many men have self esteem issues but people never seem to worry about that because, you know, it's a man. They (apparently) shouldn't need the comforting.... and that is another inequality where women benefit and men suffer.

reply to post by Aeons


I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on this. Severely abusive relationships don't get better - they just end with someone getting killed, and sometimes its the children. But if you think it's better to end up that way rather then get a divorce, you go right ahead.

I'm not talking about divorcing someone because their hair turns grey, or they get fat, or they get cancer. I'm talking about getting out of a situation where you fear for your life or your children's lives.

Originally posted by kaylaluv
reply to post by Frira

 

To bring this somewhat back to topic - men should get out of abusive relationships and get their female abuser sent to prison, just like abused women should with their male abusers.

Funny you should mention that.

I dealt with quite a few abuse victims-- and very few abusers. Guess why? One, abusers do not seek help. Two, I didn't have to help a "client" if I didn't like them.

I never took my own advice. EVERY single "client" who came to me with a black eye or worse-- I made it clear and certain: "Get out! Get out now!"

I did not know it at the time, but co-workers and clients knew. Several told me much later that they had known but did not know what to do to help me-- I was the one who was there to help them. "You are athletic and graceful-- not a klutz, and we never believed your stories." said one when a group surrounded me as a supportive surprise (much like you see in drug interventions) just after the divorce.

I did call the police, as did neighbors. The police would arrive to find three things:

My wife hostile, angry, threatening.
My children clinging to me for protection from her.
Me calm, in charge, "Thank you so much for you help officers-- I was afraid things might escalate; but she has calmed down-- she had bad day at work, and I could not get her to calm down when I called."

But even that may not have been necessary...

One night, late, she squared off at me in the kitchen-- it is not the worst incident-- it is the most telling regarding this thread.

I was in for an hour or so of verbal abuse, usually ending with her breaking something important to me or the kids-- something irreplaceable-- of which we were by then running low.

In the midst of he tirade, and to my horror, my son, about five, appeared behind her in the kitchen. Her yelling had woken him and he wanted a glass of water. She was startled by his presence, opened a drawer, pulled out a carving knife, pointed at me. I stepped back and she grabbed my son, and pointed the knife at him. I retreated, quickly, to the den and the front door, opened it and stepped away.

She ran out the door still holding my son and the knife. I closed and locked the front door as I watched her hurry down the driveway. I then sprinted through the house, out the back door, through the woods around the house and she never heard me approach. I had my arm hooked around my son at a dead sprint, and was out of reach from her with him before she could react. In the back, door, locked it, grabbed the cordless phone and dialed 911 while barricading my son, my daughter and myself in the bedroom.

The police arrived to find her attempting to shove the door open, knife in hand. They handcuffed her-- I do not know how that went down as I could not see.

Lengthy discussion with me, my son not letting loose of my neck and my daughter STILL sleeping! The Sheriff and the local police came out because the local police, while not their jurisdiction, were closer. There were at least six officers-- good men all. I'm not famous, but was well known locally-- one of the few professionals around that area. The police wanted to arrest her, but some were willing to listen to me, and agreed that the scandal would be harmful for the innocent (me and my children).

They pow-wowed in my kitchen while two stayed outside where my wife was in their custody. Great idea they had. We all thought it was. Take her to the women's shelter and just not tell them that she was the violent one. They said the Captain might read the report in the morning and demand that they put her in jail, but it was worth a try.

That is when the activists, good intentioned as they probably were, got a hold of my wife-- at the shelter. Telling her that if she pressed charges against ME-- they would set her up with a house of her own-- no qualifying and low interest-- and they would provide the attorneys who got that police report and the others buried-- I forget what the legal term for it is. It took time to do that, and cook our home finance books to leave me with nothing but debt and her with enough to buy a beach house five hundred miles away.

Now did the activists at the shelter know about the police report? I doubt it. Did her attorneys know? Absolutely! And they, activist for the feminists, not only knew of that night-- but of all the others.

I cannot write about the details-- I cannot face re-living it all just now-- but the poison in the squirt gun she set next to them in a play fort and then left for over half an hour-- trip to ER.

The rat poison she had secretly bought and again to a different ER-- I believe so she would not get reported. Munchhausen by proxy, perhaps.

Even now, I know my ex-wife belongs in prison-- yet even now, I would not want her there. I want her helped and healed.

I need a drink

If I may get back on topic for a minute:

I found her intelligent and very interesting personally. As a man, I've often found many of the inequities between the sexes (in both directions) troubling, but the most troubling part of it was the pushback received when one tries to discuss it.

If, for instance, a woman discusses the societal shortcomings of women there doesn't seem to be much of a problem. People may agree or disagree, but that's life.

On the other hand, I have (many times) tried to peacefully and rationally (I feel) discuss some of the societal shortcomings in relation to men. The response is rarely met with anything but scorn, I've been called a misogynist, and the basic response is the suck it up or that nothing was wrong with it.

This is a problem, and I feel it's well along enough in human existence that men should be able to begin to do what women have already done; had a cultural revolution. For a great number of reasons I feel it's not only important, but terribly essential for men to begin to change the narrow gender roles that we have. We've not really fought them, and while we don't have to fight the government, the ingrained mentality of society will be a hard target to push against anyway.

This will probably be my next big area of research and reading. Thanks Op for posting this.

Peace
KJ

reply to post by kaylaluv


I didn't say it was better to stay in an abusive relationship. I said that the traits that make someone do so are usually the best of human traits.

reply to post by Aeons


Well, I'm glad you agree that no one should ever stay in an abusive relationship, however I don't agree that staying in one represents a good trait. I think staying in an abusive relationship usually means you have low self-esteem, and that is never a good trait.

reply to post by Frira


Thank you for taking the time to explain your situation - it could not have been easy. A horrible, horrible situation. I am really trying not to be angry at you for allowing your children to be exposed to such horrific conditions, and to having their lives threatened on a regular basis. This woman does not belong in a beach house - she belongs in a mental institution. And she certainly should not be allowed any custody of these children.

I'm not sure you can blame all of this on the "activists", as you call them, however. You must accept some responsibility for not having her committed, not having her arrested (which may have landed her in some type of mental facility once diagnosed by prison medical personnel), or just not leaving sooner.

It sounds like your wife was angry that you left her, so she's getting her revenge any way she can, and her lawyers were just doing their job for their client - it's what they do. Most lawyers have the conscience of a flea, feminist or not. The legal system is definitely not perfect, and can sometimes appear to favor some groups over others, i.e., women, minorities, etc. I don't think the system was set up to destroy men - I think it was set up to help the more disadvantaged -- for example, a stay-at-home mom in her 40s (whose husband has just left her) with little to no job experience, thus has no means of decent self-support. This type of situation was actually pretty common 30-40-50 years ago. The problem is, that if a woman is so inclined, she can use this system even when she is not so disadvantaged. It just means that someone unscrupulous enough can abuse a system that was set up initially with the best of intentions.

I sincerely hope you are able to heal, but more importantly, I hope your children are able to heal. What a horrible hell for an innocent child to be stuck in. It breaks my heart.

Originally posted by kaylaluv
reply to post by Frira

 

I am really trying not to be angry at you for allowing your children to be exposed to such horrific conditions, and to having their lives threatened on a regular basis.

Don't try too hard-- I don't try at all. My arrogance in not contemplating, "What if I fail?" is inexcusable.

I was just reading the posts about character and staying or leaving, and thought...

"Here lies Casey Jones who died with the throttle in his hand." Casey Jones may have had character, but he died because he was an idiot. Let go of the danged throttle and jump off the train before it wrecks.

I really thought I could stop that train.

Originally posted by Frira

Originally posted by quietlearner

Originally posted by korathin

1) Men are not more violent then women
2) Men on average are merely capable of more destruction when we do become violent.

3) Suppose some guy was being attacked by his wife or gf, what do you think would happen if he tried to defend himself? Heck dozen of guy's have ALREADY DIED IN POLICE CUSTODY from injuries from their wives and gf's, while their wives and gf's didn't have a scratch on them but the police didn't want to arrest them and had to arrest some body!

Add in the fact that WOMEN ARE MORE LIKELY TO USE WEAPONS AND BLUNT OBJECTS, and it is plain to see why people view feminist, female supremacist's the way we do.

Feminism is an out an out hate movement no matter how you dice it.

edit on 31-12-2011 by korathin because: (no reason given)

Its proven fact that men are more prone to violence also its proven fact that men are less capable of empathy
of course there are exceptions if you compare extremes like in anything else.

And it may be that the difference is very slight...

...Straus and Gelles found that in couples reporting spousal violence, 27% of the time the man struck the first blow; in 24% of cases, the woman initiated the violence. The rest of the time, the violence was mutual, with both partners brawling.

The results were the same even when the most severe episodes of violence were analyzed. In order to counteract claims that the reporting data was skewed, female-only surveys were conducted, asking females to self-report, and the data was the same.

-- from Wiki's Domestic Violence article; section: Gender Aspects of Abuse; subsection: Violence Against Men.

but this is already well known from studying the human brain and the effects of sex hormones such as testosterone. This is also no surprise if you think about how humans evolved. The man was usually the one to go hunting for food which requires body strength and a fighter mind, while the women stayed back with the children

btw I wasn't defending feminists actually what I've been saying is that the feminists movement seems to be switching from useful and needed to out of touch and harmful

And THAT last statement is one with which I agree. Equal rights and equal access is one thing-- something men and women ought to want for each other as well as for themselves.

But tyrannical domination as a means to that end is unacceptable from any point of view.

I really, really wish I had the time to take you to task. So I am just going to have to give it a quick one over(and if I get anything wrong please correct me).

It is a flat out Myth that testosterone causes aggression. Well it does cause 'sexual aggression", as in make guy's more likely to "go all out to get the gal". That is why in the honeymoon phase(when gal's do everything and everything for the guy they love) women's testosterone levels increase while men's decrease.

As per testosterone causing "roid rage" and that type of stuff, well it is partly true. The body converts excess testosterone into estrogen. And it is the estrogen that causes the violent mood swings etc. So "Roid rage" is actually "Estrogen Poisoning".

As per the rest of it, Wiki isn't reliable. There was recently a huge stink with wiki and the Men's Rights section being re-edited by radical feminist's. You see Wiki has a big double standard. They take sources from rad feminist's and obscure rad feminist's as "serious" (see how Kimmel is an accepted "authority on DV ", even though he never had any of his results per reviewed ever[become most of the time his work gets debunked]). But require

Also the DV study you quoted was from the 80's. You could look at more recent Penn State studies that show young women commit more stalking and DV then young men. Or the CDC report back in 08 that showed that 3/4ths of women who are victims of DV wouldn't be victims if they weren't abusive first. Republican's are weird like that. When they are about to lose power they always decide to embrace the truth to get guy's to vote for them again, and once they are in power they tow the feminist line, but I digress.

-----
ekk Upon more review The first paragraph is discarded in relation to the person I am immediately replying too. And is more of a reply to a reply upon the person that is ignorantly blaming aggression on testosterone.

Originally posted by korathin

-----
ekk Upon more review The first paragraph is discarded in relation to the person I am immediately replying too. And is more of a reply to a reply upon the person that is ignorantly blaming aggression on testosterone.

edit on 2-1-2012 by korathin because: (no reason given)

Right, and God knows I was not up to being taken to task again-- especially since I agree with you!

So, this is a reply to your reply to a reply to my reply. Just to make that clear.

Didn't read everything new. Just wanted to put in here that men with higher testosterone have been found to play nicer with others.

www.scientificamerican.com...

Enjoy!

Originally posted by korathin

I really, really wish I had the time to take you to task. So I am just going to have to give it a quick one over(and if I get anything wrong please correct me).

It is a flat out Myth that testosterone causes aggression. Well it does cause 'sexual aggression", as in make guy's more likely to "go all out to get the gal". That is why in the honeymoon phase(when gal's do everything and everything for the guy they love) women's testosterone levels increase while men's decrease.

As per testosterone causing "roid rage" and that type of stuff, well it is partly true. The body converts excess testosterone into estrogen. And it is the estrogen that causes the violent mood swings etc. So "Roid rage" is actually "Estrogen Poisoning".

As per the rest of it, Wiki isn't reliable. There was recently a huge stink with wiki and the Men's Rights section being re-edited by radical feminist's. You see Wiki has a big double standard. They take sources from rad feminist's and obscure rad feminist's as "serious" (see how Kimmel is an accepted "authority on DV ", even though he never had any of his results per reviewed ever[become most of the time his work gets debunked]). But require

Also the DV study you quoted was from the 80's. You could look at more recent Penn State studies that show young women commit more stalking and DV then young men. Or the CDC report back in 08 that showed that 3/4ths of women who are victims of DV wouldn't be victims if they weren't abusive first. Republican's are weird like that. When they are about to lose power they always decide to embrace the truth to get guy's to vote for them again, and once they are in power they tow the feminist line, but I digress.

-----
ekk Upon more review The first paragraph is discarded in relation to the person I am immediately replying too. And is more of a reply to a reply upon the person that is ignorantly blaming aggression on testosterone.

edit on 2-1-2012 by korathin because: (no reason given)

so you read a a reply to my reply and happened to pick only one sentence in it and on top of that you call me an ignorant not to mention I was not the one to post the wikipedia study
men are naturally more violent agree? what's crucial in the development of male or female bodies?
surprise its hormones, and which hormone is responsible of development of male characteristics?
testosterone. Mind blown?

I never said testosterone by itself caused violence, its not a drug such as adrenaline but it is definitely linked to an increase in violence
I was not "blaming" violence or aggression to testosterone
its not like if you get injected with testosterone you suddenly go attacking people

let me rewrite that I said again so that you may not disregard my main point and choose to concentrate and debate on a stated yet meaningless semantic misinterpretation of yours
"Its proven fact that men are more prone to violence also its proven fact that men are less capable of empathy "

Originally posted by Aeons
Didn't read everything new. Just wanted to put in here that men with higher testosterone have been found to play nicer with others.

www.scientificamerican.com...

Enjoy!

again I didnt say if you eat or get injected with testosterone you attack people
and that study was done with women only were they had to play a game, there was no reason for any of them to get violent so it really does not apply to my argument
here is one little excerpt from the article you posted that actually agrees with what I said originally
"It seems that testosterone feeds the drive to be victorious, no matter what the means are to that end. If being king of the hill is the goal, high testosterone levels can lead to verbal and physical aggression."

"no matter what means are to that end" including violence

why are you guys focusing on that little sentence I wrote, its off topic