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The future of 9/11 truth

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posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by dillweed
 



Hoop, the difference between you and me is this.

What? Oh, sorry, I see new sentence:

You think that the govt. is looking out for us, while I believe otherwise.

First, I am going to go ahead and assume you mean the US government. Or do you mean any government? Either way, you're right. I do think that my fellow citizens, of which my government is composed, are looking out for me if for no other reason than they are looking out for themselves and as fellow citizens of the same nation the net effect is the same. The EPA inspector is looking out for air polluters because he doesn't care to breathe benzene any more than I do. The bank regulator eats from the same economy that I do. There is no elite reality where consequences are nullified by virtue of membership in some super order.

I know from personal experience that the 'truth' movement is growing, and the vast majority of new members hare on ats find fault with the OS.

Fine, at least you admit its your own opnion. I think otherwise.

If, you believe what you do based on facts, then you leave me no choice but to lower my opinion of you.

So you don't have a very high opinion of those that shape their worldview based on factual observation. Spoken like a adherent of the truth movement.

The cat is out of the bag, they know it is, and unless something is done to curtail this dissent then revolution, in one form or another is inevitable.

Face it, if you shut off your computer or even just click away from conspiracy internet forums, the "issue" disappears. No cat, no bag.

Keep looking thru your rose colored glasses, soon you'll be looking thru a fence.

No wait, I thought you said they were going to declare martial law and come after the truth movement? If anything, I'll be looking through the fence at a fine collection of truthers.




posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 11:20 AM
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Your answer implies that you'll have the right to choose which side of the fence you're on. Because of 9/11 they have systematically dismantled our 'Bill of Rights' and still you continue to support them. You may not think that what you say here matters that much, but I beg to differ. The longer we ignore the threat the govt. poses to our individual freedom, the more likely we are to be behind the fence. Don't be too sure about who you're supporting, they have a long history of breaking their promises.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by dillweed
 





The longer we ignore the threat the govt. poses to our individual freedom, the more likely we are to be behind the fence.


Why is it that I don't feel my freedoms are threatened?
If even a large (not majority) percent of the population feel threatened, there would be more coverage in the media.
But the most I hear in the media is someones cupcake was taken away. Big deal.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by dillweed
 



Because of 9/11 they have systematically dismantled our 'Bill of Rights' and still you continue to support them.


How do you know that I am not one of the "them"? The matter of the fact is since 9/11 I still worship as I choose, I still speak my mind (as do you), I am still able to bear arms (even more so since 9/11), I can still publish as I see fit, if I see fit (as do you), etc. etc., etc. What - because I have to take my shoes off before I board a plane I am living in some Orwellian totalitarian state? I still reserve the right to not get on a plane and nobody strip searches me if I hop in my car to take a drive.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by dillweed
 



Because of 9/11 they have systematically dismantled our 'Bill of Rights' and still you continue to support them.


How do you know that I am not one of the "them"? The matter of the fact is since 9/11 I still worship as I choose, I still speak my mind (as do you), I am still able to bear arms (even more so since 9/11), I can still publish as I see fit, if I see fit (as do you), etc. etc., etc. What - because I have to take my shoes off before I board a plane I am living in some Orwellian totalitarian state? I still reserve the right to not get on a plane and nobody strip searches me if I hop in my car to take a drive.
I would advise you to laminate this response and put it in you wallet. If, five years from now, you are still able to do any of those things, then i'll owe you a big apology, but until then....



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 12:19 PM
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In 2008 I drove into Chicago to see Richard Gage at the Chicago Circle Campus. I sat through his dog and pony show and got into line afterwards. I asked him about the data on tons of steel and tons of concrete on each and every level of the towers. First of all he looked at me like I had grown a second head. I was standing there thinking, "What is wrong with him?" Then he gave me this LAME excuse about the NIST not releasing accurate blue prints.

This is a PHYSICS PROBLEM. Yeah there is structural engineering but that is nothing but APPLIED PHYSICS.

I didn't talk to many people at the event. Most people are making some kind of emotional decisions about what to BELIEVE about this. Physics is not about BELIEVING. In only one video have I seen Steven Jones mention the steel getting thinner toward the top of the building. I have never heard him say we need accurate data on the distributions of steel and concrete. I have never heard him or any other physicist talk about the center of mass of the top 29 stories of the south tower that tilted 22 degrees.

So this whole thing is like a farce that is supposed to be dragged out with complicated but unimportant information until people get bored or disgusted and give up to get on with their lives.

But this also means the scientists and engineers are full of crap and have no integrity worth mentioning. It means simple physics is not being explained so high school kids can understand it properly. I have never heard David Chandler talk about the distributions of steel and concrete either. But Heiwa is out there:

heiwaco.tripod.com...

So going to these sites means putting up with people talking about holographic planes and nukes and jumpers and all sorts of irrelevant crap. So I can see why lots of people just drop out and give up. I don't want to read another moron talking about so and so saying, "Pull It". What people say does not affect the Laws of Physics.

psikeyhackr.livejournal.com...

So if it is physically IMPOSSIBLE for a normal airliner to have destroyed the towers then the physics profession should have figured it out in 2002. But if it is possible they should have figured that out and explained it while including accurate data on the distributions of steel and concrete. But since they did not do either one then we have a physics problem that will never go away because how can the physicists explain not solving it.

9/11 is the Piltdown Man incident of the 21st century.

Science is supposed to be a Truth Movement. This is a HUGE failure of scienTISTS.

psik



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by TMJ1972
if there really was something wrong with the official story the oppositional political power would have pressed the GOTCHA button that hard you would still have the 911 discussion going on in the mainstream news every single day.



The thing is the democrats and republicans are not as opposed to each other as we are made to believe. All five living presidents are buddies. Bush Sr and Clinton are actually good friends.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by dillweed
 



I would advise you to laminate this response and put it in you wallet. If, five years from now, you are still able to do any of those things, then i'll owe you a big apology, but until then....


Well lets get some things straight - I'm not a spring chicken so there's a chance I may not be able to do any of those things - but for other reasons. But, other than that, you're on! That's be December 29, 2016.

Be careful now - there were plenty of people around when they past the Patriot Act that predicted that in 2 years we would all be in FEMA camps and have implanted radio chips and be buying Soylent Green cakes with Ameros. None of which, of course, has come to pass. In fact its been over 10 years since 9/11 we've had two different Presidents, multiple elections, and everyone is still free to criticize the government.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 12:39 PM
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OK Hoop, we'll agree to disagree. I just hope I'm wrong, and hope you have a prosperous and enlightening 'New Year'.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by dillweed
OK Hoop, we'll agree to disagree. I just hope I'm wrong, and hope you have a prosperous and enlightening 'New Year'.


Same to you and yours.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by lampsalot
 



The thing is the democrats and republicans are not as opposed to each other as we are made to believe. All five living presidents are buddies. Bush Sr and Clinton are actually good friends.


That's because in this country, since our Civil War, we have learned that as important as politics may be and as great as some differences may be there is no reason to at least try and be civil. I don't know about the five living Presidents being "buddies" but they part of one of the most exclusive clubs in human history so its not suprising that they are at least publically civil with one another.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by psikeyhackr
 





But if it is possible they should have figured that out and explained it while including accurate data on the distributions of steel and concrete. But since they did not do either one then we have a physics problem that will never go away because how can the physicists explain not solving it.


Could it be that to the experts at the time, the evidence was so overwhelming as to be unquestionable?
You don't need to know the physics equations to understand what happens to an egg if you drop it on a hard floor.

Since you have not been privy to any of the firsthand evidence you are flying blind.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by psikeyhackr
 



So if it is physically IMPOSSIBLE for a normal airliner to have destroyed the towers then the physics profession should have figured it out in 2002.

Huh? We all saw it happen in 2001 so there was nothing to figure out except the detailed mechanics. And that was done primarily to discover if there was anything reasonable to learn from the event.

But if it is possible they should have figured that out....

Again, you don't have to "figure out" if something you saw happened.

....and explained it while including accurate data on the distributions of steel and concrete.

They did include that data in their report - unfortunately you refuse to do anything except make copies of the report.

But since they did not...

They did.

....do either one then we have a physics problem

Well, actually, there is no problem. Its all done.
[quote....that will never go away because how can the physicists explain not solving it.
They did, it won't go away because it was never there and there's nothing left to explain. If you would just read the report - never mind.

9/11 is the Piltdown Man incident of the 21st century.

Nope, the facts are in, and its all over.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by psikeyhackr
 





But if it is possible they should have figured that out and explained it while including accurate data on the distributions of steel and concrete. But since they did not do either one then we have a physics problem that will never go away because how can the physicists explain not solving it.


Could it be that to the experts at the time, the evidence was so overwhelming as to be unquestionable?
You don't need to know the physics equations to understand what happens to an egg if you drop it on a hard floor.

Since you have not been privy to any of the firsthand evidence you are flying blind.


Well if it is so simple and obvious then why can't you or anyone else duplicate the phenomenon of the collapse in a physical model? I mean, it has Only been TEN YEARS.



I haven't even heard of Ryan Mackey trying to actually build the model he described in that Hardfire episode. So it is easy to talk about the physically impossible but making the physics do it is a whole 'nuther story. So the issue becomes one of keeping the laymen ignorant and believing what they are told. And of course dragging this nonsense on ad nauseum until most people leave and go about their business.

psik



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 03:05 PM
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9/11 will be just like JFK, who did it and why will never be known the MSM and Gov cover story will be the known truth the real truth will fade away. The believers of the real why and who will be deemed nut jobs, thus losing any credibility. here are some facts
fact: planes where used ,4 in all.
fact: on that day the mill was holding drills
fact: the towers fell
fact: the Pentagon was hit
fact: shortly after the "P"act became law
fact:FBI knew something was up but did not nor could not share this info
fact:CIA knew something was up but did not nor could not share this info

fact: in 1993 the first attack took place when a van full of explosives was set off in the parking level below the towers as seen here www.fbi.gov...
fact: this too will fade away

edit on 29-12-2011 by bekod because: editting

edit on 29-12-2011 by bekod because: editting



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by psikeyhackr
 





Well if it is so simple and obvious then why can't you or anyone else duplicate the phenomenon of the collapse in a physical model? I mean, it has Only been TEN YEARS.


What kind of reply is that?
Do you expect anyone to build another WTC just to satisfy those few who believe everything is a conspiracy?



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by bekod
9/11 will be just like JFK, who did it and why will never be known the MSM and Gov cover story will be the known truth the real truth will fade away. The believers of the real why and who will be deemed nut jobs, thus losing any credibility.


At this point I no longer care who did it and why. By not explaining the physics some professions have made themselves accomplices after the fact. But as long as they can let people believe airliners could bring the buildings down they can't be charged with anything because the presumed perps are all dead.

The Kennedy assassination did not involve a HUGE defiance of the Laws of Physics and thus did not involve the entire Physics Profession and Structural Engineers and Fire Protection Engineers and Chemists. And it was not a GLOBAL EVENT in the sense that physics works the same way all over the planet. There are 200 building around the world over 800 feet tall.

It is curious that I can't find steel and concrete distributions on any of them. But I do not doubt that I would not have found it before 9/11 either. This brings up the issue of people pretending that their area of expertise is difficult to understand and simple but important information is disappeared. Obviously when you stack material the lower material must be strong enough to support what is above or there is some kind of collapse. That aspect of skyscrapers is not that complicated.


At Illinois Institute of Technology we said architects studied funny physics and funny math.

psik

PS - And I am sick of hearing people bring up JFK because that brings in the conspiracy psychology crap. Just address the physics and some progress might be made.
edit on 29-12-2011 by psikeyhackr because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by psikeyhackr
 



Well if it is so simple and obvious then why can't you or anyone else duplicate the phenomenon of the collapse in a physical model? I mean, it has Only been TEN YEARS.

What kind of reply is that?
Do you expect anyone to build another WTC just to satisfy those few who believe everything is a conspiracy?


So you don't know what a model is? If engineering schools do tests like this:



then they can build models bigger than mine to see if they can collapse. But after TEN YEARS they will look pretty stupid if they try and fail.

psik



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by lampsalot
 


On Christmas Eve in 1741, David Nitschmann and Count Nicolaus von Zinzendorf, leading a small group of Moravians, founded the mission community of Bethlehem along the banks of the Monocacy Creek by the Lehigh River in the colony of Pennsylvania. They named the settlement after the town of Bethlehem in Judea, the birthplace of Jesus. Originally it was a typical Moravian Settlement Congregation, where the Church owned all the property. Until the 1850s, only members of the Moravian Church were permitted to lease land plots in Bethlehem. The historic Brethren's House, Sisters' House, Widows' House and Gemeinhaus (Congregation House) with the Old Chapel are remnants of this period of communal living.

en.wikipedia.org...#

Eugene Grace, President of Bethlehem Steel Corporation.

The city is the location of Pennsylvania's largest casino, the Sands Casino Resort Bethlehem, located on the former Bethlehem Steel property.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 06:09 PM
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reply to post by psikeyhackr
 





It is curious that I can't find steel and concrete distributions on any of them.

Are you thinking that all of them have pre-packed with explosives?
Or could it be that all the plans are not in the public domain? Possibly for security reasons.



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