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Any other pacifists here?

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posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 10:02 PM
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Originally posted by lampsalot
I think I would probably just rush up to them and beat the crap out of them. I can't shoot a gun anyways. Plus, I wouldn't be sure they had a gun ... me using a gun could potentially escalate their violence, if they had one but only were willing to use it to counter another gun.

I think relatively speaking, just beating them up would be nonviolence in such an extreme case.
edit on 28-12-2011 by lampsalot because: (no reason given)

Well, in my scenario, the brutal violence has already begun and it all happens in moments. 1 or 2 at most. In my scenario, your choice to try something other than immediate and decisive lethal force would almost certainly have us all killed in a large number of the home invasions happening all over the nation today.

Prior to my time living around Occupy, I would have really been harsh about the whole thing...but I see it differently now. You have a right to what you believe and I suppose it's no more wrong than what I have trained to do in response to the same scenario. It's important to know in advance, in fact...because not knowing that about someone around me and assuming I could rely on them would get me killed.

That was something I'd never REALLY considered in a tangible way before Occupy...but I almost got on the wrong physical side of a number of people at once because a safety guy wouldn't back me up. Better to know than not.




posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 12:11 AM
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I am a pacifist and let me tell you - when I joined the Police and had to learn how to handle, clean and fire a gun - it was quite a journey. I was not alone there were others and we would encourage each other to get through the training. Even the multiple choice exams were hard going - where's the other option...I struggled with the questions - not because I did not understand or apply myself to study - I have a mechanism in me that does not embrace violence.

Needless to say I passed and wore a gun on my hip every shift for several years. Only had it at the ready once. I really like the option of capsicum spray because I knew when used correctly I could not kill anyone.

As a Teacher students always ask about the gun when I was a Police officer and I always regale them with my story of being a pacifist. What upsets me most - and I never show it to the Students - every class has asked me what the word pacifist means. I start by writing the word Peace on the board and open discussion to see how we get to pacify and pacifist and the meanings and applications.

Sad isn't it - Children don't know the word pacifist and that it comes from the word peace - have we overloaded them with violence in a war filled world? I do my best to be a good role model.

To the posters who have had to step up in a difficult situation - I understand - and I know that even a pacifist will prevent harm to a Child - an elderly person - an animal or anyone in a shall we say extreme situation - including self. Policing taught me that I have backbone I did not know I had - I burn incense - pat my cats and am still a pacifist. When my passion is stirred I am a formidable opponent but my choice of weapon has always been - words.

Much Peace...I really mean it!



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 01:58 AM
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A conscientious objector am I.

Just imagine if the world's resources that have been dedicated to the military were instead spent on peaceful pursuits?

Most females like me don't have the same feelings towards a violent solution. In most cases it's not an option.

I would defend myself and my loved ones only as a very last resort.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 03:53 AM
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Originally posted by lampsalot
I would never kill a person no matter what. The worst I would do is injure someone, to defend a loved one, but I would never try to kill them. That is why I will never carry a gun.

I also oppose all war including the Allied involvement in WW2. I think there's always a non-violent solution.
edit on 28-12-2011 by lampsalot because: (no reason given)


I think that a pacifist is someone who will try every other avenue before resorting to violence, and it does not mean someone incapable of defense.

I used to think that I would never kill.

The idea of killing is still abhorrent to me, but I am also aware that for some, the best solution mandates capital punishment.

I just don't want to be the one who "casts the first stone". I thank God that I have been spared from having to take such an action.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 07:50 AM
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reply to post by lampsalot
 


When the nazi's in ww2 Germany came to take your family away what would you have done? Try to reason with them?!?!?



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 08:52 AM
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reply to post by lampsalot
 


I would pray that this would never happen to you but it has happened before.
Your daughter is being raped and murdered but you would not kill to save her life. Your wife is being raped and set on fire till she burns to death but you will not kill to save her. I would have to ask what is wrong with you? How can you not love your family enough to kill those that would kill your family? If your 3 year old was taken from your home in the middle of the night, her head bashed in with a brick and her little body torn limb from limb, you still wouldnt kill. You honestly believe that that person needs help? I WILL NOT THINK TWICE. Screw the courts. I will save other families the pain that you would choose to perpetuate. Now an accident is different, but premeditated murder? Dont let me catch you because I WILL torture you to death.
I feel sorry for your wife and children.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 08:55 AM
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reply to post by chr0naut
 


I will gladly cast ALL the stones. I will gladly travel state to state and take care of the business that none of you seem to have the stomach for. HOWEVER, only in cases of premeditated murder. NEVER accidental.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 09:06 AM
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reply to post by candcantiques
 


I am not a person that wishes to kill ANYONE. However for people to sit here and say that they will only defend their family as a last resort tells me something is wrong with you. There are some really crazy people out there and appeasement only make the agressor more agressive. To look at my wife or to look at my daughter and tell them to their face that " I will only defend you as a last resort"? Is that some kind of a idiotic joke? I would never be able to say that to my wifes face and if I did I would pray she would leave me! My daughter gets married and winds up in the hospital after her husband beat her with a bat but while in the hospital I look her in her eyes and tell her " I will only defend you as a last resort". OMG someone please kill me before I get there! What is wrong with you people????



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 10:16 AM
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until everyone thinks like you, death is a necessity. i would kill any man who would try and harm my family and friends without thinking twice. if i saw a women getting raped on the street, that rapist is getting a knife in the spine. nobody is created equal, and pure evil thoughts and actions exist. you might as well put a gun to your own head and pull the trigger metaphorically.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by lampsalot
 


I found out, when growing up, that just because you claim pacifist (which i tried) doesn't mean you will not be victimized. There is a point when any person will change their tune when faced with the decision of fight or die at the hands of an assailant. Sometimes you have to fight; whether it is a guy at the zoo with a jar of peanut butter looking for "meaningful relationships" or a guy trying to harm you or your family. Some cases just require a physical action to stop a physical threat.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by lampsalot
 

I work in a secure mental health unit and we are taught C&R to help us defend ourselves, (It is none harmful to our patients and its no hitting etc only defense and restraining, not restraining by using pain btw) and I was put into a bad situation and a guy much bigger than me and very very ill smashed a glass and ran at me, I pulled my alarm but the alarm did not go off so I knocked the glass out of his hand but he bit my arm until it bleed and we both fell to the ground, he kept on biting me so I did what I had to do I hit him until he let go.
I broke his jaw and I had to goto Hospital for 4 days because of the bite wound.
I thought to myself Iam in trouble here but after a interview (with police) they said I did the right thing because he could of killed me.
I sued the company I worked for and won (due to the fact that the personal alarm coverage was not all over the building).
I have had to do something like that again to stop a workmate getting raped, and let me tell you when you see that red mist falls and all the training just went out of the window, they had to pull me off but I saved a girl from getting raped.
I got a award for that...never wanted it because I was ashamed that I had lost it so much.


You are using present tense and past tense in your statement about the job. I'm confused, do you still work there? It sounds dangerous.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 11:19 AM
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I would say I am an Idealist Pacifist.

It is a goal to achieve - but requires the cooperation of all.

As a species we just aren't there yet.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by Communicationwillfreeus
 

Same place, different ward, different company.
The original company sold it to the new one and I stayed on.
Yeah it can be dangerous but very rewarding but like we do joke around at work that we are ninjas
and it helps being in such a good team.
edit on 29-12-2011 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by clintdelicious
reply to post by lampsalot
 


When the nazi's in ww2 Germany came to take your family away what would you have done? Try to reason with them?!?!?


I would have found a good place to hide. Trying to kill them would just make it worse - if I was found, someone else would have taken them away. And they would probably be harsher on my family than they would have been otherwise.
edit on 29-12-2011 by lampsalot because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by Communicationwillfreeus
reply to post by lampsalot
 


I found out, when growing up, that just because you claim pacifist (which i tried) doesn't mean you will not be victimized. There is a point when any person will change their tune when faced with the decision of fight or die at the hands of an assailant. Sometimes you have to fight; whether it is a guy at the zoo with a jar of peanut butter looking for "meaningful relationships" or a guy trying to harm you or your family. Some cases just require a physical action to stop a physical threat.



Well like I said, i would fight - I just wouldn't kill.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by candcantiques
reply to post by lampsalot
 


I would pray that this would never happen to you but it has happened before.
Your daughter is being raped and murdered but you would not kill to save her life. Your wife is being raped and set on fire till she burns to death but you will not kill to save her. I would have to ask what is wrong with you? How can you not love your family enough to kill those that would kill your family? If your 3 year old was taken from your home in the middle of the night, her head bashed in with a brick and her little body torn limb from limb, you still wouldnt kill. You honestly believe that that person needs help? I WILL NOT THINK TWICE. Screw the courts. I will save other families the pain that you would choose to perpetuate. Now an accident is different, but premeditated murder? Dont let me catch you because I WILL torture you to death.
I feel sorry for your wife and children.


Well, I'm not married, nor do I have kids. But I don't think my conviction will change when I do. If someone was trying to kill them, I would restrain them, fight them, but I would not try to kill them. I just don't think it's necessary, 99.9% of the time.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by lampsalot
I think I would probably just rush up to them and beat the crap out of them. I can't shoot a gun anyways. Plus, I wouldn't be sure they had a gun ... me using a gun could potentially escalate their violence, if they had one but only were willing to use it to counter another gun.

I think relatively speaking, just beating them up would be nonviolence in such an extreme case.
edit on 28-12-2011 by lampsalot because: (no reason given)

Well, in my scenario, the brutal violence has already begun and it all happens in moments. 1 or 2 at most. In my scenario, your choice to try something other than immediate and decisive lethal force would almost certainly have us all killed in a large number of the home invasions happening all over the nation today.

Prior to my time living around Occupy, I would have really been harsh about the whole thing...but I see it differently now. You have a right to what you believe and I suppose it's no more wrong than what I have trained to do in response to the same scenario. It's important to know in advance, in fact...because not knowing that about someone around me and assuming I could rely on them would get me killed.

That was something I'd never REALLY considered in a tangible way before Occupy...but I almost got on the wrong physical side of a number of people at once because a safety guy wouldn't back me up. Better to know than not.


Okay, you know what I would have done? I would have begged you to just let them take the stuff, and then I would have re-imbursed your losses and helped you bring them to justice. I mean, people invade houses because they want something material usually, unless they're a serial killer.

I'm of the belief that material things are not worth dying or killing over.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 12:28 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 12:30 PM
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reply to post by lampsalot
 


Dont ever think you are anonymous. All you did is make yourself a target by saying you would never kill. Grow up.



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by candcantiques
reply to post by lampsalot
 

post removed by staff


My name isn't Jay, and I don't live in Canada.
edit on Thu Dec 29 2011 by DontTreadOnMe because: (no reason given)





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