After reading through the replies, I don't believe "Are you a pacifist?" is the correct question.
I would never inflict hurt, pain, or death upon another living creature, but I would kill to protect myself or another being.
The real question here is "How strong is your will to live?"
Any other pacifists here?, page 2
reply posted on 28-12-2011 @ 09:03 PM by Tea4One
reply to post by curious7
This animal instinct you speak of, it doesn't effect all men. We are not entirely violent, if we were, there would be a revolution tomorrow and a riot right now.
All wars in the past 100 years have all been based on imperialistic natures of the participating countries. Maybe not all wars, but the ones you mentioned were. They've all been fought because of the greed of the bourgeoisie.
You don't have to see the human race as family to believe in pacifism.
This animal instinct you speak of, it doesn't effect all men. We are not entirely violent, if we were, there would be a revolution tomorrow and a riot right now.
Every war or skirmish in the last 100 years has been either preventative measure against an evil leaderor
retaliatory against an invasion or a murder
All wars in the past 100 years have all been based on imperialistic natures of the participating countries. Maybe not all wars, but the ones you mentioned were. They've all been fought because of the greed of the bourgeoisie.
You don't have to see the human race as family to believe in pacifism.
reply posted on 28-12-2011 @ 09:04 PM by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by lampsalot
If you actually feel as deeply as you say, I respect your conviction. I will say that. I met several pacifists while living in Occupy and I'd never spent time actually learning or seeing anything about that mindset before. It's amazing to realize some people really do carry this to the logical extension and mean it to their core. I have a question..and I think it's a fair one, given current events and the times we live in.
Let's say you were at my home and it was the target of a home invasion. By whatever means it may have happened, you are aware that a gun is on your side of the room when people rush through the front door. Lets say these are particularly nasty people and come in using brutal violence right from the start against me or my family while your on the far side of the same room and within reach of that weapon.
Would you allow the violence or even murders to happen in front of you when killing bad guys in a frenzy of their own is the only option?
Home invasions are happening just often enough around me to be really scary..so the question isn't entirely pie in the sky hypothetical. I wish it were....
If you actually feel as deeply as you say, I respect your conviction. I will say that. I met several pacifists while living in Occupy and I'd never spent time actually learning or seeing anything about that mindset before. It's amazing to realize some people really do carry this to the logical extension and mean it to their core. I have a question..and I think it's a fair one, given current events and the times we live in.
Let's say you were at my home and it was the target of a home invasion. By whatever means it may have happened, you are aware that a gun is on your side of the room when people rush through the front door. Lets say these are particularly nasty people and come in using brutal violence right from the start against me or my family while your on the far side of the same room and within reach of that weapon.
Would you allow the violence or even murders to happen in front of you when killing bad guys in a frenzy of their own is the only option?
Home invasions are happening just often enough around me to be really scary..so the question isn't entirely pie in the sky hypothetical. I wish it were....
reply posted on 28-12-2011 @ 09:06 PM by lampsalot
Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by lampsalot
I work in a secure mental health unit and we are taught C&R to help us defend ourselves, (It is none harmful to our patients and its no hitting etc only defense and restraining, not restraining by using pain btw) and I was put into a bad situation and a guy much bigger than me and very very ill smashed a glass and ran at me, I pulled my alarm but the alarm did not go off so I knocked the glass out of his hand but he bit my arm until it bleed and we both fell to the ground, he kept on biting me so I did what I had to do I hit him until he let go.
I broke his jaw and I had to goto Hospital for 4 days because of the bite wound.
I thought to myself Iam in trouble here but after a interview (with police) they said I did the right thing because he could of killed me.
I sued the company I worked for and won (due to the fact that the personal alarm coverage was not all over the building).
I have had to do something like that again to stop a workmate getting raped, and let me tell you when you see that red mist falls and all the training just went out of the window, they had to pull me off but I saved a girl from getting raped.
I got a award for that...never wanted it because I was ashamed that I had lost it so much.
I guess I'm not completely a pacifist. I mean, I think you were right to break his jaw. But I think if you shot him, that would have been wrong. Though I wouldn't judge you because when life is in danger, people do things in the heat of the moment. I wouldn't have convinced you if you killed him and I was on your jury.
I would hurt, but I wouldn't kill. I'm a pacifist in the sense I think killing is always wrong. But I suppose I don't always think non-lethal violence is wrong if it's the only means of restraint.
edit on 28-12-2011 by lampsalot because: (no reason given)
edit on 28-12-2011 by
lampsalot because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 28-12-2011 @ 09:11 PM by lampsalot
Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by lampsalot
If you actually feel as deeply as you say, I respect your conviction. I will say that. I met several pacifists while living in Occupy and I'd never spent time actually learning or seeing anything about that mindset before. It's amazing to realize some people really do carry this to the logical extension and mean it to their core. I have a question..and I think it's a fair one, given current events and the times we live in.
Let's say you were at my home and it was the target of a home invasion. By whatever means it may have happened, you are aware that a gun is on your side of the room when people rush through the front door. Lets say these are particularly nasty people and come in using brutal violence right from the start against me or my family while your on the far side of the same room and within reach of that weapon.
Would you allow the violence or even murders to happen in front of you when killing bad guys in a frenzy of their own is the only option?
Home invasions are happening just often enough around me to be really scary..so the question isn't entirely pie in the sky hypothetical. I wish it were....
I think I would probably just rush up to them and beat the crap out of them. I can't shoot a gun anyways. Plus, I wouldn't be sure they had a gun ... me using a gun could potentially escalate their violence, if they had one but only were willing to use it to counter another gun.
I think relatively speaking, just beating them up would be nonviolence in such an extreme case.
edit on 28-12-2011 by lampsalot because: (no
reason given)
reply posted on 28-12-2011 @ 09:12 PM by curious7
Originally posted by Tea4One
reply to post by curious7
This animal instinct you speak of, it doesn't effect all men. We are not entirely violent, if we were, there would be a revolution tomorrow and a riot right now.
Actually, yes it affects all men and women, upbringing and nurturing certain habits sway it to either being hidden away to fit into society or embraced and encouraged.
Just because cats are more docile don't roam around feeding off buffalo like their more primitive relations, doesn't mean they can't be vicious when instinct kicks in.
I'm sure you've seen and read the stories of people killing intruders or rapists or attackers as a natural instinct to kill or be killed.
As someone who suffers clinical depression, I was taught by various different therapists to try to be more assertive and part of that was explaining the "fight or flight" instinct. Not everyone has to be assertive but those willing to fight for what they believe in have more confidence and more of the "fight" mechanism than those who run away or avoid situations which is where we get pacifists and their opposite number (technical term for which I've somehow forgotten at the moment)
I deleted the rest of the quote because while you may be right in some ways, it's more an opinion based thing and I'd rather not argue our opinions on something of that nature because that's not the topic at hand mainly.
reply posted on 28-12-2011 @ 09:18 PM by Tea4One
reply to post by curious7
It's more so encouraged in society I feel. Nurture is most of it.
We're not the same as cats. Our minds work in different ways mostly.
It does happen rarely yes, hence why I said "it doesn't effect all men."
I guess we're going this is also a debate on nurture vs nature. Which is going away from the original question, just not as much
No problem. It isn't relevant to the thread completely so makes sense. Anywho, agree to disagree? Im sleepy.
It's more so encouraged in society I feel. Nurture is most of it.
We're not the same as cats. Our minds work in different ways mostly.
It does happen rarely yes, hence why I said "it doesn't effect all men."
I guess we're going this is also a debate on nurture vs nature. Which is going away from the original question, just not as much
No problem. It isn't relevant to the thread completely so makes sense. Anywho, agree to disagree? Im sleepy.
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