Any other pacifists here?

After reading through the replies, I don't believe "Are you a pacifist?" is the correct question.

I would never inflict hurt, pain, or death upon another living creature, but I would kill to protect myself or another being.

The real question here is "How strong is your will to live?"

Funny...I was thinking of this very thing the past few days...

Peace is the only way...period...Take all things to their logical conclusion...

When it comes to use of force, the person can either state, "I am for the use of force," or the person can state, "I am not using force."

It is pretty clear...humans have always followed those who use force to get their way...even though we teach children not to fight, or we try to tell them some crapola reasons as to when it is acceptable to fight...all a bunch of crapola...you know what we are fighting for in the Middle East? Dirt and oil...oh yeah....gotta have that crap...

Fighters quote - "I am a peaceful guy by nature, so either be peaceful or I will kill you."

Originally posted by curious7

Originally posted by lampsalot
Maybe the fact that I wasn't born with a really strong self-protection instinct is the reason I'm a pacifist. Even though I adore my family, I don't really feel vengefully protective of them like most people do. Like if someone said something bad about my mom, I'd be upset and defend her, but I wouldn't feel like bashing the person's face in like most people would. I'm not quick to defend myself either.

I'm slow to anger ...

edit on 28-12-2011 by lampsalot because: (no reason given)

In a way I'm the same, I wouldn't feel like I would get revenge for an attack of some kind on my family (I attended the funeral of a great grandfather last year, he was buried with full military honours due to his time serving in WW2 as one of those who stormed Normandy yet he refused to speak about what he saw and experienced) but then and with other deaths in the family, I just can't find myself getting upset for some reason.

I cry when I'm at my lowest ebb and I cried once during a video tribute package to a pro wrestler in 2005 when they played the Johnny Cash cover of "Hurt" during it but otherwise, I don't cry.

It's also strange that I'm very quick to anger and retaliate with sarcasm but it takes a lot to get me violent and when I am, I can be downright dangerous. A college friend punched me repeatedly in the kidney once during a festival as we sat in our tent and I let it slide for a few minutes until I couldn't take it, dragged his much taller and heavier self out of the tent and almost ended him right there with a rear naked choke. I literally squeezed the air out of his throat and ribs with my arm and legs but I haven't been that angered ever since.

I'm capable of it but like I said, it'd take a hell of a lot.

Actually as a kid I was quite violent and prone to anger, I even stabbed a kid with a pencil once for no reason, but I regret it and feel sorry for it.

The times I do get angry (rarely), I do get really mad. But these days, I usually keep it to myself.

Originally posted by lampsalot

Originally posted by curious7

I don't see the human race as family though because if I'm absolutely honest, I despise the rest of this species for a variety of reasons.

Maybe that's the problem. People don't love members of their fellow species. Most people are simply happy with loving their family and being apathetic to anyone more distant than a first cousin.

Trust me, I don't even have that love for my closest relatives.

There's a variety of reasons for my mistrust and hatred of the human race, all of which I'm not comfortable going into.

Originally posted by curious7


Trust me, I don't even have that love for my closest relatives.

There's a variety of reasons for my mistrust and hatred of the human race, all of which I'm not comfortable going into.

That's fair. I haven't been that mistreated by other people in my life, so maybe that's why I'm starry-eyed. I haven't had it easy though, because I have suffered bouts of mental illness, mostly OCD related.

reply to post by curious7


This animal instinct you speak of, it doesn't effect all men. We are not entirely violent, if we were, there would be a revolution tomorrow and a riot right now.

Every war or skirmish in the last 100 years has been either preventative measure against an evil leader

or

retaliatory against an invasion or a murder

All wars in the past 100 years have all been based on imperialistic natures of the participating countries. Maybe not all wars, but the ones you mentioned were. They've all been fought because of the greed of the bourgeoisie.

You don't have to see the human race as family to believe in pacifism.

Originally posted by Afterthought
After reading through the replies, I don't believe "Are you a pacifist?" is the correct question.

I would never inflict hurt, pain, or death upon another living creature, but I would kill to protect myself or another being.

The real question here is "How strong is your will to live?"

Can't simply hurting do what killing can 99% of the time?

reply to post by lampsalot

If you actually feel as deeply as you say, I respect your conviction. I will say that. I met several pacifists while living in Occupy and I'd never spent time actually learning or seeing anything about that mindset before. It's amazing to realize some people really do carry this to the logical extension and mean it to their core. I have a question..and I think it's a fair one, given current events and the times we live in.

Let's say you were at my home and it was the target of a home invasion. By whatever means it may have happened, you are aware that a gun is on your side of the room when people rush through the front door. Lets say these are particularly nasty people and come in using brutal violence right from the start against me or my family while your on the far side of the same room and within reach of that weapon.

Would you allow the violence or even murders to happen in front of you when killing bad guys in a frenzy of their own is the only option?


Home invasions are happening just often enough around me to be really scary..so the question isn't entirely pie in the sky hypothetical. I wish it were....

Originally posted by lampsalot

Originally posted by curious7

Originally posted by lampsalot
Maybe the fact that I wasn't born with a really strong self-protection instinct is the reason I'm a pacifist. Even though I adore my family, I don't really feel vengefully protective of them like most people do. Like if someone said something bad about my mom, I'd be upset and defend her, but I wouldn't feel like bashing the person's face in like most people would. I'm not quick to defend myself either.

I'm slow to anger ...

edit on 28-12-2011 by lampsalot because: (no reason given)

In a way I'm the same, I wouldn't feel like I would get revenge for an attack of some kind on my family (I attended the funeral of a great grandfather last year, he was buried with full military honours due to his time serving in WW2 as one of those who stormed Normandy yet he refused to speak about what he saw and experienced) but then and with other deaths in the family, I just can't find myself getting upset for some reason.

I cry when I'm at my lowest ebb and I cried once during a video tribute package to a pro wrestler in 2005 when they played the Johnny Cash cover of "Hurt" during it but otherwise, I don't cry.

It's also strange that I'm very quick to anger and retaliate with sarcasm but it takes a lot to get me violent and when I am, I can be downright dangerous. A college friend punched me repeatedly in the kidney once during a festival as we sat in our tent and I let it slide for a few minutes until I couldn't take it, dragged his much taller and heavier self out of the tent and almost ended him right there with a rear naked choke. I literally squeezed the air out of his throat and ribs with my arm and legs but I haven't been that angered ever since.

I'm capable of it but like I said, it'd take a hell of a lot.

Actually as a kid I was quite violent and prone to anger, I even stabbed a kid with a pencil once for no reason, but I regret it and feel sorry for it.

The times I do get angry (rarely), I do get really mad. But these days, I usually keep it to myself.

edit on 28-12-2011 by lampsalot because: (no reason given)

Indeed, I was always fighting until the age of 11 but that's why I'm so sarcastic now because I'd rather insult someone in a jokey manner than punch them. Fighting leads to trouble.

As for the other guy who claimed we're in the Middle East for dirt and oil......yeah, if only I could remember the exact quote I had for people who foolishly believe that.

reply to post by lampsalot


Maybe.
I guess one would find out when it's too late.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by lampsalot

 

I work in a secure mental health unit and we are taught C&R to help us defend ourselves, (It is none harmful to our patients and its no hitting etc only defense and restraining, not restraining by using pain btw) and I was put into a bad situation and a guy much bigger than me and very very ill smashed a glass and ran at me, I pulled my alarm but the alarm did not go off so I knocked the glass out of his hand but he bit my arm until it bleed and we both fell to the ground, he kept on biting me so I did what I had to do I hit him until he let go.
I broke his jaw and I had to goto Hospital for 4 days because of the bite wound.
I thought to myself Iam in trouble here but after a interview (with police) they said I did the right thing because he could of killed me.
I sued the company I worked for and won (due to the fact that the personal alarm coverage was not all over the building).
I have had to do something like that again to stop a workmate getting raped, and let me tell you when you see that red mist falls and all the training just went out of the window, they had to pull me off but I saved a girl from getting raped.
I got a award for that...never wanted it because I was ashamed that I had lost it so much.

I guess I'm not completely a pacifist. I mean, I think you were right to break his jaw. But I think if you shot him, that would have been wrong. Though I wouldn't judge you because when life is in danger, people do things in the heat of the moment. I wouldn't have convinced you if you killed him and I was on your jury.

I would hurt, but I wouldn't kill. I'm a pacifist in the sense I think killing is always wrong. But I suppose I don't always think non-lethal violence is wrong if it's the only means of restraint.

reply to post by lampsalot

Thankfully they don;t let us carry guns on the ward lol

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by lampsalot

 

If you actually feel as deeply as you say, I respect your conviction. I will say that. I met several pacifists while living in Occupy and I'd never spent time actually learning or seeing anything about that mindset before. It's amazing to realize some people really do carry this to the logical extension and mean it to their core. I have a question..and I think it's a fair one, given current events and the times we live in.

Let's say you were at my home and it was the target of a home invasion. By whatever means it may have happened, you are aware that a gun is on your side of the room when people rush through the front door. Lets say these are particularly nasty people and come in using brutal violence right from the start against me or my family while your on the far side of the same room and within reach of that weapon.

Would you allow the violence or even murders to happen in front of you when killing bad guys in a frenzy of their own is the only option?


Home invasions are happening just often enough around me to be really scary..so the question isn't entirely pie in the sky hypothetical. I wish it were....

I think I would probably just rush up to them and beat the crap out of them. I can't shoot a gun anyways. Plus, I wouldn't be sure they had a gun ... me using a gun could potentially escalate their violence, if they had one but only were willing to use it to counter another gun.

I think relatively speaking, just beating them up would be nonviolence in such an extreme case.

Originally posted by Tea4One
reply to post by curious7

 

This animal instinct you speak of, it doesn't effect all men. We are not entirely violent, if we were, there would be a revolution tomorrow and a riot right now.

Actually, yes it affects all men and women, upbringing and nurturing certain habits sway it to either being hidden away to fit into society or embraced and encouraged.

Just because cats are more docile don't roam around feeding off buffalo like their more primitive relations, doesn't mean they can't be vicious when instinct kicks in.

I'm sure you've seen and read the stories of people killing intruders or rapists or attackers as a natural instinct to kill or be killed.

As someone who suffers clinical depression, I was taught by various different therapists to try to be more assertive and part of that was explaining the "fight or flight" instinct. Not everyone has to be assertive but those willing to fight for what they believe in have more confidence and more of the "fight" mechanism than those who run away or avoid situations which is where we get pacifists and their opposite number (technical term for which I've somehow forgotten at the moment)

I deleted the rest of the quote because while you may be right in some ways, it's more an opinion based thing and I'd rather not argue our opinions on something of that nature because that's not the topic at hand mainly.

By the way, I'm not a coward.

Even though I wouldn't kill to save someone (unless it was the ONLY way, and then it would only be by accident incapacitating them), I would risk my life to save someone. I might even give my life to someone in some situation.

Originally posted by curious7


Just because cats are more docile don't roam around feeding off buffalo like their more primitive relations, doesn't mean they can't be vicious when instinct kicks in.

Cats are often vicious.

reply to post by curious7


It's more so encouraged in society I feel. Nurture is most of it.

We're not the same as cats. Our minds work in different ways mostly.

It does happen rarely yes, hence why I said "it doesn't effect all men."

I guess we're going this is also a debate on nurture vs nature. Which is going away from the original question, just not as much

No problem. It isn't relevant to the thread completely so makes sense. Anywho, agree to disagree? Im sleepy.

Originally posted by lampsalot
By the way, I'm not a coward.

Even though I wouldn't kill to save someone (unless it was the ONLY way, and then it would only be by accident incapacitating them), I would risk my life to save someone. I might even give my life to someone in some situation.

Being a pacifist doesn't make you a coward.

I would say it all depends on the scenario. I call myself a pacifist most of the time, but when it comes to close family God could only help the person bothering them. Basically i protect 4 very close people in my life to the point where if there looked at or spoken to wrong then there will be problems. I know the consequences of physically fighting with someone so i leave that as a last resort.