Koch brothers: secretive billionaires to launch vast database with 2012 in mind

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by NoHierarchy

 

Are they doing anything illegal?
Are they doing anything that the progressive movement isn't doing?

It's unity when the left does it, it's "Nightmare On Elm Street" when conservatives do it.

The irony is that the conservatives will probably do it better, cheaper, and with more style.

To anybody who researches these issues, it's far more concerning when people like the Kochs manipulate common workers/voters/citizenry/etc. than when ACTUAL PEOPLES' RIGHTS organizations rally support. Almost everything the Kochs have built and had their hands in is based upon lies, corruption, corporatism, and general ANTI-environment/worker/indigenous/equality/autonomy/poor/sustainability/efficiency/democracy/open-source/localized/etc. policies. The Kochs are scum and their ideology is insane and self-serving. You cannot compare apples to oranges and say the Kochs are just the right-wing version of MoveOn... that's a willfully blinded perversion of what's actually going on.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Reply to Nohierarchy

Your opinion mister and name calling is not going to make you right. I have studied what is going on in the world since the 70's with an inside perspective you are not ready for. You do not understand either the spiritual or the political issues in depth. You need to study up on the Rothschilds, UN Agenda 21 and the depopulation agenda, the history of the communist revolution and the Illuminati, the backing of the Bolsheviks and Hitler by monied interests of the West and I recommend all of Antony Sutton's books. I'd start with "America's Secret Establishment" and work up to "Tri-;laterals Over Washington", "Wall Street and FDR", and "Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler"
Just so you know, OWS is only partially right. They got the influence of Wall Street right but they have the solutions all wrong plus the backing of Obama and the whole Intl Socialist cabal behind him. How fast would you like your poison?

Here's a start for ya buddy, and let me know when you catch up to this. After that you can go back to the Alex Jones Prison Planet with a fresh perspective.
www.reformed-theology.org...

edit on 30-12-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-12-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-12-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

I have studied these things already... and while they have elements of truth to them, that's all. They are conspiracy theories, and it's just an observable fact that most conspiracy theories are mostly wrong, some are partially right, and very very few are almost completely correct. I'm no fan of the Rothschilds, nor of Hitler, nor of the Bolsheviks (see the October Revolution in Russia where the Bolsheviks completely backstabbed the Anarchists involved in the revolution). You are reading these situations wrong... the problem is not one or two shadowy groups who, if we just eliminated them, would solve all our problems. The problem lies in the very ROOTS of our civilization... if it wasn't one group (far-right fascists/corporatists) it'd be another (totalitarian Communists) or any combination of them (monarchies, dictatorships, drug cartels/mobs, mercenary armies, secret societies, multinational banks/corporations/umbrella groups, etc. etc.). THE VERY NATURE OF OUR CIVILIZATION IS TO ENCOURAGE THE ACCUMULATION/PERPETUATION OF WEALTH AND POWER INTO THE HANDS OF THE FEW AND OVER THE REST OF US. The specific groups matter not as much as the system itself, which breeds our problems.

Socialism (no, NOT state-communism) has some very common-sense/advanced/intelligent solutions for us, as does Libertarian ideology (on the left and right wings). The freest, most prosperous, healthiest, happiest, smartest, most engaged, most environmentally friendly, etc. etc. nations on the planet embrace a form of Socialism called Social Democracy... how can that be part of some evil Commie plot when it COMBINES varying forms of economically stimulating Capitalism with pro-worker/human/ecology Socialism?? Research Social Democracy, you cannot pretend it is not more advanced than corporatist and/or de-regulated Capitalist societies, not to mention despotic state-Communist societies and so on. Personally I'm a Libertarian Socialist, similar to Noam Chomsky, or other Anarchists... I question the system far more in depth than you do, which is why I wonder, every time you post, why you champion Capitalism and obscure/distracting conspiracy theories above the simple/ultimate/fundamental problems of our society/culture.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by Algernonsmouse

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by NoHierarchy

 

Too much of a threat to the equally if not more powerful tool of the Rotchschilds, Mr Soros, the billionaire financier who owns the Democrat Party these days and pumps money into Media Matters and MoveOn Center for American Progress and others.
Funny, I never hear you complaining about Soros' ability to throw elections.

Really? Equal?
I would love to learn more about this. Do you have any sources you could suggest?

Sorry I needed to get back to this point for you. A quick google finds all sorts of stuff on Soros

beltwaywatchdogs.com...
urbangrounds.com...


Here's a piece from 04
www.aim.org...

awakentheelephants.com...

iusbvision.wordpress.com...

When liberal investor George Soros gave $1.8 million to National Public Radio , it became part of the firestorm of controversy that jeopardized NPR’s federal funding. But that gift only hints at the widespread influence the controversial billionaire has on the mainstream media. Soros, who spent $27 million trying to defeat President Bush in 2004, has ties to more than 30 mainstream news outlets – including The New York Times, Washington Post, the Associated Press, NBC and ABC.

www.americanthinker.com...

Perhaps, he just wants to pay back George Soros, who was so instrumental in helping his election and the election of fellow Democrats across America. George Soros is the Patron Saint of the Democratic Party and was a very early and generous supporter of Barack Obama's. Soros even used a loophole in Federal campaign laws that allowed him and his family to give outsized donations to Barack Obama; he also fielded his army of so-called 527 groups (such as MoveOn.Org) to help Obama win the Oval Office.

www.americanthinker.com...

www.discoverthenetworks.org...

Here's an article comparing Koch and Soros
www.opensecrets.org...

blog
www.sodahead.com...

How about abc news?
abcnews.go.com...

George Soros is known as "the Man Who Broke the Bank of England." On September 16, 1992 Soros delivered an important message to the world. He proved the U.K.'s reluctance to raise its interest rates or to adopt a floating currency was a costly blunder. To reveal that institutional investors had become more powerful than big government, he short sold more than $10 billion in pounds, earning him an estimated $1.1 billion.

Soros has also had a foray into American politics. In a 2003 Washington Post interview, Soros said removing President Bush from office "is the central focus of [his] life." He furthered, "[it is] a matter of life and death." Soros later added that if necessary, he would sacrifice his entire fortune to defeat President Bush. Soros threw his considerable financial support behind Obama during the 2008 presidential election.

and oh in case you thought he isn't involved with the Obama administration policy

Although Soros continues to support the current administration, he is upset at Obama's advisors because he proposed bank reforms modeled on the "Danish System" but, "they went their way."

So, I think this is sufficient for a start and I will find some more later.

Upon actually reading through those links, it appears to me that Soros doesn't sound as bad as you make him out to be. And in that awesome comparison of the Kochs versus Soros by OpenSecrets... it seems they offset each other more or less in spending/lobbying/front-groups/donations. It seems the Kochs were a little bit more dominant in spending though.

Once again I must reiterate... we MUST look at exactly WHAT they are both donating to and what those organizations are actually advocating and THEN what the results are. From everything I've seen, the Kochs have supported some of the worst outcomes/ideas and Soros has supported far better outcomes/ideas overall.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by NoHierarchy

 

You know, you being the collectivst type that your posting has shown, I am glad to know my posts cause you to face palm because it shows I am stirring up the hornets nest of collectivism residing in you.
Have a nice day.

edit on 30-12-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

Seriously? Seriously?? We're gonna do the whole false "individualism versus collectivism" battle??

How many times must I state this:

INDIVIDUALISM AND COLLECTIVISM ARE NOT NECESSARILY MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE NOR DO THEY NECESSARILY CONFLICT. COLLECTIVISM IS THE SUPPORT OF HUMANS BEHAVING AS A GROUP, WE HAVE DONE THIS FOR OUR ENTIRE EXISTENCE AS A SPECIES ON THIS PLANET, WITHOUT COLLECTIVISM, WE WOULD NOT HAVE SURVIVED.

en.wikipedia.org...

AS FOR INDIVIDUALISM, IT IS VERY NOBLE AND HAS MANY VALID TENETS. ANARCHISM (which I largely subscribe to) IS BASED PARTIALLY OFF OF INDIVIDUALISM AND QUESTIONING OF SOCIETY'S CONFORMITY. HOWEVER, ANARCHISM ALSO LARGELY ADVOCATES HUMANS EMBRACING INDIVIDUALISM BUT ALSO WORKING WITHIN SUPPORTIVE GROUPS/COMMUNITIES TO GET THINGS DONE THAT THEY CAN'T DO ALONE. GROUPS ALSO PROVIDE THE KIND OF SOCIAL/EMOTIONAL SUPPORT AND BONDING THAT YOU COULD NOT GET BEING AN ISOLATED HERMIT.

THE BEST COLLECTIVE IS THE ONE WHICH EMBRACES ITS INDIVIDUALS AND ALLOWS INDIVIDUALITY WHILE CREATING AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE INDIVIDUALS TO BECOME BETTER AND DO BIGGER THINGS TOGETHER RATHER THAN ALONE.

Like it or not, we thrive off of collectives... and no, not tyrannical/oppressive ones, but more tight-knit/local/supportive ones, we are also individuals and every sane group of people totally acknowledges and respects that.

Originally posted by prevenge

Originally posted by NoHierarchyThe kochs present a terrible alternative to state-society, they are a bastardization of anti-government ideology, the kind that true activists/freedom fighters/dissidents/anarchists despise and fight against. Whether you are right or left-wing, keep two keen eyes on the kochs' co-opting of our politics and resist them, they are snakes and will use your beliefs to convince you to work naively against your own best interests. They want us divided against each other while they watch from afar, sipping champagne and using their billions to toy with our world.

. i'm going to tell you this once but you're not going to believe it.
you're under control because you need money to supply yourself with resources that your human body needs to survive.

transform your body into something more than human.

then you will no longer need money because the resources you'd previously need will be obsolete in the maintenance of your new body.

thus.. you are no longer under control .. and... this all will be a drastically MOOT point.. unless you want to help others.

practice white tantra and activate your kundalini FOR REAL.. it will supply you with amrita and rejuvenate your body into an immortal state.

....i told you you would not believe me. by not doing so you will administer the most epic face palm to yourself when you realize.. only too late how correct I am in telling you this.

edit on 12/30/2011 by prevenge because: (no reason given)

Are you speaking of transhumanism? If so... that's currently not technologically possible.

As for spirituality/meditation allowing for immortality or some kind of magical secession from our civilization's power structures, as well as the need for sustenance... well, that's just unrealistic at best, false/immobilizing at worst. We cannot simply pretend our messy world does not exist, we are products of it and we are also responsible for it in our various small ways, it's not a pretty system, nor will solving its problems (or eliminating it entirely) be pure/clean... we must embrace this simple reality. However, I do not reject your spirituality, nor do I reject intensive meditation, I think it has incredible benefits that people should delve into. However, becoming walking Buddhas will not solve our problems... or rather, it is a nice idea but virtually impossible to convert the entire planet to walking Buddhas in order to solve our problems, so we must try different/varied approaches. There are many solutions and many ways of living.

reply to post by prevenge


Ah Prevenge that is one of the coolest posts I've read here yet!!!!!

reply to post by NoHierarchy


Oh please don't bother trying to convince me that collectivism is really individualism. Lol and did I say lol. oh and did I say lol!

Look I understand that there has to be a balance between the individual and the community, but that is not an excuse for stealing private property and redistributing it. You will never convince me in a million years that Socialism/Communism/Collectivism cares about the individual worker bee and that it is anything but a cancer on the soul and spirit of our world, but you can facepalm as much as you want. It's your face.

reply to post by NoHierarchy


I don't believe you have read any thing Antony Sutton wrote. If you have then please cite something of his you read whether a book or an article online or something. Otherwise I'm not impressed. Clearly you are going to believe what you believe no matter what's out there. That's your mindset and I won't try to change your mind. It would be fruitless effort.

I will wish you a Happy New Year though for posterity.

reply to post by NoHierarchy


The problem I have with your theory of collectivism is that it doesn't stop with just a little bit of welfare and a little bit of this or that "community" program.
Marx, Lenin, the CPUSA all say that socialism is just the bridge to all out communism. I know you don't believe me. Either that or you are really a communist.
Communism destroys the individual by making the collective all important. We lose valuable freedoms, and I don't mean the freedom to do evil things. Look at the horrible things done in the name of communism. Look at the gulags and the forced labor camps, the deliberate abuse of those people, sending people off in cattle cars against their will for nothing but an insane ideology. I read a true novel about it when I was 11 and it made a huge impact on me shaping my thought for life.
In fact, I went to a holocaust museum in St. Petersberg with my sisters and we found the patch representing the 82nd Airborne that my Dad had when he was a paratrooper. You see, this is important to me because 82nd airborne is honored at that museum for rescuing the prisoners in the camps. At that museum they have an actual cattle car that transported prisoners. It's very creepy. You should see it. It has one little metal vent for air. Of course that was Hitler's, but the Russians had their own cattle cars. It was all pretty much the same.
And you think that socialism and collectivism will save all the nations and everything will be a wonderful Utopia but the end is those cattle cars.
Please learn real history instead of listening to a bunch of intellectual armchair professors pushing Marxism.

reply to post by NoHierarchy


Truth from Jonah Goldberg

Having recently published a book on fascism, I think I understand why so many people refused to see the evil in communism. It was well-intentioned. The Soviets were our allies in World War II. Communists spoke of socialism and liberation, and their agents, friends, and apologists in the U.S. were comrades in arms with Americans battling racism. But it’s worth remembering how evil Communist governments really were. Stalin murdered more people than Hitler. The hammer-and-sickle’s stack of bones towers high above the swastika’s. “The Black Book of Communism,” a scholarly accounting of communism’s crimes, counts about 94 million murdered by the supposed champions of the common man (20 million for the Soviets alone), and some say that number is too low.

www.nationalreview.com...

Originally posted by NoHierarchy

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by NoHierarchy

 

Are they doing anything illegal?
Are they doing anything that the progressive movement isn't doing?

It's unity when the left does it, it's "Nightmare On Elm Street" when conservatives do it.

The irony is that the conservatives will probably do it better, cheaper, and with more style.

To anybody who researches these issues, it's far more concerning when people like the Kochs manipulate common workers/voters/citizenry/etc. than when ACTUAL PEOPLES' RIGHTS organizations rally support. Almost everything the Kochs have built and had their hands in is based upon lies, corruption, corporatism, and general ANTI-environment/worker/indigenous/equality/autonomy/poor/sustainability/efficiency/democracy/open-source/localized/etc. policies. The Kochs are scum and their ideology is insane and self-serving. You cannot compare apples to oranges and say the Kochs are just the right-wing version of MoveOn... that's a willfully blinded perversion of what's actually going on.

edit on 30-12-2011 by NoHierarchy because: (no reason given)

I'm trying to shift through your diatribe and have yet to find a single instance where you have addressed any point I made.

Are they doing anything illegal?

Aren't they doing what others do?

I recently got an email where they (progressives) were actively asking for money to build the same effort that you accuse the Koch bros. of doing.

I get the fact that you don't like capitalism.
I understand that you are a proponent of socialism, communism, collectivenism.

Why though, do you feel the need to change one form of government for another, when the types of government that you espouse already exist?

reply to post by NoHierarchy


I was actually just showing how influential he is with those links. Do you need more proof of his nature than the fact that he justifies his confiscating wealth for the nazis with zero remorse? He was split from genuine altruism at age 14, although he likely thinks he is now doing the right thing. Or maybe he just enjoys having power. It's hard to say for sure.

But you know I told someone once about him stealing wealth from the jews for the nazis and that person later told me that he thought Soros was a great guy because he "gives a lot of his wealth away". It's really strange how people justify the evil behavior as long as they seem to be giving their money away to some luckless soul, but Soros is really giving his money for an agenda not for pure philanthropy.
The motto of the Marxist socialist/communist is "the ends justify the means".

Remember who won the war. The Capitalists. And the winners of history write the textbooks. I'm sure if the other side had won, there would be textbooks going over the American genocide of the Native Americans, and the Japanese, and how the Americans were lynching African Americans. It would be laid out in very stark, humiliating terms, and the winners would gloss over their own atrocities, much like the Capitalists have.