A question of Masonic structure

OK, so we know each state in the US has it's own grand lodge. Each grand lodge can give and revoke charters for it's respective state. Each Grand lodge is chartered by the UGLE.

Now for the big question, What role, if any does the UGLE have in regards to US masonry? I am under the impression that aside from the initial charters given to each state, their role is non existent.
Is that correct?

And a second question for the brothers on the other side of the pond. What role does the UGLE hold outside of England?

Thanks in advance for your time.

Originally posted by network dude
Each Grand lodge is chartered by the UGLE.

Now for the big question, What role, if any does the UGLE have in regards to US masonry? I am under the impression that aside from the initial charters given to each state, their role is non existent.
Is that correct?

None of the US Grand Lodges are chartered by the UGLE.

The London Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons originally chartered Provincial Grand Lodges in the colonies, that were under the government of London. The same happened with the York Grand Lodge who chartered Provincial Grand Lodges of Antient York Masons in the colonies. When the revolution occured, the US Provincial Grand Lodges, both Antient and Modern, flushed their English charters down the toilet, and declared themselves sovereign and independent. This happened before the UGLE existed.

Years later, the Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons of England merged with the Grand Lodge of Antient York Masons of England, and gave birth to the current United Grand Lodge of England. Similar mergers happened here in the states. Over time, the Americans and English simply agreed to recognize each other.

England?

You do realise most US masonic orders are technically Scottish freemasonery? and adhere to the "Scottish Rite"

en.wikipedia.org...

Many famous and historical figures were Scottish Freemasons. One that always surprises people is Walt Disney.

The majority of masonic orders in the US have Scottish origins. From Scotland.

I hope I dont insult too many intelligences by pointing out that Scotland and England are two different countries although both part of the UK. We Scots don't always take too kindly to being lumped in with or reffered to as 'English' Although it was a long time ago, the English killed thousands of Scots, banned the Gaelic language and even banned bagpipes in addition to confiscating lands from us. Yes it was 1746 but we don't forget.

Originally posted by angus1745
England?

You do realise most US masonic orders are technically Scottish freemasonery? and adhere to the "Scottish Rite"

Actually, with the exception of only one district in New Orleans, all United States Lodges are York Rite, with English origin.

en.wikipedia.org...

Many famous and historical figures were Scottish Freemasons. One that always surprises people is Walt Disney.

Walt Disney was actually not a Mason, although sometimes he is confused as one. He was a member of the DeMolay Society, a Masonic youth organization, but never became a Mason as an adult.

The majority of masonic orders in the US have Scottish origins. From Scotland.

Actually, only one small one caomes from Scotland: the Royal Order of Scotland. The Scottish Rite does not come from Scotland. It was actually founded here in the United States, and has French origin.

reply to post by Masonic Light


So the UGLE has nothing at all to do with US freemasonry even in reference to charters?
I was not aware of that.

Originally posted by network dude
So the UGLE has nothing at all to do with US freemasonry even in reference to charters?

Correct. The UGLE did not even exist at the time (although its two forerunners did).

reply to post by angus1745


As ML said, the Scottish Rite was formed in Charleston SC and in actuality has nothing at all to do with Scotland. (I know, way strange) But I have heard Scottish Freemasonry has very rich traditions and is very respected. The Scottish Rite in the UK is very different than in the US. Most members do not go past the 18th degree, and a 32nd spends a lot of time and effort to gain that title, where as in the US, one only has to attend the reunion to be a 32nd.
Oh, and there is a lot of good beer over there.

Originally posted by angus1745
England?

You do realise most US masonic orders are technically Scottish freemasonery? and adhere to the "Scottish Rite"

en.wikipedia.org...

Many famous and historical figures were Scottish Freemasons. One that always surprises people is Walt Disney.

The majority of masonic orders in the US have Scottish origins. From Scotland.

I hope I dont insult too many intelligences by pointing out that Scotland and England are two different countries although both part of the UK. We Scots don't always take too kindly to being lumped in with or reffered to as 'English' Although it was a long time ago, the English killed thousands of Scots, banned the Gaelic language and even banned bagpipes in addition to confiscating lands from us. Yes it was 1746 but we don't forget.

You have a rather "Blinkered" version of English/Scottish history. I suggest you educate yourself:-

en.wikipedia.org...

Scottish Rite outside of the United States
[edit]United Kingdom In England and Wales, whose Supreme Council was warranted by that of the Northern Jurisdiction of the USA (in 1845),[37] the Rite is known colloquially as the "Rose Croix" or more formally as "The Ancient and Accepted Rite for England and Wales and its Districts and Chapters Overseas" (continental European jurisdictions retain the "Écossais"). The only local bodies are Rose Croix Chapters; many degrees are conferred in name only, and degrees beyond the 18° are conferred only by the Supreme Council itself. In England, the candidate is perfected in the 18th degree with the preceding degrees awarded in name only. Continuing to the 30th degree is restricted to those who have served in the chair of the Chapter. Elevation beyond the 30th degree is as in Scotland. In Scotland, candidates are perfected in the 18th degree, with the preceding degrees awarded in name only. A minimum of a two-year interval is required before continuing to the 30th degree, again with the intervening degrees awarded by name only. Elevation beyond that is by invitation only, and numbers are severely restricted.

source
This explains more of what I was talking about.

reply to post by network dude

I believe we got ours from Oregon or Washington.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by network dude

 

I believe we got ours from Oregon or Washington.

The first Texas lodge got its charter from Louisiana. It was carried in the saddle bags of Anson Jones (who later became the first Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of Texas) to the Battle of San Jacinto, where Gen. Sam Houston defeated Santa Anna to win independence for Texas from Mexico.

An important fact: All Grand Jurisdictions are sovereign. To say that US Grand Lodges hold charters from the UGLE would be like saying that the United States got its Constitution from the UK.

Grand Jurisdictions grant one another recognition and intervisitation basically by treaty. Because the UGLE is the oldest Grand Jurisdiction its views on recognition are given a great deal of respect and consideration by other jurisdictions. If you get de-recognized by the UGLE, you can expect that many other jurisdictions will be likely to follow suit. However, that is an entirely voluntary process.

Henry Price, the founder of duly constituted Freemasonry in North America (take that, PA), originally received his warrant from the premier Grand Lodge of England. But, of course, following the revolution, it seemed right for the new nation to have its own Grand Lodge -- and given the size of the country and the communication systems of the day, a Grand Lodge for each new state seemed best.

I have heard it said that after George Washington served as President, he was approached by a group of Masons and asked to serve as the first General Grand Master for a national, General Grand Lodge. The story goes that he thought this a spectacularly bad idea and declined. And that, allegedly, is why there is no national structure in Craft Masonry in the United States. True or not, it is a good tale.