Question for the atheists?

I am interested in how an atheist would answer this question. When I refer to atheists, I am talking about people that believe there is no higher power or moral force that governs the universe. If you believe in some sort of higher power, but have some major disagreements with the organized religions of the world (i) join the huge club and (ii) I would not consider you an atheist.

Imagine you meet a person in the wilderness. The person has a valuable jewel in his body. You are not financially stable, in fact, you are in dire financial straits. If you got the jewel, your financial worries would be over and you and your family would be financially secure for generations to come.

The only way to get the jewel is to kill the person slowly and painfully and rip the jewel from his innards. This person has no friends, no family, and will not be able to do anything for you socially or financially. The person is not an evil person, but he is not particularly likeable either. In fact, he is a bit annoying. If you do kill the person and take the jewel, you will also be able to get away with it without anybody knowing about it and without any worries of any legal liabilities, social stigmas, etc. You will also be able to get therapy that will deal with any trauma or psychological harm you suffer and the therapy will be 100% effective.

My question to you is- do you kill the man and take the jewel?

Couldn't this question be aimed at anyone, I would find the result far more interesting if you aimed it at both the religious and the atheists.

I know you only want atheists to answer but I can't help it. No I wouldn't kill the man, who am I to choose who lives and who dies.

ALS

I agree with ALostSoul. This question should be aimed at people of all faiths (or lack thereof), using spiritual, but not religious people, as the control for this social experiment.

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL


Most of us, including most atheists, would of course answer they would not kill the man. If you asked them why, they would say something to the effect of "it is just wrong." If you probed them further and tried to get to the kernel of why it is "just wrong" they might have to concede there is some sort of moral force in the universe that makes certain things "just wrong."

I am not here to argue that just because a moral force or higher power exists in the universe, that if follows one religious authority or text must also be 100% true. I am not also here to argue that it is always easy to determine what is right and what is wrong. I am of the belief that there is a moral force in this universe and that there are some things are are clearly right and some things that are clearly wrong, even if there is a gray area that many reasonable people can disagree on.

I'll answer as an atheist, though I have moments of doubt and generally think of myself as agnostic...

I would absolutely, definitely not kill the person to gain the jewel. I have a very strong conviction that killing another human being is immoral and wrong - under any circumstances (except possibly self-defense). I don't know where that conviction comes from, but I fully believe it is deep enough to rule my actions even in the extreme scenario you've imagined, and I know it does not come from religious belief or teaching.

Would it possible for you to share your view on the same que you asked ? For reference sake you know .

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


You know the old saying -"A fool can ask more questions than a wise man can answer".
This post fits into that category.
Seems to me that some christians would kill (and have killed) for profit, also some atheists.
This sort of behaviour by people in general has been going on for years, it has nothing to do with religion, unless the religion is used to justify this type of killing. That has frequently happened in the past.

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


Many refer to me as an athiest, however your explantion at the top I guess rules me out. No I don't believe in any god, if anything I think that our combined consciousness acts as a sort of god, playing out on our wishes and desires determiniate of how much we influence our conscience and in turn affecting everyone else. Personally I wouldn't kill anyone for any reason other than protecting my or somebody elses life. Taking somebody esle's life for financial gain, is silly and childish. I for one don't value money, for it has no value to me, same with the jewel, there is nothing I can do with the jewel by itself. Many people have the attitude today of everyman for himself, this isn't a very good one. I believe in reincarnation, And I refuse to believe that we only get one life to figure it all out. At the end, we aren't judged by god, or any higher being, it is much simpler. We judge ourselves at the end. We judge ourselves from an outside perspective, with the knowlegde of all of our past lives, so that we may determine if we evolve consciously. We have all worked ourselves through many lives starting with micro-organisms, moving on to insects, then animals, then on to us, and ultimately to something higher that we have not yet experienced. Many do not realize but we are our most critical criticizers. I remeber listening to a radio show, the host was talking to a listener about god, and what would he do(the listnener) if he found himself stuck in the middle of mountain country, with broken legs, and no hope to survive. Who would he talk to, apolgize to, pray to. The man did not have a very good answer, probably because he has not thought about it before, but I talk to myself, and I pray to all beings that are willing to listen and help me. Many believe that when they are stuck in some god awful situation they pray to god, and there astounded when somebody comes to save them, so it must have been a miracle of god. However what people don't realize is the influence of our minds. Praying is a constant ask for help within the mind, we have lost the knowledge that this acts like a signal going out and affecting everyone in the world sub consicously. Maybe instead of taking their normal trail, for whatever reason, this couple decides at the last second to try a new trail, subsequently leading them to the man who is stuck fighting for his life. Sorry for ramblin...

Is the person "carrying" the jewel a religious person, or is he also an atheist? Just wondering.

Not sure if I'm an atheist or not, but probably.

No.

Why would the thought even enter my mind?

Only sociopaths or the faithful could possibly think it was ok to do that.

I think most atheists would probably say no, because it is immoral and wrong, and you don't need religion to see that, nor a belief in any supreme being.

However, I suspect that you'd get more religionists of any stripe thinking that it was acceptable, because they could be forgiven eventually by whatever deity they believe in. It's what allows the faithful to do horrendous things to other humans, always has been. Within their religious beliefs they would find an appropriate justification.

Atheists, on the other hand, have to live with themselves and take personal responsibility for their behavior in ways unknown and unthought of by religionists.

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
My question to you is- do you kill the man and take the jewel?

Why is such an absurd question being posed only to atheists?

Morality is not the sole province of those who believe in a deity.

This is funny because this assumes that atheists do not have a moral code or something like that.Well in fact the morality of atheists is far more better and good because you do not do good things because you want god to like you or you want in heaven,you do good things because you want.

I would probably take the jewel if my family will be safe for generations to come.This way I will assure the good living of hundreds more at the cost of 1 miserable life.I assure you that the guy with the jewel would love to die too because a life without friends,family etc is not a good life.

Religious people will probably blame me because I have no soul and I'm evil for killing someone but If I remember correctly religion does not have a problem in killing people really.More people died in the name of God than in anything elste in the world.Remember the Dark Age,killing black cats,handicapped people,left handed people,people who are suspected for being wizards,witches,people possesed by demons,people killed because they had tourettes or other syndromes.

Not a good question.

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
I am interested in how an atheist would answer this question. When I refer to atheists, I am talking about people that believe there is no higher power or moral force that governs the universe. If you believe in some sort of higher power, but have some major disagreements with the organized religions of the world (i) join the huge club and (ii) I would not consider you an atheist.

Imagine you meet a person in the wilderness. The person has a valuable jewel in his body. You are not financially stable, in fact, you are in dire financial straits. If you got the jewel, your financial worries would be over and you and your family would be financially secure for generations to come.

The only way to get the jewel is to kill the person slowly and painfully and rip the jewel from his innards. This person has no friends, no family, and will not be able to do anything for you socially or financially. The person is not an evil person, but he is not particularly likeable either. In fact, he is a bit annoying. If you do kill the person and take the jewel, you will also be able to get away with it without anybody knowing about it and without any worries of any legal liabilities, social stigmas, etc. You will also be able to get therapy that will deal with any trauma or psychological harm you suffer and the therapy will be 100% effective.

My question to you is- do you kill the man and take the jewel?

This is a really weird question because your making it out like if i was religious, i wouldnt even consider this.

Well im not religious and think its a massive sham, but i still wouldnt be so heartless to kill another man for my own self progression.

Killing the man and securing your own wealth is not been an atheist, thats been an capitalistic maniac that derives his own self care through the loss of others.

Nothing to do with religion

I am a secular humanist. Murder of a fellow human being is wrong, regardless of some perceived profit.

This whole thought experiment is absurd. The postulated question acts as though atheists are somehow less than human, or have no regard for human life. You do not need to believe in gods to believe in morals.

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


I'm a - sort of - atheist and would not kill the man, not because it is morally wrong but because it is ethically wrong. One person's life is worth more than all of the material riches in the universe in my opinion. How do you explain the fact that some people do kill others for personal gain? Possibly because they don't value their own life very much and so have no concept of the value of someone else's. This tendency is not confined to atheists - while some religious people have spiritual beliefs that give value and meaning to their lives, others are trapped in a life-denying, hateful religiousity that has nothing to do with spirituality and everything to do with control of others.

It is wrong to kill the man, because the man is you. We may not realize it yet, but we are all one in the same, all connected and derived from one single consciousness that for whatever reason sparked the beginning of the universe. This is why consciousness is not tied to space-time, since it existed before. This also means that our consciousness is not bound by time, or dimension, which means we have access to all times and dimensions within our heads. We can look into the future as well as the past the problem is we don't know who's past or future we are looking into. We don't know if it exists in this dimension or another. So why kill this man? For all the material things in the world? This isn't what life is about. For any of you that have ever cheated at a videogame, it might be fun at first, but if you unlock everything it soons gets very boring. This is because life is more about the journey then the destination. Not many people realize this until they get to the destination. Not all, but I think many realize this when contemplating such a deed, killing this man is like cheating, and at the end theres more value and experience in not cheating, that value and experience is what drives us to evolve consciously. We all deep down want to evolve consciously, we may be just confused on how, but cheating the journey would just mean that were postponing it for a later time. No one really wants to do that, for we know that there will be a time when we judge ourselves and we choose when we move on.

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


Are you for real?

I AM an atheist, very very secular from birth on.

And yes, of course I WOULD NEVER KILL THIS PERSON! Are you insane? Do you really think that only some stories from some fairy book give you morality or ethics? How incredible stupid is this?! Don't you think that atheists had parents, too?

Go away, fanatic! Leave and take your hypocrasy with you! How DARE YOU!

I think the OP should have posed this question to politicians only... maybe then his/her assumptions of immorality of a specific group/type of people would actually come to fruition.

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


OF course I wouldn't kill him, I'm an Atheist, not a Catholic, Christian, Jew or Muslim, that would find a reason in their book of delusions to back up killing him.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


What is morality? Where does it come from?

People that believe in a god or higher power can say morality stems form the higher power. (Come to think of it, that is an easy, yet intellectually lazy answer.) If you do not believe in any sort of higher power, you may have to question where morality comes from or if it truly exists.

Some would say morality is a set of rules people made up for pragmatic purposes. A society where people act morally is more efficient than a society where people act immorally. But in this situation, the ruthlessly pragmatic thing to would be to kill the man and take the jewel. After all, the man has no economic value to you or society as a whole, while the jewel does have value. You also don't have to worry about guilt or psychological problems, because in this situation you will get 100% therapy.

The only real drawback to killing the man is morality, in and of itself. Most people, atheists included, would not kill the man simply because it is the moral thing to do. Yet why and how is it the moral thing to do? Why should an immoral act in and of itself be bad?