Im mad/jealous that God doesn't talk to me or anyone I know.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon

 

Once the body dies you can't be punished physically...

Well, no, but IMHO the emotional punishment is far worse. Apart from God there is no love, no compassion, and especially zero hope. How horrifying would that be, to have absolutely no hope for the future. That's the ONLY thing that kept POWs in WWII going. The hope that they'd be freed, the hope that one day they could return home to their loved ones.

People look at the flames of Hell, that's not the bad torment. The terrible torment is eternal separation from God.

Edit: And I want to add for clarity that before final judgment the dead will be resurrected with a new body that can also be subjected to the physical torment of Hell as well.

edit on 28-12-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

See this is where we disagree my friend... I don't believe seperation from God is possible... because we are a part of him, in body and spirit...

We are just along for his ride... and have little to no control over it.

Now considering your edit...

before final judgment the dead will be resurrected with a new body that can also be subjected to the physical torment of Hell as well

Would you not believe that the verse within Pistis Sophia would be logical or at least might have some relevance? I know you "dislike" gnostic scripture but none the less...

A "man who curses" is given a body that will be continually "troubled in heart". A "man who slanders" receives a body that will be "oppressed". A thief receives a "lame, crooked and blind body". A "proud" and "scornful" man receives "a lame and ugly body" that "everyone continually despises." Thus earth, as well as hell, becomes the place of punishment.

reply to post by sputniksteve


Not true. Saul of Tarsus didn't believe Jesus was the Messiah and he persecuted christians, had them tortured and executed for believing in Jesus, until one day Jesus appeared before him shining with bright light (his glorified body) and asked him "Saul, why do you persecute me?", this event happened after Jesus had resurrected and ascended yet he appeared and spoke to Saul (who later became Apostle Paul) and Saul didn't even believe in him.

God spoke to Abraham when Abraham was worshipping pagan gods, so you see he does speak to people who do not believe in him and people of other religions. He speaks to those he chooses to do some great task. If he doesn't speak to you its because he has not chosen you. He does things for his own reasons. One thing is certain, when he does choose someone there is no doubt by them of who he is speaking to, it will not be an event where you have to ask him who he is, you will automatically know.

reply to post by Akragon

See this is where we disagree my friend... I don't believe seperation from God is possible... because we are a part of him, in body and spirit...

Okay, in that sense I agree, God is omnipresent, but what I meant by the term "separation" is that God no longer offers His grace to the dead. Separation from Him in that sense.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Fair enough... see we agree on some things

Now what is his "grace"?

And you didn't comment on the Verse i offered...

.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Fair enough... see we agree on some things

Now what is his "grace"?

And you didn't comment on the Verse i offered...

.

Well, i think his grace is his forgiveness. This is supported by the saved through Jesus' grace doctrine i suppose. His saving grace, is always his ability to forgive others. Thats my take on it anyway.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


I would agree with that as well...

Though i would define grace as inerrancy... The only place you can find that is within Jesus and what he taught...

Inerrancy that comes with ease, without thought...like the story in Luke

14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

16And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Fair enough... see we agree on some things

Now what is his "grace"?

And you didn't comment on the Verse i offered...

.

I meant no disrespect by that, I figured you'd not expect me to offer my thoughts on the Gnostic texts since we've previously discussed my aversion to them. But I'll comment since you've asked. I dunno about that, it is possible that the resurrected bodies the damned are given correlate somehow to their judgement for their sins, I don't really know.

EDIT: Sorry, you asked what I mean by the term "grace". Grace is unmerited favor from God. It's the opposite of "mercy". Or another way to look at the two terms from scripture.

1. GRACE -> Receiving from God that which we do not deserve in any way.
2. MERCY -> NOT receiving from God that which we do deserve.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Fair enough... see we agree on some things

Now what is his "grace"?

And you didn't comment on the Verse i offered...

.

Well, i think his grace is his forgiveness. This is supported by the saved through Jesus' grace doctrine i suppose. His saving grace, is always his ability to forgive others. Thats my take on it anyway.

Yes, all men receive general grace from God. (Sunlight, rain, et cetra) "Saving grace" is not offered to the entire world, only those in a covenant relationship with Him through Christ.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Fair enough... see we agree on some things

Now what is his "grace"?

And you didn't comment on the Verse i offered...

.

Well, i think his grace is his forgiveness. This is supported by the saved through Jesus' grace doctrine i suppose. His saving grace, is always his ability to forgive others. Thats my take on it anyway.

Yes, all men receive general grace from God. (Sunlight, rain, et cetra) "Saving grace" is not offered to the entire world, only those in a covenant relationship with Him through Christ.

Grace is this, even though Jesus could have any time not gone to the cross and could have been taken off by ten thousand angels who were waiting to protect him, even if He were to trip on a rock, grace is going anyway because it meant to save people who He knew would hate Him. Grace is not destroying this world in the condition it was in, even though He could have.

Grace is loving those who hate Him. There will come an end to grace, because God is longsuffering for only so long. When God says "enough is enough", that is it. Kind of like when dad says "I will pull this car over if you don't stop it". You know dad will keep his patience for so long, then that is it.

Grace is, knowing those who hate Him, He still loves them enough to die for them.

reply to post by WarminIndy


YES!

In short, grace is any "unmerited favor from God."

Because we deserve nothing from Him, all we receive is grace upon grace. Not because of our faithfulness, but because of HIS!

Praise the Lord.

You should probably define the word "god" as many have different beliefs on what that is.
Eg. I believe the human was created by a higher enitity, but our spirits where created by something even higher.
I believe god to be the sun or "prana (life energy)" as many religions hint that.

To the point.....
I have Heard someone talk to me 3 times. It was in my head while in a deep trance.
It called my name and asked if i could here them. Two times it was a male and one time it was a female.

On a christian context. The bible speaks of the "wheels upon wheels' to reach god.
I believe this is reference to be "merkabah" which is the spirits light vehicle.
So in order to reach god you must first be in spirit.
If you do not believe the spirit and body to be two separate things, i presume that's why u have not heard from "god"

Hey OP I have till this day have trouble with hearing the voice of God I also try to believe in God cause I have seen people be cured of sickness right before my own eyes but yet its so hard to believe. I have seen my aunt and mom be demon possessed right in front of me, you know throwing up blood with a loud screaming voice but yet I still can't believe the only thing that I can think of is like the pharaoh when Moses was telling him to release the slaves from Egypt the pharaoh wouldn't listen to God through Moses he wouldn't obey in my opinion was because his magicians were able to mimic some of Gods miracles its like what science is doing today to a lot of Gods work. Let me just say in the times of Noah no one believed Noah about a flood coming cause it never rained before, but when the rain came it was to late. Just like these days men can't believe in God thanks to science, but when Jesus comes it would be to late for us who are trying to believe. Let me give you places in the Bible to read, they sometimes help me.

MATTHEW c16 v13-28 this helps me with how to hear God and how the evil thoughts in your head are thoughts of the enemy not satan himself talking in your head cause he is not omnipresent but on how he has society now in days with these movies and music which are so perverted and really offensive but many consider them normal now in days.

JOHN c20 v24-30 this helps me on how we should believe with faith alone not evidence.

LUKE c17 v26 this reminds me that day of Christ return is near and I really need to step it up lol well I hope this helps you.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Unmerited favor is but one aspect of grace. The most complete definition I have ever come up with for grace is the devine nature of God in the heart of man, and its influence in life. The old covenant dealt with the law. The law was an attempt to show man how to do it by himself, to be like God on his own merit. It was a spectacular failure. The new covenant is God placing his nature directly into your heart upon request. While this is truly unmerited. The unmerited favor aspect of grace is often miscunstrued as a license to do as one wishes without repercussion. Anyone can ask for God's nature, and it doesn't have anything to do with joining clubs, or wearing labels. It especially has nothing to do with becoming a pious dick with a superiority complex, but that's what man likes to do with it.

I am not a religious person, and I disagree with much of what the control paradigm of man has injected into the Holy texts of our world, but you have to learn to glean the wheat, and throw away the chaff. God has a hard time communicatng through written works because we like to "edit" them for him.

As to the OP's question about communication with God. The universe declares his handiwork. Every time you look into the eyes of a child God is speaking volumes. We have simply forgotten how to listen.

reply to post by sputniksteve


Why would God talk to you if you are hurting others, or leading others to sin. Furthermore each time you look at a woman with lust you are sinning against God's future bride. Do you not also know that God hates all that do iniquity?

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


Speak of the devil, and in he walks. If you haven't noticed, people who hurt others(Saul of Tarsis), and are in great need of saving from themselves(balaam, and his ass) are the very ones God usually speaks to in a perceptible audible etc. way. If you are hearing the audible voice of God you are probably in deep fecal matter. I look upon my wife with lust quite often, is God jealous? I hope not. Humanity, or more specifically the church is the bride of Christ allegorically, if not God is also Homosexual. I'm pretty sure you have just misconstrued some religious rhetoric there. As far as the God hates this, and God hates that jargon, again control paradigm. Spit it out man, spit it out.

Pious judgement serves only the judge. Work out YOUR OWN salvation with fear, and trembling. Cleanse your heart not your garments. It is about partaking in devine nature not a rule following contest. Take the training wheels(religion) off your spiritual life, and learn who God is before you assume who he likes, or doesn't like, or who he speaks to, and how.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


revelation... i agree with you, but are you really going to tell a nonbeliever that? sometimes, people of the faith push future believers away. if the person has no will to serve God, how are you telling someone what God expects without that person even having a personal relationship with Father going to help that person?

i understand you trying to help that person... but were you not a sinner before you met Christ? the OP has not accepted Christ, maybe one day he will, maybe he won't. I personally would hope that the love of our Savior has manifested in me enough for my light to shine for others.

but revelation does add something to ponder about...
if you want to hear God, and you continue the life you do, to knowingly put yourself in the position of rock bottom, are you not testing God? i think if you want to hear the voice of God, you gotta take it upon yourself to repent, accept Christ as our savior, and turn away from the flesh.

Originally posted by sputniksteve
I was thinking about something the other day, and how people sometimes describe conversations and relationships with God. This is the Christian God we're talking about now. Well I am getting to the point of being pissed off that he/she/it keeps ignoring me, and not answering my calls for conversation. For that matter, he has never talked to anyone I know either and they are almost 100% coming from Christian back grounds. Especially my grandparents, they are straight up holy rollers. This is meant to be light hearted and humorous but honest too, because I have called out many times for the affirmation I so desire but am constantly ignored.

What my question really is though, has anyone ever heard of God talking to someone that wasn't already a Christian? I mean you hear of someone that is already a believer, or at least knows of Christianity hearing Gods voice and conversing with that voice. But I believe they are already biased towards assuming that voice is coming from a certain individual or entity.

So for instance has a buddhist in China ever been walking the rice paddy when all of a sudden Gods voice came booming down from heaven convincing said person to then investigate a religion they had never heard of before? Someone growing up in the Jungle of Cambodia living a tribal life that has never seen another person outside their tribe, or heard the ideas presented by outsiders; Could they too spontaneously hear the voice of God and then become a believer?

I want to believe in God and Heaven more than anything in life, I desperately want to know that there is a reason for living and doing the things we do. I feel like I need it like my body needs water. Only every part of my senses and intelligence is telling me not to, because there is 0 proof that I can personally validate.

Then this leads me to wonder, if the case is that God only talks to people that already know about/believe in him then what kind of crappy God is that? A majority of the worlds population is just out of luck because they weren't lucky enough to be born in a place that has bibles and churches? It seems to me it is the people that don't know about him that need his salvation more than anyone else. If you know about God and you know what rules he set for us and you break them that act is all on you. But if you are completely ignorant of God and his rules you should be the first in queue for that booming voice. At least that is my opinion.

I know this doesn't flow very well and I jumped around a little bit, I have a hard time putting my thoughts in cohesive order sometimes I apologize. This isn't meant to start any arguments, I am honestly just wondering if anyone has any answers or can provide me any instances of God talking to a non-believer/unknowing.

God doesn't have to shout, give you signs and proofs. You need them, not God.

God has no need.

If you want to hear God, get quiet.

The Bible puts it like this: "Be still, and know that I am God".

You may have to "be still" for years, or seconds, everyone is a different case.

That is why prayer and meditation are part of most faiths looking for God (not just Christians).

The prophet Isiah went up a mountain to find God. There was a storm, a wildfire and an earthquake but God did not speak to Isiah from any of these.

The voice of God was in the silence.

My wife had a Catholic upbringing but never professed faith in God.

In her early twenties, she had a severe motorbike accident that put her in a coma for weeks and also damaged her memory.

She had recollections of events that happened while she was unconscious and she believes Jesus spoke to her and explained that she had a second chance.

She is a changed person and deeply devout and has given her life to Christ (after recovering from the accident).

She still occasionally somehow understands/knows things that my rational thought processes boggle at. She just "knows" and says the Holy Spirit told her. The thing is, when she says it's from the Holy Spirit, she has never been wrong.

I have been married to her for twenty years now and still am amazed!

I have also been given understandings that are from the Holy Spirit.

They definitely did not come from my own mental processes but appeared fully and complete without volition and without any prior thought.

The fact that these thoughts usually come with a bible verse in agreement confirms their source (to me).

But I am a Christian, so perhaps I don't qualify for what you are asking.

Originally posted by sputniksteve

I want to believe in God and Heaven more than anything in life, I desperately want to know that there is a reason for living and doing the things we do. I feel like I need it like my body needs water. Only every part of my senses and intelligence is telling me not to, because there is 0 proof that I can personally validate.

Wow Steve, you're so much more on the right path than you even realise. You want a relationship. You want the real deal. Not a social club, not a control mechanism to barter power with your sphere of influence. You have the heart of a true believer, a "real" christian. Chr0naut is absolutely right. The voice of God is in the silence. I can't explain that, but when it happens for you, and it will, you will know of what we speak. God has spoken to you since the day you were born. You are already where you need to be. All you need is to just accept it. You will probably never hear the voice of God audibly. His voice comes from your heart because that is where he wants his nature to reside so the voice inside is yours, but his thoughts.

The fervent desire you have to be close to God is God speaking to you. It is his yearning, you are simply interpreting it as your own. I believe when you read through this thread it is going to click. I think this is your Eureka moment. Once you get to know God that still small voice in your head becomes clearly discernable from the background noise of your own thoughts. Everything in this universe is an echo of his voice. It isn't the transmitter it's the reciever. You have heard Gods voice, you are hearing it now. You just have to trim the tuner in a bit to hear more clearly. It also is seldom in words, but in unctions, feelings, and drawings to certain things. Learn to cultivate his presence. follow His leading for you, and don't let anything, any man no matter what his position says sway you from what you hear in your heart if it is from God.

You see God just told me to write this, and I have not written about God, or spoken on spiritual topics on ATS much at all. I hold a view that few mainstream religious zealots appreciate, but God's direction, and influence in my life is nonetheless great. Jesus was not liked, or appreciated much by the religious zealots of his day either. He hung out with the "wrong" crowd. God loves you as is, and I love you too. Be still listen, and don't doubt the message because the "voice" sounds like your own.