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Priests brawl in Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity
page: 4share:
Originally posted by SheeplFlavoredAgain
reply to post by colbe
Hi Colbe and WarminIndy, I can't fully address all that you both have written but I thank you both for your contributions in this discussion.
Colbe, your comment about the pedophile priests and about Satan wanting to mess up a good thing, I do believe that. I have seen how that entity messes with people. In my posting history on ATS it's no secret I've alluded to and sought help for some paranormal problems that are basically spiritual attacks in my home. These events reached a peak just as I was setting up in the most preliminary way, preparations to have my daughter at least take Baptism classes and figure out where I was going to enroll in RCIA. I wasn't necessarily going to convert but I did at least want to understand better the beliefs of the family I married into.
To recount everything that happened would be a lot to go into, but the end result is my sponsor suddenly took very ill and almost died, my daughter and I got terrified out of her wits by something I'm not going to discuss now, and I had to stop everything. In addition to all that we both kept getting sick. A catholic friend of mine, also a former Protestant, told me she suspected we were under spiritual attack and has been praying for us. She said she has gone through one but not as overt as what we went through.
That is one of the things I do value about Catholicism, they take evil in all of its manifestations very seriously and provide resources for even lay people to understand what they are dealing with. I am descended from a line of pagan female shamans in my Asian line. My mother's mother was the last shaman but current generations still have lingering problems with ticked off entities that hang around wondering why we don't serve them anymore. I've had to bring some problems to my pastors in my youth and they were so far removed from this level of spiritual existence and battle they could only think I was complaining my house was haunted, to which of course they gave the sensible but useless reply of don't worry, there's no such thing as ghosts.
Some Protestant churches have preserved the ancient beliefs of the true nature of evil and how to fight it, but mine did not. I do therefore believe too much got thrown out in the Reformation. I do believe though that basic rebellious ideas in the Reformation were necessary to force the Catholic Church into examining its sins and excesses. Not all of the rebellion was a heresy. Heresy was a buzzword Satan threw around to protect some beliefs and practices he sneaked into the Church to corrupt it from within. And history does bear witness to the fact that at one time for a very long multi generational period, the Church did more harm than good for people.
That does not mean the Church is invalid but it serves to show us at any given moment evil can hold sway over the best intentioned institution or individuals we are to take no mere man's word or authority above that of the Holy Spirit's. Jesus himself told us to question everything and test it to discern for ourselves if it is of God or not.
For all the good that any church or any human can contain within at any moment, there are jealous, deceiving hate filled forces working constantly to destroy this good by any means possible.edit on 1-1-2012 by SheeplFlavoredAgain because: Fixing typos and sentences.
SheeplFA, hi and Happy New Year,
WarmnIndy, LuanaK, autowrench and the rest of the regulars I talk with,
I love you all. It's that I wish you to become Roman Catholic. I have
faith, the events prophesied are going to happen. The "cup" is full and
running over, God is going to bring a change. And no one disagrees,
Jesus said it in a prayer to the Father, that we might all be one in belief.
I underlined one line, I think you believe the same. Man has a fallen nature, Satan's attacks, history shows all through the ages, men are capable of evil, of grave sin. We need God's help. Evil is going to and is in the process right now more than ever and we see the evidence in our time of Satan try faith are trueing to destroy the true faith (Roman Catholicism) BUT the teachings of the faith are true, the same today as given the Apostles by Our Lord. Hang on to them.
The Eucharist is true.
You were hit, I'll offer prayers for your daughter to be baptized. Baptism
is the means to receive God in your soul for the first time. It is needed, it's never an option. Why the Church recognizes the Baptism of our brothers and sisters in Christ if done properly, with water and said, in the
name of the Trinity, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
I have a niece and a nephew who haven't been baptized. It kills me.
love,
colbe
Sorry, I should use preview.
I meant to type:
"Man has a fallen nature, Satan's attacks, history shows all through the ages, men are capable of evil, of grave sin. We need God's help. Evil is going to and is in the process right now more than ever and we see the evidence in our time of Satan trying to destroy the true faith (Roman Catholicism). BUT the teachings of the faith are true, the same today as given the Apostles by Our Lord. Hang on to them."
colbe
I meant to type:
"Man has a fallen nature, Satan's attacks, history shows all through the ages, men are capable of evil, of grave sin. We need God's help. Evil is going to and is in the process right now more than ever and we see the evidence in our time of Satan trying to destroy the true faith (Roman Catholicism). BUT the teachings of the faith are true, the same today as given the Apostles by Our Lord. Hang on to them."
colbe
Originally posted by colbe
Originally posted by SheeplFlavoredAgain
reply to post by colbe
[
WarmnIndy, LuanaK, autowrench and the rest of the regulars I talk with,
I love you all. It's that I wish you to become Roman Catholic. I have
faith, the events prophesied are going to happen. The "cup" is full and
running over, God is going to bring a change. And no one disagrees,
Jesus said it in a prayer to the Father, that we might all be one in belief.
Colbe, I think by now you should understand that I do not wish to be Catholic, and LunaKat and autowrench do not wish to be Christian. LunaKat and autowrench have the right of their conscience to worship whatever they want, and that choice is theirs alone because they are responsible for their own salvation that they have to work out. I will leave them to their goddess, and if they believe their goddess will help them, then we can't force them to be anything else.
I do not believe that you can light a candle to get me to believe and I do not believe your rosary prayers can make me be Catholic.
Now about SheeplFA, she needs spiritual help because that is indeed an attack against her family and she needs prayer to end it. So I will say a prayer for SheeplFA, and I know and trust that my prayers are heard because time and time again they have been answered. The only answer I have seen from you, Colbe, is that God does not answer people if they are not Catholic, but that is not true. God lives in our hearts and seeks those that worship in Spirit and in truth.
Thank you both for the prayers. We sure could use them. And I appreciate being taken seriously on the matter. I sometimes take the Internet for
granted now. Now thanks to the Internet I can find people have experienced unusual events similar to mine and find people willing to openly discuss
subjects that face to face, we would normally keep amongst the skeletons in our closet. But back when I was growing up, and stuff happened that I
could not explain or understand or even know where to research, I counted on those who set themselves up as authorities on spiritual matters and was
disappointed to find their world view was very solidly materialistic. In fact one of the pastors was so materialistic that he later confessed to
embezzlement and fraud. The youth pastor was in his mid twenties and drove me out by stalking me. That was a Baptist church that I'd been a member of
since I was about four.
I gave up on religion altogether when my grandmother's Pentecostal minister abandoned her when she got Alzheimer's. She no longer could tithe. And she was a very generous tither all her life. This minister has known my mom's family for about fifty five years!
These days, I occasionally attend mass with my husband's family at one of four Catholic churches, depending on who is visiting whom and if we are vacationing together. My favorite one is a multicultural Franciscan church. If, and that is a big "if", I become a member of a church again, it will be this one. I love their focus on charity and helping the poor. The priests are jolly and always smiling and the focus of the whole congregation is on helping the immigrant population adjust to life in the USA and they also do a lot of habitat for humanity type of projects.
I think that is the kind of people I need to surround myself with because if I have one current overwhelming character flaw it is that I get really irritated and angry and resentful of the illegal immigrants and the problems that come with them. I know if Jesus were to sit down and have a heart to heart talk with me, he would tell me he does not look at people's immigration status, and if I am really mad about the problems the illegal immigrants cause, then I should get to know them and help them figure out how to stop being a drain and a problem and help them become contributing members of society. He would tell me they just want to eat and raise their kids without threat of violence and poverty like I did. And I should be sympathetic since I came from a poor rough neighborhood myself.
Because this church is so welcoming to diverse people, they are even welcoming to people from diverse religious backgrounds.
Two of the most important churches in my life got corrupted by greed for material things. It does go to show it isn't just a Catholic problem. We all talk on ATS a lot about the great wealth of treasures and knowledge the leaders of the Catholic church are sitting on. To me it's a non issue so long as the local body that I take part in does what it is supposed to do, minister to the poor as Christ told us to. If they provide me the framework in which to do that sacred duty, the Pope can sit on wealth and secrets if he wants to. He and I both will end up having to answer to the very same final authority as equals in the eyes of God.
So in the final analysis, I will at some point need to get off my dead butt and join my brethren doing what Christ commanded. In the end, whatever the name or denomination is doesn't matter to me as long as you can know we are of Christ by looking at the results. Are the poor fed? Are the sick and widowed comforted and remembered? Are the people being told the Gospel in a way that makes them feel God's love and truly understand why Jesus did what he did? The answers better all be yes.
I gave up on religion altogether when my grandmother's Pentecostal minister abandoned her when she got Alzheimer's. She no longer could tithe. And she was a very generous tither all her life. This minister has known my mom's family for about fifty five years!
These days, I occasionally attend mass with my husband's family at one of four Catholic churches, depending on who is visiting whom and if we are vacationing together. My favorite one is a multicultural Franciscan church. If, and that is a big "if", I become a member of a church again, it will be this one. I love their focus on charity and helping the poor. The priests are jolly and always smiling and the focus of the whole congregation is on helping the immigrant population adjust to life in the USA and they also do a lot of habitat for humanity type of projects.
I think that is the kind of people I need to surround myself with because if I have one current overwhelming character flaw it is that I get really irritated and angry and resentful of the illegal immigrants and the problems that come with them. I know if Jesus were to sit down and have a heart to heart talk with me, he would tell me he does not look at people's immigration status, and if I am really mad about the problems the illegal immigrants cause, then I should get to know them and help them figure out how to stop being a drain and a problem and help them become contributing members of society. He would tell me they just want to eat and raise their kids without threat of violence and poverty like I did. And I should be sympathetic since I came from a poor rough neighborhood myself.
Because this church is so welcoming to diverse people, they are even welcoming to people from diverse religious backgrounds.
Two of the most important churches in my life got corrupted by greed for material things. It does go to show it isn't just a Catholic problem. We all talk on ATS a lot about the great wealth of treasures and knowledge the leaders of the Catholic church are sitting on. To me it's a non issue so long as the local body that I take part in does what it is supposed to do, minister to the poor as Christ told us to. If they provide me the framework in which to do that sacred duty, the Pope can sit on wealth and secrets if he wants to. He and I both will end up having to answer to the very same final authority as equals in the eyes of God.
So in the final analysis, I will at some point need to get off my dead butt and join my brethren doing what Christ commanded. In the end, whatever the name or denomination is doesn't matter to me as long as you can know we are of Christ by looking at the results. Are the poor fed? Are the sick and widowed comforted and remembered? Are the people being told the Gospel in a way that makes them feel God's love and truly understand why Jesus did what he did? The answers better all be yes.
edit on 2-1-2012 by SheeplFlavoredAgain because: Shortened it.
Originally posted by WarminIndy
Originally posted by colbe
Originally posted by SheeplFlavoredAgain
reply to post by colbe
[
WarmnIndy, LuanaK, autowrench and the rest of the regulars I talk with,
I love you all. It's that I wish you to become Roman Catholic. I have
faith, the events prophesied are going to happen. The "cup" is full and
running over, God is going to bring a change. And no one disagrees,
Jesus said it in a prayer to the Father, that we might all be one in belief.
Colbe, I think by now you should understand that I do not wish to be Catholic, and LunaKat and autowrench do not wish to be Christian. LunaKat and autowrench have the right of their conscience to worship whatever they want, and that choice is theirs alone because they are responsible for their own salvation that they have to work out. I will leave them to their goddess, and if they believe their goddess will help them, then we can't force them to be anything else.
I do not believe that you can light a candle to get me to believe and I do not believe your rosary prayers can make me be Catholic.
Now about SheeplFA, she needs spiritual help because that is indeed an attack against her family and she needs prayer to end it. So I will say a prayer for SheeplFA, and I know and trust that my prayers are heard because time and time again they have been answered. The only answer I have seen from you, Colbe, is that God does not answer people if they are not Catholic, but that is not true. God lives in our hearts and seeks those that worship in Spirit and in truth.
You could not go one reply without saying something unkind about me.
It's not true, your accusation. God hears all prayers, He loves everyone.
He answers each prayer according to His will, the best for each soul. My
prayers for you don't work but yours are all answered, okay.
And not a word from you on Our Lord's words explaining how He can be in you and you in Him. You were the one to quote it first. It is through the Eucharist, just as He said...His body and blood, believed since 33 A.D. I wish you would believe before the Great Warning.
There's a mystery, how prayer, free will and God's action works together to change a person's heart. Heaven is begging for prayers.
Believe WII. Here is a message to a Protestant prophet, Glynda Lomax given yesterday, Our Lord brings up the need for prayer to save souls.
www.wingsofprophecy.blogspot.com...
January 1, 2012
message to Glynda
2012 - Many Changes, Miracles
Go forth. Go forth now and preach My gospel, My people. This time is like no other before it. You are living in a time of great changes, of transition.
The enemy of your souls is hard at work trying to defeat you, but many of you have stood strong against him and allowed him not. This year you shall be rewarded for standing. This shall be a year of mighty miracles among My people, for My people who are called by My name shall go forth and do mighty exploits for Me this year. Even those of you who think you have been left behind, who feel unimportant, I tell you truly, you are not unimportant in My eyes and I have a great destiny for you as well!
I shall open up new ways and avenues to get My gospel out and you shall travel them, My people. You shall be carriers of My glorious presence in the earth as you walk in My ways and do what I have called you to do.
I shall do mighty exploits in the midst of you, My people. You shall be delighted and awestruck as you observe My miracle working power in your midst.
You that have obeyed Me and continued in My word, who are truly My disciples shall know great reward for your suffering this very year. Yes, your time has come for My mighty promises to be fulfilled in your lives. You have watched and waited faithfully. At times you wondered if I would manifest My promises at all. Now I shall.
This shall be a year of the transition of many nations. Many changes shall take place. Some will shock you. You will see My mighty hand at work in some of these. Hold on for this ride shall be bumpy at times, My children, but many of you going in My name shall hardly notice those changes for the change taking place in your own life as I take you from glory to glory in My holy word for you shall see some long desired changes manifesting in you.
I shall destroy the yokes of bondage off My people this year as they obey Me and continue in My holy word. I shall remove some of those that affect you in your personal lives. Pray for them, My children, for their judgment shall be great if they continue refusing to repent. Pray for them diligently for your prayers are heard in heaven. They come up before My very throne and are of great value to Me and you shall reap the rewards of them in your own lives there on earth....
reply to post by colbe
For what it is worth, Colbe, I have no personal objection if you want to pray for me to convert to Catholicism. I won't be offended. My in-law's already do that. At first I was offended they didn't think my salvation was complete but then I realized they simply love me and want me to follow the path they believe is the best one for me. I figure if it is God's will, it will be done eventually. I don't know what precisely to do so I just keep praying for guidance and revelation. That is how I got switched over from being pro-choice for myself to being the opposite for myself. However I was made to understand my revelation was intended for me personally and how I am to make my choices, not anyone else's. (I'm a believer in encouraging people to take their questions to God and getting their answer directly, if they aren't persuaded one way or the other by the words of man). What that means is I went from being determined if my mid life pregnancy was going to endanger my life, I'd seek a termination, to giving the actual orders that if an emergency happened, the baby's life was to be put first.
I similarly got a revelation about the Eucharist. I was sitting with my in-law's at Mass, feeling as usual, rather resentful I couldn't take part in communion despite the fact I am a declared baptized Christian. I actually mumbled in my head "What's the big furry deal?".
I got hit with the answer. I felt the presence of Christ and the transubst...ah heck I can't spell it. Well you know what I'm talking about, I felt the whole miracle and mystery play out and I just KNEW everything I'd been taught and believed about the communion celebration (my church didn't even call it Eucharist) was incomplete to say the least. Even my Catholic but scientific minded husband can't quite bring himself to say the change that happens during Eucharist without hemming and hawing about it. He believes, I'm sure, but isn't comfortable declaring it to a non believer. I've got no trouble with it. I believe, so I'll declare it and take the criticisms that may come with it. I know what I experienced that day and it wasn't indigestion!
So if it's meant to be for me, it will happen. I'm always sincerely and humbly seeking and I have every faith that God will answer as we were promised He would. I do sometimes lean on my own understanding a bit much but I get steered back on the right path eventually. My angry prideful days and ways sometimes come back to me but I know now the pitfalls of giving in to them.
For what it is worth, Colbe, I have no personal objection if you want to pray for me to convert to Catholicism. I won't be offended. My in-law's already do that. At first I was offended they didn't think my salvation was complete but then I realized they simply love me and want me to follow the path they believe is the best one for me. I figure if it is God's will, it will be done eventually. I don't know what precisely to do so I just keep praying for guidance and revelation. That is how I got switched over from being pro-choice for myself to being the opposite for myself. However I was made to understand my revelation was intended for me personally and how I am to make my choices, not anyone else's. (I'm a believer in encouraging people to take their questions to God and getting their answer directly, if they aren't persuaded one way or the other by the words of man). What that means is I went from being determined if my mid life pregnancy was going to endanger my life, I'd seek a termination, to giving the actual orders that if an emergency happened, the baby's life was to be put first.
I similarly got a revelation about the Eucharist. I was sitting with my in-law's at Mass, feeling as usual, rather resentful I couldn't take part in communion despite the fact I am a declared baptized Christian. I actually mumbled in my head "What's the big furry deal?".
I got hit with the answer. I felt the presence of Christ and the transubst...ah heck I can't spell it. Well you know what I'm talking about, I felt the whole miracle and mystery play out and I just KNEW everything I'd been taught and believed about the communion celebration (my church didn't even call it Eucharist) was incomplete to say the least. Even my Catholic but scientific minded husband can't quite bring himself to say the change that happens during Eucharist without hemming and hawing about it. He believes, I'm sure, but isn't comfortable declaring it to a non believer. I've got no trouble with it. I believe, so I'll declare it and take the criticisms that may come with it. I know what I experienced that day and it wasn't indigestion!
So if it's meant to be for me, it will happen. I'm always sincerely and humbly seeking and I have every faith that God will answer as we were promised He would. I do sometimes lean on my own understanding a bit much but I get steered back on the right path eventually. My angry prideful days and ways sometimes come back to me but I know now the pitfalls of giving in to them.
edit on 2-1-2012 by SheeplFlavoredAgain because:
sorry for the underline of the whole post. I have no idea how that happened or how to remove it!
Originally posted by SheeplFlavoredAgain
reply to post by colbe
...I similarly got a revelation about the Eucharist. I was sitting with my in-law's at Mass, feeling as usual, rather resentful I couldn't take part in communion despite the fact I am a declared baptized Christian. I actually mumbled in my head "What's the big furry deal?".
I got hit with the answer. I felt the presence of Christ and the transubst...ah heck I can't spell it. Well you know what I'm talking about, I felt the whole miracle and mystery play out and I just KNEW everything I'd been taught and believed about the communion celebration (my church didn't even call it Eucharist) was incomplete to say the least. Even my Catholic but scientific minded husband can't quite bring himself to say the change that happens during Eucharist without hemming and hawing about it. He believes, I'm sure, but isn't comfortable declaring it to a non believer. I've got no trouble with it. I believe, so I'll declare it and take the criticisms that may come with it. I know what I experienced that day and it wasn't indigestion!,,,
edit on 2-1-2012 by SheeplFlavoredAgain because: sorry for the underline of the whole post. I have no idea how that happened or how to remove it!
I would like to put your testimony in lights, oh my gosh, what a " signal grace" to receive. You were "touched",
I know of only one other person in a simiar way this happened to...
I keep on with putting up related threads just to get some discussion going and to show proof the Eucharist. The Eucharist will be denied, taken away by the anti-Christ. Remember this prophecy, begin to believe in the Real Presence if you don't now everyone.
You won't get waylaid if you do. Belief in the Eucharist and other misunderstandings, objections to the faith fall away. It's like a light goes off spiritually. I am going to look, in a not too old message from Heaven Jesus stated, you remain a baby Christian without Eucharist.
all I can say is "wow" SheeplFA, thank you!
colbe
Hi Colbe. I have to do a general reply here so we can break out of the underline formatting. I could not edit via iPad to remove it. I meant to say
to you that I'm glad you didn't take my previous post the wrong way. I realized after I wrote it it could be taken the wrong way as kind of
condescending like I'm the one doing you a favor letting you pray for me. Goodness, no I didn't mean it that way and thank you for not seeing it
that way in the least. Of course I'm grateful for any prayers and good wishes anyone would wish to send me regarding my spiritual growth and
development. I just meant that if I was among the fortunate people you were taking it upon yourself to pray for, I would not see it as you saying I
was coming up short as a person or a Christian and take offense. You might think I am erring in my ways, but I know you are not judging me because we
both know who the real judge is. I know the good intentions in your heart and that you sincerely see souls at peril and want all to be saved, and
have the guts to say so.
That is where I go back to the very original news story of this thread. Where people are gathered together in God's name, there should be this kind of willingness to acknowledge the purity and sincerity of good intentions for one another and build common ground from there. There are always going to be differences of opinion, but where there is love for our brethren, we can and should work through it, each of us seeking the truth from God and praying that our brethren find or retain the humility, sincerity and dedication to do the same.
Those monks are setting the example of what NOT to do. They can't even come together to agree how to take proper care of a building. How can they be properly administering to the care of souls? It's a sad disgrace.
Your talk of the prophecies intrigue me. I need to be paying more attention. Are you saying the Eucharist will be abolished in the Roman Catholic church itself by an anti Christ ascended to the papacy or up that high in the ranks? Or did I misunderstand you? It seems unthinkable something as sacred as the Eucharist would ever be removed from the Catholic church. Or were you talking about a movement in a Protestant sect sweeping the world in popularity? It pains me as a Protestant to say I could see that happening. I've gone online to check out possible churches I might have wanted to visit and found that some Protestant denominations do not even conduct baptisms. I grew up Baptist so that came as a shock to me. I always took it for granted all Christians get baptized at some point. Even my church only observed communion once a month. I was really surprised when I found out Catholics take communion at every mass if they wish. My father in law goes to mass daily now that he is retired.
That is where I go back to the very original news story of this thread. Where people are gathered together in God's name, there should be this kind of willingness to acknowledge the purity and sincerity of good intentions for one another and build common ground from there. There are always going to be differences of opinion, but where there is love for our brethren, we can and should work through it, each of us seeking the truth from God and praying that our brethren find or retain the humility, sincerity and dedication to do the same.
Those monks are setting the example of what NOT to do. They can't even come together to agree how to take proper care of a building. How can they be properly administering to the care of souls? It's a sad disgrace.
Your talk of the prophecies intrigue me. I need to be paying more attention. Are you saying the Eucharist will be abolished in the Roman Catholic church itself by an anti Christ ascended to the papacy or up that high in the ranks? Or did I misunderstand you? It seems unthinkable something as sacred as the Eucharist would ever be removed from the Catholic church. Or were you talking about a movement in a Protestant sect sweeping the world in popularity? It pains me as a Protestant to say I could see that happening. I've gone online to check out possible churches I might have wanted to visit and found that some Protestant denominations do not even conduct baptisms. I grew up Baptist so that came as a shock to me. I always took it for granted all Christians get baptized at some point. Even my church only observed communion once a month. I was really surprised when I found out Catholics take communion at every mass if they wish. My father in law goes to mass daily now that he is retired.
Darn, we are still trapped in underlines. How did that happen with a fresh post, not using quotes or the "reply to" feature?
Oh doggone it if I'm still stuck in underlines, so be it. I'll go ahead and make this post count, too, rather than just let it be a complaint.
I forgot to say as far as being "touched" by a revelation, as far as I can tell it's something that should happen to anybody, really. I get them a bit because I really take the process of asking very sincerely and believe fully with no doubt or hesitation I'll get an answer at some point. Sometimes I get an answer right away, and sometimes it's a long process I have to live through to work out a complete answer. But I always get one. I know they are from God because they are way more loving than anything I could come up with on my own and require faith because they sometimes run contrary to what I think is common sense or good old self preservation. I only find out later why God's answer is much better than my own. My conversion from a very staunch pro choice position, for example, was one of those where the answer knocked me out of my boots and I didn't like it but I accepted it. There is a lot more I wish I could say on that experience because it was pretty cool. But that's such a hot button topic I will just leave it as it is. I got my answer, let others get their answer and leave it at that.
Anyway, it's kind of sad you know of only one other person who got "touched" in such a way. It is something that really can and ought to happen to many people all the time. It's just following basic instructions from one of Jesus's many talks on the subject: humble yourself like a child, be curious like a child, and ask ask ask like children do. He was always mad at the Pharisees because they were acting like they already knew everything and wouldn't keep up the necessary dialogue with God and be mindful of their place as mere humans seeking knowledge from the Alpha and the Omega, Creator of everything!
Even though I was a bit flippant asking "What is the furry deal?" about communion, I was sincere in really wanting to know why I could not take communion with my existing belief system at that time.
And Colbe, you have done a very good job explaining to me why I really ought to seek communion and get myself sorted out so I can be in a position to partake of it. I really never thought of it as a pressing need before. I can see now how my relationship with Christ can be made more complete in Communion than outside of it. But one really has to feel that presence of Christ in the Eucharist to really appreciate it. I didn't even take communion that day and I was blown away by it. Now that I believe, I bet taking communion would be quite a different experience than I was used to.
edit on
2-1-2012 by SheeplFlavoredAgain because: (no reason given)
Oh doggone it if I'm still stuck in underlines, so be it. I'll go ahead and make this post count, too, rather than just let it be a complaint.
I forgot to say as far as being "touched" by a revelation, as far as I can tell it's something that should happen to anybody, really. I get them a bit because I really take the process of asking very sincerely and believe fully with no doubt or hesitation I'll get an answer at some point. Sometimes I get an answer right away, and sometimes it's a long process I have to live through to work out a complete answer. But I always get one. I know they are from God because they are way more loving than anything I could come up with on my own and require faith because they sometimes run contrary to what I think is common sense or good old self preservation. I only find out later why God's answer is much better than my own. My conversion from a very staunch pro choice position, for example, was one of those where the answer knocked me out of my boots and I didn't like it but I accepted it. There is a lot more I wish I could say on that experience because it was pretty cool. But that's such a hot button topic I will just leave it as it is. I got my answer, let others get their answer and leave it at that.
Anyway, it's kind of sad you know of only one other person who got "touched" in such a way. It is something that really can and ought to happen to many people all the time. It's just following basic instructions from one of Jesus's many talks on the subject: humble yourself like a child, be curious like a child, and ask ask ask like children do. He was always mad at the Pharisees because they were acting like they already knew everything and wouldn't keep up the necessary dialogue with God and be mindful of their place as mere humans seeking knowledge from the Alpha and the Omega, Creator of everything!
Even though I was a bit flippant asking "What is the furry deal?" about communion, I was sincere in really wanting to know why I could not take communion with my existing belief system at that time.
And Colbe, you have done a very good job explaining to me why I really ought to seek communion and get myself sorted out so I can be in a position to partake of it. I really never thought of it as a pressing need before. I can see now how my relationship with Christ can be made more complete in Communion than outside of it. But one really has to feel that presence of Christ in the Eucharist to really appreciate it. I didn't even take communion that day and I was blown away by it. Now that I believe, I bet taking communion would be quite a different experience than I was used to.
edit on 2-1-2012 by SheeplFlavoredAgain because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by SheeplFlavoredAgain
Hi Colbe.
...I know you are not judging me because we both know who the real judge is. I know the good intentions in your heart and that you sincerely see souls at peril and want all to be saved, and have the guts to say so.
...Your talk of the prophecies intrigue me. I need to be paying more attention. Are you saying the Eucharist will be abolished in the Roman Catholic church itself by an anti Christ ascended to the papacy or up that high in the ranks? Or did I misunderstand you? It seems unthinkable something as sacred as the Eucharist would ever be removed from the Catholic church.
You understand, I wish everybody I've gotten to know at ATS would too.
I am the biggest sinner, in great need of prayer, like you I don't take
offense, I am happy for any prayers said for me. Yes, I underlined your words, that is my intention at ATS.
I think about prophecy a lot and desire everyone to get ready. Things aren't going to stay the same. Have hope, we'll get through the Great
Tribulation to the glorious new time, the Era of Peace. Right now, to
prepare for the Great Warning, confessing with contrition your serious
sins to God on a regular basis and speaking to God every day, a prayer
life. If you reject the Eucharist now, don't anymore. Accept something supernatural, the Holy Eucharist is true. God wants everyone in the world to believe.
I found the older prophecy, Jesus states you remain a "baby Christian" if
you don't receive the Holy Eucharist. He was even more to the point in
John 6:53-55. And after, you read about the anti-Christ and the false
pope. The Mass will be changed, the Eucharist, there will be not Eucharist. The "continual sacrifice" taken away, prophesied in Daniel.
The loss of the Eucharist is the "abomination of desolation."
And important, rejecting the gift of the Great Warning, this is God's help.
These people won't be strong enough, they will follow the anti-Christ. Don't be one of them. Notice, lukewarm Catholics are included in the
three.
God Speaks Will You Listen
11/06/07
...During the warning, every soul will know that I exist and that I am the Son of God who is the only way to the Father. My son, souls will experience a miniature judgment and be given a chance to repent and change their wicked ways. This type of knowledge of soul has never occurred on a worldwide scale before in history. Most souls only receive this knowledge after death and are not given a second chance. This is what makes rejection of the warning such a final condemnation. You will see the truth Jesus Christ and then you will reject the truth. You truly will have no excuses. You will be committing the sin of Lucifer and his angels, “ I will not serve.” You will have experienced the truth. No doubts will henceforth remain in the minds of any of my people. Rejection of the warning will leave you with a total rejection of my mercy. This rejection will cause many to totally give their will to Satan and their evil desires. These souls will have taken the mark of the beast on their souls. Just as my faithful, receive the mark of the cross at baptism and confirmation. To repeat, the spiritual mark will be manifested by a physical sign.
This physical sign on your being will be required for survival in this world. Those who reject the spiritual mark will reject the physical mark and will be persecuted by the following groups. Lukewarm Catholics will reject my divine life received at baptism and commit the sin of blaspheming my body, blood, soul,and divinity. Hence lukewarm Catholics will persecute my faithful Catholics. After the warning, there will only be one church. All Protestant denominations will have no reason to exist. For all Protestants will see the truth in my Catholic Church. Those Protestants who in their pride reject my truth, will become apostate and persecute my true Catholics.Many Protestants will enter my church because of the warning. The ungodly will persecute my faithful remnant because the ungodly rejected my mercy. A fierce persecution will rage like a fire in certain parts of your world. Europe, North America,and Latin America will persecute my faithful severely.
My son, the largest number of converts will come from the pagan religions. Many Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and tribal peoples will accept my mercy and truth because of the warning. My church will experience a large amount of growth in those areas. I will need my faithful to teach these converts. Many miracles will take place at this time. Bilocation and other miracles assisted by my angels will occur. My faithful may be teaching in different areas of the world. After the warning, there will only be a short time given to mankind to repent. If no repentance is done, I will allow Satan and the antichrist...
continued...
I ran out of characters left. Continuing with the message to Cletus.
I said "baby Christians." Our Lord's words are "spiritual babies." You need the Eucharist to spiritually mature.
An antipope not a real pope will be a follower of the anti-Christ.
"Sanctifying grace", "divine life in your soul" means God's presence in you. You must be baptized already and free of mortal sin. That is why I keep posting about the need of repentance and confession of our serious (mortal) sin to God. Catholics have to go to Confession. And you will
not feel the emotional "pain" seeing CONFESSED sins in your life review
only UNCONFESSED sins during the Great Warning.
11/06/07
...After the warning, there will only be a short time given to mankind to repent. If no repentance is done, I will allow Satan and the antichrist to chastise a sinful generation. At this time, many faithful will be: called home, persecuted, martyred, and taken to my refuges. Only those who are not spiritual babies with my divine life residing in their souls will endure those days and enter my era of peace. My son, at baptism all my children receive sanctifying grace, but many do not progress beyond spiritual infancy. I will not lose any the Father has given to me. My spiritual babies will come home to be with me to prevent the loss of their souls. A soul who does not partake of my Eucharist remains a spiritual baby. Just as a human baby must eat solid food to grow to adulthood, so spiritually you must receive my graces through the sacraments to mature to spiritual adulthood. The body must be fed to grow.Likewise, the soul must be fed to grow and mature. Satan knows this truth. This is why he has deceived many of my people with false interpretations of my scriptures. Many teach the physical nation of Israel is the fulfillment of my scripture. Many teach the antichrist will resume the Jewish sacrifice in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem to constitute the abomination of desolation. This is a false teaching, not from God, but from human understanding. My son, in the book of Daniel, the persecution by the Jews under Antiochus can be considered a partial fulfillment of the abomination of desolation. But the complete fulfillment has not yet taken place. At my death, the veil in the temple was rent in two and the old sacrificial covenant was replaced by my new covenant. My sacrifice on the cross was the final sacrifice for my peoples’ sin. I am the fulfillment of the promise to Abraham. I am the seed of Abraham, the son of David, in whom all the nations of the earth are blessed. My nation of Israel is my church, not the modern nation of Israel. My people are now all those who become part of my church through sanctifying grace. The complete fulfillment of the prophecy from Daniel of the abomination of desolation will occur: when the continual sacrifice of the mass is abolished by the false prophet and the anti-christ. Acceptance of the protestant doctrine of the mass by an antipope will be the fulfillment of the prophecy. The temple of God is my Holy Roman Catholic Church. My faithful remnant will be persecuted worldwide with the Mass taking place underground. These conditions will be similar to the early persecutions by the Romans.
The Roman persecutions were a foreshadowing of the persecution and time of the antichrist. Remember all this will be allowed and take place according to the will of my Father in heaven. Scripture must and will be fulfilled.I am warning you again my son and any who will take heed to my warnings. He who has ears to hear let him hear. A final warning to those who read these words. Do not wait until the warning to prepare your soul. Prepare your soul now. You may meet your maker today. I do not promise you tomorrow. Receive my graces today through the sacraments instituted by myself and given to my church. You will need my divine life in your soul prior to the warning, to be my witness to the world. After the warning, many souls will need instruction. Many of these souls will be spiritual babies and will be taken home, after the warning. If you desire to enter my era of peace, you must be progressing through my merits and graces to spiritual adulthood, when the warning takes place. This is my final message from this messenger for my people. For I am the same yesterday,today, and forever. The time is short. Jesus Christ has spoken to you today. Take heed to my words. Amen
Pages 97-98, the last two pages of the message...
www.scribd.com...
I said "baby Christians." Our Lord's words are "spiritual babies." You need the Eucharist to spiritually mature.
An antipope not a real pope will be a follower of the anti-Christ.
"Sanctifying grace", "divine life in your soul" means God's presence in you. You must be baptized already and free of mortal sin. That is why I keep posting about the need of repentance and confession of our serious (mortal) sin to God. Catholics have to go to Confession. And you will
not feel the emotional "pain" seeing CONFESSED sins in your life review
only UNCONFESSED sins during the Great Warning.
11/06/07
...After the warning, there will only be a short time given to mankind to repent. If no repentance is done, I will allow Satan and the antichrist to chastise a sinful generation. At this time, many faithful will be: called home, persecuted, martyred, and taken to my refuges. Only those who are not spiritual babies with my divine life residing in their souls will endure those days and enter my era of peace. My son, at baptism all my children receive sanctifying grace, but many do not progress beyond spiritual infancy. I will not lose any the Father has given to me. My spiritual babies will come home to be with me to prevent the loss of their souls. A soul who does not partake of my Eucharist remains a spiritual baby. Just as a human baby must eat solid food to grow to adulthood, so spiritually you must receive my graces through the sacraments to mature to spiritual adulthood. The body must be fed to grow.Likewise, the soul must be fed to grow and mature. Satan knows this truth. This is why he has deceived many of my people with false interpretations of my scriptures. Many teach the physical nation of Israel is the fulfillment of my scripture. Many teach the antichrist will resume the Jewish sacrifice in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem to constitute the abomination of desolation. This is a false teaching, not from God, but from human understanding. My son, in the book of Daniel, the persecution by the Jews under Antiochus can be considered a partial fulfillment of the abomination of desolation. But the complete fulfillment has not yet taken place. At my death, the veil in the temple was rent in two and the old sacrificial covenant was replaced by my new covenant. My sacrifice on the cross was the final sacrifice for my peoples’ sin. I am the fulfillment of the promise to Abraham. I am the seed of Abraham, the son of David, in whom all the nations of the earth are blessed. My nation of Israel is my church, not the modern nation of Israel. My people are now all those who become part of my church through sanctifying grace. The complete fulfillment of the prophecy from Daniel of the abomination of desolation will occur: when the continual sacrifice of the mass is abolished by the false prophet and the anti-christ. Acceptance of the protestant doctrine of the mass by an antipope will be the fulfillment of the prophecy. The temple of God is my Holy Roman Catholic Church. My faithful remnant will be persecuted worldwide with the Mass taking place underground. These conditions will be similar to the early persecutions by the Romans.
The Roman persecutions were a foreshadowing of the persecution and time of the antichrist. Remember all this will be allowed and take place according to the will of my Father in heaven. Scripture must and will be fulfilled.I am warning you again my son and any who will take heed to my warnings. He who has ears to hear let him hear. A final warning to those who read these words. Do not wait until the warning to prepare your soul. Prepare your soul now. You may meet your maker today. I do not promise you tomorrow. Receive my graces today through the sacraments instituted by myself and given to my church. You will need my divine life in your soul prior to the warning, to be my witness to the world. After the warning, many souls will need instruction. Many of these souls will be spiritual babies and will be taken home, after the warning. If you desire to enter my era of peace, you must be progressing through my merits and graces to spiritual adulthood, when the warning takes place. This is my final message from this messenger for my people. For I am the same yesterday,today, and forever. The time is short. Jesus Christ has spoken to you today. Take heed to my words. Amen
Pages 97-98, the last two pages of the message...
www.scribd.com...
Beautiful, a short Protestant message from Heaven to Ras Robinson.
Pray, pray, pray.
_ + _ +
January 2, 2012.
The stage is set for perhaps a dramatic and climatic year in 2012. Wars will continue to be waged and increased. More surprise weapons of mass destruction will be revealed and deployed. I the Lord God am in all these things working My will and My pleasure over time and circumstances. Understand it is all supernatural. My ways are not your ways. I am doing a major thing before your eyes. Pay attention and pray with all your might. I am not an unresponsive graven image nor am I a created being. Rather, My nature is to respond to those who pray. Join Me in the heavenlies through prayer in waging this end time furious war for the souls of man. My purposes are not those of man. Mine are to do good and not to harm those I love. And I love you!
Psalm 2:2-6 (NASB)
"The kings of the earth take their stand And the rulers take counsel together Against the LORD and against His Anointed, saying, let us tear their fetters apart And cast away their cords from us! He who sits in the heavens laughs, the Lord scoffs at them. Then He will speak to them in His anger and terrify them in His fury, saying, but as for Me, I have installed My King Upon Zion, My holy mountain." Ras Robinson
Pray, pray, pray.
_ + _ +
January 2, 2012.
The stage is set for perhaps a dramatic and climatic year in 2012. Wars will continue to be waged and increased. More surprise weapons of mass destruction will be revealed and deployed. I the Lord God am in all these things working My will and My pleasure over time and circumstances. Understand it is all supernatural. My ways are not your ways. I am doing a major thing before your eyes. Pay attention and pray with all your might. I am not an unresponsive graven image nor am I a created being. Rather, My nature is to respond to those who pray. Join Me in the heavenlies through prayer in waging this end time furious war for the souls of man. My purposes are not those of man. Mine are to do good and not to harm those I love. And I love you!
Psalm 2:2-6 (NASB)
"The kings of the earth take their stand And the rulers take counsel together Against the LORD and against His Anointed, saying, let us tear their fetters apart And cast away their cords from us! He who sits in the heavens laughs, the Lord scoffs at them. Then He will speak to them in His anger and terrify them in His fury, saying, but as for Me, I have installed My King Upon Zion, My holy mountain." Ras Robinson
Hi Colbe I've decided to make my post into a private U2U because I was talking about the spiritual battle going on here and I had to discuss a bit
about my kid. Since I make it sort of a policy to not talk about my child in too much depth on these forums I moved the response off the forum. I hope
you don't mind checking your private messages. Thanks again for your thoughtful posts and generous concern for others' souls. I know it must make
your social life challenging but I hope it brings your spiritual life enrichment. You and WarmInIndy have both been very kind here to me and I
appreciate it.
Originally posted by SheeplFlavoredAgain
Hi Colbe I've decided to make my post into a private U2U because I was talking about the spiritual battle going on here and I had to discuss a bit about my kid. Since I make it sort of a policy to not talk about my child in too much depth on these forums I moved the response off the forum. I hope you don't mind checking your private messages. Thanks again for your thoughtful posts and generous concern for others' souls. I know it must make your social life challenging but I hope it brings your spiritual life enrichment. You and WarmInIndy have both been very kind here to me and I appreciate it.
SheeplFA,
Thank you for your kind words. A hug for you too WarmInIndy. Oh yes, the "spiritual battle." When you first fall in love with Christ, there are the beautiful signal graces sent to strengthen your faith. It must be to help you persevere because the attack of the evil one wears you down.
Don't you all think the "attack" lately has stepped up a notch?
Originally posted by SheeplFlavoredAgain
reply to post by colbe
For what it is worth, Colbe, I have no personal objection if you want to pray for me to convert to Catholicism. I won't be offended. My in-law's already do that. At first I was offended they didn't think my salvation was complete but then I realized they simply love me and want me to follow the path they believe is the best one for me. I figure if it is God's will, it will be done eventually. I don't know what precisely to do so I just keep praying for guidance and revelation. That is how I got switched over from being pro-choice for myself to being the opposite for myself. However I was made to understand my revelation was intended for me personally and how I am to make my choices, not anyone else's. (I'm a believer in encouraging people to take their questions to God and getting their answer directly, if they aren't persuaded one way or the other by the words of man). What that means is I went from being determined if my mid life pregnancy was going to endanger my life, I'd seek a termination, to giving the actual orders that if an emergency happened, the baby's life was to be put first.
I similarly got a revelation about the Eucharist. I was sitting with my in-law's at Mass, feeling as usual, rather resentful I couldn't take part in communion despite the fact I am a declared baptized Christian. I actually mumbled in my head "What's the big furry deal?". I got hit with the answer. I felt the presence of Christ and the transubst...ah heck I can't spell it. Well you know what I'm talking about, I felt the whole miracle and mystery play out and I just KNEW everything I'd been taught and believed about the communion celebration (my church didn't even call it Eucharist) was incomplete to say the least. Even my Catholic but scientific minded husband can't quite bring himself to say the change that happens during Eucharist without hemming and hawing about it. He believes, I'm sure, but isn't comfortable declaring it to a non believer. I've got no trouble with it. I believe, so I'll declare it and take the criticisms that may come with it. I know what I experienced that day and it wasn't indigestion!
So if it's meant to be for me, it will happen. I'm always sincerely and humbly seeking and I have every faith that God will answer as we were promised He would. I do sometimes lean on my own understanding a bit much but I get steered back on the right path eventually. My angry prideful days and ways sometimes come back to me but I know now the pitfalls of giving in to them.edit on 2-1-2012 by SheeplFlavoredAgain because: sorry for the underline of the whole post. I have no idea how that happened or how to remove it!
SheeplFI,
How are you? Hey, this was the headline article up at Spiritdaily.com yesterday.
It's a testimony of a pagan who converted to Catholicism. Taken
from a blog that posts conversions.
She went to Mass and it hit her in an instant! It made me think of
you and your belief in the Real Presence.
Here's her story:
whyimcatholic.com...
take care,
colbe
reply to post by colbe
Hi Colbe, I'll have to get back to you, I'm enthralled by all the stories on that link you posted. yes, what that lady described is very much like the revelation I received. I just knew Christ was present there and that no mere bread was being passed around.
I've been doing a lot of reading of other people's posts and gotten a lot of enlightenment. But I have found that there is an assumption on the part of some that if I run across parts of the Bible that confuse or upset or even anger me, that I'm not a good Christian or I'm not reading it right or not reading with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I had some questions get met with a stern rebuke. As a Catholic don't you find the opposite, that questions are encouraged and that you are also welcome to get help understanding the Bible? My husband told me the priests are used to all kinds of questions and don't think the less of you if you can't make heads or tails out of parts of the Bible on your own sometimes. I'm not the best writer or reader at my age, though I used to be a very good reader and writer when I was a student. But I can't say even at the top of my game that I always understood the Bible cover to cover. But I don't think that makes me a bad Christian, just a baby Christian, maybe.
I'm sorry I've been scarce and not answered your private message yet. It's been hectic around here lately and I've been rather run down.
Hi Colbe, I'll have to get back to you, I'm enthralled by all the stories on that link you posted. yes, what that lady described is very much like the revelation I received. I just knew Christ was present there and that no mere bread was being passed around.
I've been doing a lot of reading of other people's posts and gotten a lot of enlightenment. But I have found that there is an assumption on the part of some that if I run across parts of the Bible that confuse or upset or even anger me, that I'm not a good Christian or I'm not reading it right or not reading with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I had some questions get met with a stern rebuke. As a Catholic don't you find the opposite, that questions are encouraged and that you are also welcome to get help understanding the Bible? My husband told me the priests are used to all kinds of questions and don't think the less of you if you can't make heads or tails out of parts of the Bible on your own sometimes. I'm not the best writer or reader at my age, though I used to be a very good reader and writer when I was a student. But I can't say even at the top of my game that I always understood the Bible cover to cover. But I don't think that makes me a bad Christian, just a baby Christian, maybe.
I'm sorry I've been scarce and not answered your private message yet. It's been hectic around here lately and I've been rather run down.
Originally posted by SheeplFlavoredAgain
reply to post by colbe
Hi Colbe, I'll have to get back to you, I'm enthralled by all the stories on that link you posted. yes, what that lady described is very much like the revelation I received. I just knew Christ was present there and that no mere bread was being passed around.
I've been doing a lot of reading of other people's posts and gotten a lot of enlightenment. But I have found that there is an assumption on the part of some that if I run across parts of the Bible that confuse or upset or even anger me, that I'm not a good Christian or I'm not reading it right or not reading with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I had some questions get met with a stern rebuke. As a Catholic don't you find the opposite, that questions are encouraged and that you are also welcome to get help understanding the Bible? My husband told me the priests are used to all kinds of questions and don't think the less of you if you can't make heads or tails out of parts of the Bible on your own sometimes. I'm not the best writer or reader at my age, though I used to be a very good reader and writer when I was a student. But I can't say even at the top of my game that I always understood the Bible cover to cover. But I don't think that makes me a bad Christian, just a baby Christian, maybe.
I'm sorry I've been scarce and not answered your private message yet. It's been hectic around here lately and I've been rather run down.
Hi SheeplFA,
I am happy we talked by PM. I am positive when the Great Warning
happens, you will with great joy say "yes" to God. Amazing you were
touched at that Mass.
To everyone who doubts the Eucharist. Jesus' presence in the
Eucharist is the top, the pinnacle of Roman Catholicism. If you could
come to accept the Real Presence, absolutely, all your questions or
misgivings, disbelieve about the faith will fall away.
Frustrating, to be corrected by others about the meaning of Scripture.
This is why God gave the gift to interpret Scripture to the Church. Find her meaning of a verse and you will be right. I swear on the Bible (dramatic), not one verse in the Old Testament or New Testament conflicts with another when you believe the RCC interpretation. She compiled the Bible so God would also give her the authority to interpret it. Logic. Private interpretation of Scripture, it's fruit = error and division.
Read the footnotes of the Douay-Rheims Bible, they are a great help for
difficult verses and you see why the Church teaches what she does. This Bible is the translation of the first Bible, the Latin Vulgate. I can't read Latin but my dear mother could. www.drbo.org...
I told SheeplFlavoredAgain I would find the link to the videos of the
weekly program about people converting to the RCC, the EWTN program
called the Journey Home with Marcus Grodi.
I had some ironing to do, so I watched it on the Net Monday evening while I ironed. Serendipitous, concerning the Presidential candidates. The guest was a former RLDS believer, a break off from Mormonism. He
explains at the beginning very well, about the Mormon belief, it's history.
Here's the link. The nice thing, you can look at other things on the Internet while you listen to the Journey Home. You know already....
www.ewtn.com...
colbe
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