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US Debt versus Average American Net Worth

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posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 11:52 PM
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People around my development are all losing their houses, I sit in a 5 year old development with probably around 20% of the houses foreclosed on or are about to be.

The HOA meetings have gone from complaining about peoples dogs pooping on the lawn to worrying about peoples dogs they have abandoned roaming the streets at night and becoming dangerous from the people who had no place to put them...

IF people can barely afford their homes they certainly can't afford to pay more into taxes, at one point we had a 5 income household (multi-generations living in the house) down to only one of those people having full time employment, the rest have been laid off and on unemployment trying to find work.

They can try to get money from the people by raising taxes, but its just not there, and the higher tax brackets will fight tooth and nail before paying more.

They don't want to cut the size of the government, they want to just print more money, somethings gotta give.




posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 12:40 AM
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Originally posted by zroth

As more people learn that debt is a lie, built on a system that is a lie, then none of this will matter.

Money isn't based on anything so how can debt be an identifiable value?


Perception is reality. If everyone perceives it to be real, it is. If everyone thinks the system is going to crash, they're all going to run the banks, and our civilization as we know it is over.



posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by zroth
Wages do not equal debt. Currency for labor is a fine transaction because they have willingly negotiated that value proposition.


Hmm, funny, I don't pay my employee every single time they make a product or perform a task.

No, wages are debt. Just because it is short term does not negate the fact that it is debt.



How does debt make life more manageable?


Ever buy a house?



posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 03:37 PM
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reply to post by vasaga
 


Hmm, video does not explain why debt is bad.

Does a good job of explaining how people can make a mess out of debt by doing bad things, but not why debt is bad.



posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by peck420


Ever buy a house?


Several. Being house poor has not made life more manageable nor better.

Paying a bank for a fake loan, based in nothing, built on stolen land, by a group of people that claim ownership with no basis for their claim has never made things better.

Perception is not reality. Compliance is the only thing that keeps the self-appointed rulers in their perceived place of power.

Just because people continue to color in the lines does not void the world outside those lines.



posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by zroth
 


Lol,

You may claim that perception is not reality, and in one sense you are right.

Reality will remain reality, regardless of how you perceive it.

It constantly blows my mind how this system was just fine as long as everybody was 'winning'. As soon as people become losers, they quickly blame the game, not themselves.

Debt has been a staple of every known economic system man has ever used. From bartering goods to fiat money. Why is it only a problem now?

If you want to blame derivative banking, fine, it has its pros and cons.
If you want to blame fiat monetary systems, fine, they have their pros and cons.
If you want to blame debt, not so fine, our system (whether we barter goods or money) becomes unbearably complex when it is removed.

And by system I don't mean capitalism, I mean survival not based on nature's simple 'survival of the fittest' ideology.



posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by peck420


Why is it only a problem now?



We will have to agree to disagree on the topic.

At 18 year old (way back in the day) I made $3,000 less than the national poverty level and still owed the IRS almost $600 on my tax return. Since that time it has been clear to me how the scales work in this system.

Debt has always been wrong. There are many examples in literature, of every culture, relating the inequity resulting from debt systems. The heroes in the Bible, Robin Hood, Shaolin Monks, etc; are just a few examples.

America, specifically, was a strong nation before the fed reintroduced the debt money system.

Those with money defend it and those without are subject to its rule.



posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by zroth
We will have to agree to disagree on the topic.


Not necessarily. See the next quote.



America, specifically, was a strong nation before the fed reintroduced the debt money system.


Now we are getting somewhere.

Your problem is not with debt (I don't know how this was taught to you so i will refrain from major comments).

Your problem is with the fiat monetary system. That is the system that was heavily implemented and abused by the US Federal Reserve.

On this we agree. I long for a return to hard backed currency with finite derivative policies.

Something like every dollar must be backed by $.10 gold (or any other suitable commodity). Would keep use well within the derivative safe zone at only 10:1 ratio (current safe zone is actually much higher, but the government should not be interested in 'profiteering' from its own people).

That would almost guarantee minimum inflation, limit 'bubble' sizes, etc, etc.

I think we would agree on much after sorting out the terminology.

Edit to add:
A fiat monetary system is not bad by default, it is only bad (imho) due to the lopsidedness of the current systems as implemented. For a fiat monetary system to be successful it must be followed throughout the entire system. As it is currently, it is one sided. It is designed to syphon money from those who are not allowed to use a fiat system (the people) to those who can (the government).

This could be easily remedied by allowing any person to 'lend' or 'borrow' by the same rules based on their individual assets, but our governments are a little too greedy for that.
edit on 28-12-2011 by peck420 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by peck420
 

Well, if you want the whole story, watch this then:




posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 08:39 AM
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reply to post by vasaga
 


Is this going to be more bad news about 'debt', followed by videos about fiat monetary systems? Or derivatives?

I will watch when I get home (can't watch from work), but there seems to be a very serious scam going on in the US.

They keep trying to push 'debt' as bad, when most of the presentations don't even describe what debt actually is...I wonder why that is? Well, I don't actually wonder, it is brilliant, but I can't believe people are buying into it.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 09:19 AM
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Assets are not the problem.

16 trillion in debt / 300 million people = $53000 debt per person (apprx)

How do you pay that off with interest and new debts mounting up to another $140.00 per week per person ?

Mathematically impossible.

All citizens are taxpayers, kids and all.

The U.S. needs Income, not outsourcing.


edit on Dec-30-2011 by xuenchen because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


The US doesn't even need income.

The US needs to stop devaluing the US dollar. The US will never be able to pay off its debts if the value of the dollar is depreciating faster (also known as inflation btw) than the debt is being paid down.

If the dollar was fixed, the debt repayment would just be a matter of time.

This is why I am so confused about the 'bash debt' trend going on in the US, UK, Eurozone, etc. Debt is not, was not, and will not be the actual problem.

Okay, I'm not actually confused because I see the ramifications of 'debt reforms' and how much more power that will give the government over the people. I am confused on why people are buying it?



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by peck420
 


I see the point but,

How does that happen?

How do they stop devaluing the US dollar.

And then how does the debt go away.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 10:44 AM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


Switch to a finite backed dollar for starters.

Stop derivative dollar trading for another.

After that, lower taxes.

Yes! Lower taxes to improve cash flow, and by improving cash flow generate larger tax derived incomes.

(This lowering of the taxes should be on personal income tax only.)

Close loopholes on tax reduced items. Ie: No tax loopholes on capital gains as capital gains is a loophole in itself.

End government bailout programs.

The first thing people need to understand is that government tax revenues are largely determined by cash flow not cash wealth. The more the money moves, the more taxes they get off of said money.

Couple this with some fiscally responsible moves in regards to the military and the military-industrial complex and you will soon be deficit free.

Now the work starts. Now that the debt is no longer growing we can focus on getting rid of it.

Step one: Consolidate and expose all government debt loads. This will hurt politically, so I don't really expect it to happen.

Step two: Set a fixed payment plan. Similar to a mortgage. Most important part, ensure that the payments will not put the government back in a position of creating new debt. Basically smaller over a longer period is better than larger and risky payments.

Step three: Amend laws so that all social nets are non transferable. No more pulling funds from SS to supplement infrastructure, etc.

Step four: Introduce a law that states that all government budgets must be based on the previous fiscal years. No more 'projection', 'forecast', or 'approximated' bs. Keep it simple. This is the money we have, end.

Getting rid of debt is fairly simple if you are actually interested in removing debt. Right now, the politicos are interested in moving, not removing. They want to move the debt to the citizen in exchange for actual money...which they are keeping.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by ararisq
 


The top 300-500 wealthiest in the world have more money than exists in the world. The money they don't have, we owe to them.

The capitalist economy is just one big Monopoly game. In the end a few will have all the money and all the assets. If we want to continue the game, the "winners" will need to give back much of what they accumulated. If they don't, the rest will eventually quit and start a new game.

It is kind of a paradox. In order for them to keep their wealth, they will have to give most of it up.



posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by peck420
reply to post by vasaga
 


Is this going to be more bad news about 'debt', followed by videos about fiat monetary systems? Or derivatives?

I will watch when I get home (can't watch from work), but there seems to be a very serious scam going on in the US.

They keep trying to push 'debt' as bad, when most of the presentations don't even describe what debt actually is...I wonder why that is? Well, I don't actually wonder, it is brilliant, but I can't believe people are buying into it.
It's actually a cartoon which explains how the monetary system works.




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