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US Debt versus Average American Net Worth

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posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 05:15 PM
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Now that the debt limit is going to increase, again, at the request of the Debtor in Chief, again. I thought a refresher course on the word Trillion might be in order, again.

The current debt ceiling is $15,194,000,000,000 (counting places... yep 14 of them). We are expected to hit this as of Friday of this week. According to the US Debt Clock we are adding debt at a pace of 3,960,000,000 (10 places) per day.

Well obviously taxes just need to be increased right ? Well, how much net worth do we have to cover that debt?

The statistics I found show that nearly half of Americans have a net worth less than $20,000. The next 25% have a networth less than $75,000.

The next 15% a networth less than $225,000. The last 10% a net worth less than $1,500,000. I've no idea how much debt is taken in to that picture. It could be far less I suppose.

There are 113 million (or so) households in the United States.

Now lets go ahead and add a measly 1,500,000,000,000 to the debt since that's what we'll need to fund ourselves through the first half of 2012 for a total debt of 16,694,000,000,000 (yep, still 14 of them - for now).

That means we just need to capture the networth of those pesky billionaires. We just need to grab the assets of 16,694 billionaires. Lets see. Shucks. There are only 412 of them in the United States or 33% of the world total. Well, they've had their fun lets liquidate them. According to Forbes we just wiped out a cool $1.5 trillion from our debt. Only $15,194,000,000,000 left to go (AKA the debt we'll have on Friday).

Now for those greedy millionaires. We just need to wipe out the assets of 15,194,000 millionaires. Lets see. Hmm, a little short. We only have 3.1 million of them. Still they make up 11.6 trillion in assets. That leaves us just shy of $3,600,000,000,000.

We've totally balanced the system though. We've reduced all of our billionaires and millionaires to poverty. Well 15% of American households have $225,000. Lets just knock them off too. By George, I think we wiped out our debt. It just took all of the networth of 20,000,000 American households, or 17% of the population. That leaves the remaining of us intact.

Those with $75,000 will have 2.1 trillion in assets. Those with $20,000 will have 565 billion and those with $4000 will have 113 billion and our nation will be worth 2.7 trillion, down from its current state of 19.4 trillion.

In other words, our debt is 86% of every US dollar, stock option, unmortgaged home, paid off car, and diaper in the United States.

It is growing at a rate which would bankrupt 45,000,000 Americans every single year. I sort of forgot to mentiont he hidden bailout of an additional $16,000,000,000,000 by the Federal Reserve. Don't worry about that, its not real money. It just devalues what you have in networth. If, for some reason, we did care then every single American, and most of our children would have had their networth forfeited in the last 4 years. But, who wants to be a party pooper...?







edit on 12/27/2011 by ararisq because: (no reason given)

edit on 12/27/2011 by ararisq because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 05:19 PM
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Stuff it you are the worlds reserve currency. Just print $15 trillion dollars worth and pay off your debts.



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 05:20 PM
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I should add, after stealing the assets of all of those greedy rich people, the next year would completely bankrupt the rest of us. At least the government workers and contractors will be rich.



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 05:21 PM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 


then a loaf of bread will cost $15,000.00



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
Stuff it you are the worlds reserve currency. Just print $15 trillion dollars worth and pay off your debts.


We could, it wouldn't change anything. Its a ratio. We print $15,000,000,000,000 then instead of needing $1,500,000,000,000 to fund the government for 6 months we'd be talking about the $1,000,000,000,000,000 (16 places) dollar 2013 budget.



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 05:23 PM
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As more people learn that debt is a lie, built on a system that is a lie, then none of this will matter.

Money isn't based on anything so how can debt be an identifiable value?



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 05:23 PM
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I suppose the only other option is to just, 'remove' the necessity of repayment. Get your gear boys, we're going to war-- for zeros...



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by zroth

As more people learn that debt is a lie, built on a system that is a lie, then none of this will matter.

Money isn't based on anything so how can debt be an identifiable value?

You're absolutely right. This whole sad house of cards is 100% dependent on one thing above all else, and there it is. Belief and Perception of value. When that is gone, we drop into a world with all the worst parts of the Bible for at least a few years. I hope everyone is about set....the future is almost here by the looks of the headlines.

edit on 27-12-2011 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by ararisq
 


That's really cool how you went and did the math for it. Remember though, we're not ever going to pay off the debt, we can reduce it, but we'll never, ever pay it off. No one has any intention of paying it off. No one ever will, one president did and it lasted about two months with disasterous results.

The debt doesn't matter nearly as much as the deficit, once you learn that then you can look past the 'problem' of raising the debt ceiling.



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 05:39 PM
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As more people learn that debt is a lie, built on a system that is a lie, then none of this will matter.

Money isn't based on anything so how can debt be an identifiable value?


This statement is only easy to make when you owe, but aren't owed.

I have a question for the poster of this:

Should I forgive the debt of all those that have bought my products (real products, no fictional or derivative pieces) so that this statement can hold true?

If so, what should I pay my employees with? Or should they forgive the debt I owe them (commonly called a pay cheque)?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with debt. Debt allows us to make our lives easier and manageable.

The problem are the idiots that think that there will never be a time to pay down their debts, and those that believe that their debts should be passed on to another generation.

Like guns, the inanimate object (or function) is not the problem. People are.



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 05:43 PM
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You cant tax your way out of this. there needs to be deep cuts. but that wont happen so ill just sit around and wait for the crash.



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 05:44 PM
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One thing that could save the American economy. The invention of clean free energy, however the top lot won't profit from it so it won't happen. We need to be kept in our shackles somehow



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 05:53 PM
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There is another thing that could save the US economy and its future outlook, but it will never be chosen for sake of pride.

Ah well.



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 06:00 PM
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Duh.. Why dont we just wipe out.. Cough, excuse me, reduce the population by 86%.. Wouldnt that take away majority of debt.. Once we "reduce" them, we confiscate their "assets" and pay off the debt. You see people, the NWO is right. Just "reduce" the excess weight. Its like cutting the fat off your filet. Sounds good right? Obviously "reduce" means murder, but have you met 86% of the population? So who will miss em? Ok ok.. Its a stretch, so maybe just fold this idea up n place it in your pocket.. Just incase.



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 06:02 PM
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You are clearly following the right numerical path to enlightenment.

This video shocked me, the unshockable ATS long time reader.

Count St. Germaine may have foreseen this all. Maybe Hawking was

wrong and time traveling tourists have always been around us....(part 1 of 3!)


edit on 12/27/2011 by drphilxr because: wrong vid number argh

edit on 12/27/2011 by drphilxr because: spelling. please ATS include a spell checker. if FB can do it, you can too!!!



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by peck420
Should I forgive the debt of all those that have bought my products (real products, no fictional or derivative pieces) so that this statement can hold true?

If so, what should I pay my employees with? Or should they forgive the debt I owe them (commonly called a pay cheque)?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with debt. Debt allows us to make our lives easier and manageable.

I would tend to agree and say there is nothing wrong with debt, in it's own right. Things like a home, for instance, have always stood as a depository of wealth and debt for the majority of working citizens, world wide. Debt isn't the problem....not by itself.

It's the derivatives of deriv's of even more create bundles of JUNK which has us now throwing around numbers like 75 TRILLION dollars BofA is apparently getting support from the Fed to backstop. Thats a little confusing since all the gold ever mined on Planet Earth values out around 7....not 75...just little old 7 trillion dollars. I'm not sure all the precious metals within our PLANET can stand to cover what the numbers are actually at now if 75 trillion is a figure they weren't bothered about discussing publicly.


We're way beyond even discussing how to pay anything off now. It's like a Welfare mother with a $250,000 Judgement. Some things are so absurd, it just demands laughter. 16 Trillion in national debt on compounding interest rates.....as the U.S. dollar is in trouble vs our creditors.....is doom. Period.

No other way to put it and the math makes it pretty well beyond question. Oh yeah, Happy New Year.

edit on 27-12-2011 by Wrabbit2000 because: fixing quotes



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by peck420


As more people learn that debt is a lie, built on a system that is a lie, then none of this will matter.

Money isn't based on anything so how can debt be an identifiable value?


This statement is only easy to make when you owe, but aren't owed.

I have a question for the poster of this:

Should I forgive the debt of all those that have bought my products (real products, no fictional or derivative pieces) so that this statement can hold true?

If so, what should I pay my employees with? Or should they forgive the debt I owe them (commonly called a pay cheque)?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with debt. Debt allows us to make our lives easier and manageable.

The problem are the idiots that think that there will never be a time to pay down their debts, and those that believe that their debts should be passed on to another generation.

Like guns, the inanimate object (or function) is not the problem. People are.


Wages do not equal debt. Currency for labor is a fine transaction because they have willingly negotiated that value proposition.

How does debt make life more manageable?



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 08:40 PM
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The thing I think is more amusing about all these figures is that people still talk about them as if they matter. The case and point about the whole debt ceiling issue is that America is screwed from an economic stand point. Nothing we do right now will make the slightest bit of difference in re-obtaining a balanced budget. Eventually our debtors will call on our debt and we won't be able to pay it leaving us to declare international bankruptcy. The good thing is if you have a boat load of debt yourself, when hyperinflation hits you can pay off those credit cards and stay out of the banking system altogether.

It's going to be some hard times in the coming future but the only thing we can do now is get the things that are going to make a difference the most in our day to day lives and do our best to keep ourselves balanced in budget. Let the government figure out their own mess and fight any seizure of our land, rights, etc tooth and nail.

.02

HSR



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 09:29 PM
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I felt the need to add something to this; I really enjoy how the OP has framed the argument, to say that our national debt is unsustainable because we just don't 'earn' that much money. Which is a really, really great way to frame it.

Perhaps we could be a little more...accurate, national debt vs average American debt.
$15,194,000,000,000 vs. $54,000

That's not really easy to look at, so let's try GDP vs. average net worth
$14,580,000,000,000 vs. $102,000

Percentage-wise we get something like 104% vs 53%

This is an over-simplification, because the 'average' American household is just the average of those with lots of debt with no income and little debt with lots of income along with everything in between.

Also, as a final point, since the financial crisis people have been finding it harder to get loans...but also getting themselves out of debt. A few years ago average American debt was $94,000 compared to $54,000. It might help to say that over 85% of the wealth(net worth) is concentrated in just 2% of all households, which raises the average numbers but does nothing tangible as far as the rest of the nation.



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by peck420


As more people learn that debt is a lie, built on a system that is a lie, then none of this will matter.

Money isn't based on anything so how can debt be an identifiable value?


This statement is only easy to make when you owe, but aren't owed.

I have a question for the poster of this:

Should I forgive the debt of all those that have bought my products (real products, no fictional or derivative pieces) so that this statement can hold true?

If so, what should I pay my employees with? Or should they forgive the debt I owe them (commonly called a pay cheque)?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with debt. Debt allows us to make our lives easier and manageable.

The problem are the idiots that think that there will never be a time to pay down their debts, and those that believe that their debts should be passed on to another generation.

Like guns, the inanimate object (or function) is not the problem. People are.
Do you actually know where this debt comes from? Money is printed and loaned to the government with interest. The interest money does not exist and thus the debt can never be payed back.. And this chains all the way through society. The only way someone can pay of his/her debts is by having someone else lose everything of value.

To explain this in numbers. If the government needs a 1000 dollars, the banks create the 1000 dollars and loan it to the government. So there is a 1000 dollars in circulation. Let's say there is 1% interest on it per year. So after a year, the government owns 1010 dollars to the banks, but there is only 1000 dollars in circulation. How can the 10 dollars ever be payed back if it doesn't exist? Exactly, it can't. Well, there is one way.. Take it from another government.. You know what.. Screw my explanation, just watch this:


edit on 27-12-2011 by vasaga because: (no reason given)



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