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believers in jesus...please explain this..

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posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



Here is a link to your answer to my question about sin and salvation.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



Soooo, you didn't notice this statement from me in the posting you quoted:


Old from you: "You say that once a person says the magic words, then he is saved, then and there, and from that point, on, can sin all they want and can never be un-saved."

Response from me:


"That's a lie. I've repeatedly corrected you that if a person claims to be a Christian and there life doesn't change that's an indication that their faith is in vain. I have never said in these forums that a person can continue to live in sin. Complete rubbish."


So do you just have issues with reading comprehension?
edit on 28-12-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by DIDtm

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by k1k1to
 

Yup what about the other good guys in history (Ghandi=Hindu) etc, they go to hell too because they have not accepted Jesus.
I think there is something in the bible which says If people have not been given the chance of learning about Jesus they get a free pass



Thats is what I was told, when I asked where the little babies or small children went when a tragedy happened to them. Animals too.


I thought the most common christian belief about animals is they do not go to heaven.
They don't have a (soul, spirit....what ever), so they are not worthy.

Can one of you christians answer this for me?
Is it based on what version of christianity you believe in?


Dogs/animals et cetra have a spirit. It's called the "breath of life" in the Bible. As far as going to heaven, I dunno, but they have a spirit an the spirit is eternal. It has no mass therefore is unaffected by time.

(Thanks Einstein for that one.)



posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by australian2011


This may be hard for you to understand if you have no faith in our saviour, but there has been a few Christians whome Jesus has actually given visions of hell too. Here is one of Mary K Baxter if you click the link.

spiritlessons.com...


As a faith believer in Christ, I believe Mary K Baxter account in my spirit. But of course, when I say in the Holy Spirit this means nothing to a person who does not believe, but to those who do know the power of the Holy Spirit we know it leads us and we are given the gift of discernment through it,

Mary explains in her account that Christ actually went to hell to release many people before he came to earth, I believe this is because these people had no knowledge of him, but when he presented himself to them in hell the ones who believed would have been saved, If you read her account you will see many in hell are still ignorant to believe Christ is the true God. They would rather hold their idols than escape from hell.




I have actually read this entire book. It is one of the most disturbing books I've ever read. I think this woman has deep mental issues and I don't believe a single word of her story.


I won't go on to describe her story but I will say when I read it a few years ago, I didn't believe her. After watching the video of her describe her trip to hell, it's just more proof to me that her story is fictional and doesn't make one bit of sense.
Part 1


Here are the links to part 2 and 3.

Part 2

Part 3



posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Dogs/animals et cetra have a spirit. It's called the "breath of life" in the Bible. As far as going to heaven, I dunno, but they have a spirit an the spirit is eternal. It has no mass therefore is unaffected by time.

(Thanks Einstein for that one.)


Is there anyone else out there that can weigh in on this one??
I remember as a child, my kitty was hit by a car. Through my tears I asked if kitty would go to heaven, and was told.....no, sorry, animals do not go to heaven.

Was it just the Methodist religion that teaches that, or is it the majority of christian religions that teach that....or...is it simply that is the entire christian belief?



posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Dogs/animals et cetra have a spirit. It's called the "breath of life" in the Bible. As far as going to heaven, I dunno, but they have a spirit an the spirit is eternal. It has no mass therefore is unaffected by time.

(Thanks Einstein for that one.)


Is there anyone else out there that can weigh in on this one??
I remember as a child, my kitty was hit by a car. Through my tears I asked if kitty would go to heaven, and was told.....no, sorry, animals do not go to heaven.

Was it just the Methodist religion that teaches that, or is it the majority of christian religions that teach that....or...is it simply that is the entire christian belief?


I simply think the person who told you that was ignorant to Einstein's special relativity theory. (E = mc^2)


In this theory, (which has been confirmed over 15 times to 19 decimal paces), Einstein realized that space and time are physical properties. In order for anything to be affected by time, it must have matter. Spirits are not material, they have no matter in these 4 dimensions we live in. Therefore, a spirit, either human or animal, is not affected by time.



posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

"That's a lie. I've repeatedly corrected you that if a person claims to be a Christian and there life doesn't change that's an indication that their faith is in vain. I have never said in these forums that a person can continue to live in sin. Complete rubbish."

But what you have gone on to explain at times is that a person can for a period of time, of no predetermined length, demonstrating signs of true repentance and acceptance, then sin all they want and still be saved.
You are just making a qualification that it had to have been a true experience at one time in the past, when the basic concept is still the same.



posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 02:18 PM
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@ NOTurTypical

I would answer your questions more specifically, but you're stuck in the black and white. To you, there will be no right answer but your own, and why you will continue to sleep.

"Follow" is to "live" like Christ, not be Christ. Christ was "only" God's son, and so are you, if you were to live like Christ. I should also state for the record, I don't understand it at all, nor am I try to put myself above the rest. I have seen something, and where this stuff that I am saying is coming from, I really have no idea. I am more asleep than anyone probably here. That I am certain of. Don't let me come off like I know what I am talking about, because to be honest, I don't right now.

Nothing I can say will get you to understand it, because you can't hear it, so there is no sense in trying to explain it.

There is no grave, because Jesus never died. There are also no footprints, because he never resided here. There only is his "call" not a voice to those of us that are asleep.

Mohammad, Buddha, etc...doesn't have a grave either. Because I haven't seen it, so I can't prove it is true or not. All I have is information that others have "told" me, but that doesn't mean there is proof. The only thing I can prove is God...the only person I can prove that to, is myself.

You are "thinking" your way right past the message
We all do.


edit on 28-12-2011 by Awoken4Ever because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 02:40 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


First off yes Jews do/can have long hair.. I have long hair, and a beard. Jews are commanded NOT to round their head, because it is a form of shaming, same with the four corners of the beard, when it is shaved off other then the purpose of renewal/rebirth (see Nazirite vow).

Second Jews can be white, mexicans can be white, africans can be white, so please stop with that bit.. it gets no where.

True repentance comes from above, you see that you have gone down the wrong road, and head back to the beginning. In Hebrew the word is Teshuba, which means to turn around. Paul writes that he hates part of himself and wishes he could just cut/tear the good from bad. Saul when he opened his eyes and seen the Messiah, he repented, meaning his love for G-d and the Messiah was as deep as his hatred was.

Something I would like to throw out there is that everything that exists today, has a spirit. Because G-d breathed life into it. G-d lays Adam on a slab after making his body, and breathes life into him. It is said when G-d created the word He sang 10 words, and the earth came into being (by His breath).



posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

1. I never said Adam was "not made perfect". Here is what I actually said:

Adam was never perfect in beauty

So, Adam has never in scripture been described as being perfect "IN BEAUTY". There is someone else in the scripture described as being created perfect in beauty, and it wasn't Adam.

2. I never said Adam "was not wise". Here is what I actually said:

he was never full of wisdom either

So, I never said Adam wasn't wise, that's a false claim. I said Adam was never "perfect/full of wisdom."

3. I did say Adam was not created in the garden, he was created from the dust of the ground then afterward God placed Adam in the garden. God created Adam BEFORE He created the garden in Eden.
Here is the link to the post in question: www.abovetopsecret.com...
Here is the complete quote of your response, which was to me saying Ezekiel talking about the King of Tyre and the reference to the Garden of Eden was comparing him to Adam, and not Satan.

What?? Ezekiel was prophesying to the demonic powers behind the throne of Tyre. Adam was never perfect in beauty, he was never full of wisdom either. It's addressing Lucifer. Heck, Adam wasn't even created in the garden, he was placed in the garden by God after he was formed from the dust of the Earth to work and to keep the garden.
How do you know that Ezekiel was "prophesying to the demonic powers behind the throne of Tyre"?
So The Lord making Adam perfect does not include being perfect in beauty?
Is this how you think of The Lord? Making un-beautiful things? You think that is ok to think of The Lord in that way?
Do you think The Lord made Adam stupid? Why would The Lord have Adam name all the animals and why is Adam given dominion over all things?
The fact that the creation of Adam and the creation of the garden is in two sentences I don't think excludes Adam from having been created there. You seem to have some sort of special knowledge known only to you that Adam was not created in the garden.
Let me quote some verses from the passage in question

‘You were the sealer of perfection,
full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
You were in Eden, the garden of God.

It goes on but it seems to jump from one analogy to another, not being clear where it transitions to a different one, but it should be easy enough to figure at least this part is talking about Eden, since it starts out in what I just quoted, "'You were the sealer of perfection . . ." and my quote ends in a sentence with the word Eden in it.
What you are telling me is that it is obvious to you that this could not possibly be talking about Adam and it has to be talking about someone else, who you do not reveal.



posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

"That's a lie. I've repeatedly corrected you that if a person claims to be a Christian and there life doesn't change that's an indication that their faith is in vain. I have never said in these forums that a person can continue to live in sin. Complete rubbish."

But what you have gone on to explain at times is that a person can for a period of time, of no predetermined length, demonstrating signs of true repentance and acceptance, then sin all they want and still be saved.
You are just making a qualification that it had to have been a true experience at one time in the past, when the basic concept is still the same.


No I certainly have NOT said that. And furthermore, every time you've previously claimed I said such things I've told you to either stop lying about me and slandering me or provide the quotes of me saying the things you've claimed.

I'm still awaiting you to show these quotes of mine and it's been several months now.



posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by Awoken4Ever
 



"Follow" is to "live" like Christ, not be Christ. Christ was "only" God's son, and so are you,



Whoa now, Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. I'm a son of God, certainly not a begotten Son of God. There is only One who can claim that. And yes, it is relevant, how can we live for Christ and follow in His footsteps without being born again by the Holy Spirit???



posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by vogon42


Is there anyone else out there that can weigh in on this one??
I remember as a child, my kitty was hit by a car. Through my tears I asked if kitty would go to heaven, and was told.....no, sorry, animals do not go to heaven.

Was it just the Methodist religion that teaches that, or is it the majority of christian religions that teach that....or...is it simply that is the entire christian belief?


OK, can any of you jesus believers answer this in a yes/no fashion?
(really just trying to develop an understanding.....but ya know, that "god never answers" thing...starting to get that feeling on this post)



posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

I'm still awaiting you to show these quotes of mine . . .

The fact that you do not give an unequivocal counter explanation is proof enough that you do believe that, though you work around it a bit to avoid using the exact term "sin all you want".
edit on 28-12-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


I want to ask something from you. Do you even know where Eden is!? Do you know why Abraham was so excited and became so obsessed with his burial plot? Chances are you cannot tell me answers FROM THE BIBLE, to either of those questions. Once more, I see you always responding to someone with words that ring out like a muted bell. The Lament of Tyre, was an allegory of what happened. IT says, everything you put up, but also continues to say you where a cherub, and when I came to you I seen you adorned with gems... there was another race before humans, that lived or inhabited the earth. Notice in the beginning (a part you are unfamiliar with) that it says the world was chaos without form and void. And notice the account kind of repeats itself in the beginning, dont read it so fast and you might not overlook it.

Some people I guess dont see what it means, they always take these one liners and then be like whola I understand!! But why not look for the neat things that are HIDDEN in the text, instead of making these nonsense generalizations?



posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 02:54 PM
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and what about all the machines, 'where do all the calculators go?' lol had to get a red dwarf quote in there lol



posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by vogon42


Is there anyone else out there that can weigh in on this one??
I remember as a child, my kitty was hit by a car. Through my tears I asked if kitty would go to heaven, and was told.....no, sorry, animals do not go to heaven.

Was it just the Methodist religion that teaches that, or is it the majority of christian religions that teach that....or...is it simply that is the entire christian belief?


OK, can any of you jesus believers answer this in a yes/no fashion?
(really just trying to develop an understanding.....but ya know, that "god never answers" thing...starting to get that feeling on this post)


All things that have life continue on to the afterlife... Animals are just less developed spirits... Though there are some that say that animals are perfected spirits... which also make sence because they actually do not sin... they live by nature 100%

I've also read that some animals are blessed enough to live with humans... And thus will progress in their spiritual development faster then other animals will...

All life has the spirit of God within... And since the spirit does not die... They will also progress into the afterlife.

Hows that?




posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 

Dude you do the same damned things.

No.
If someone asks me a question, I answer it.



posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 02:57 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



The fact that the creation of Adam and the creation of the garden is in two sentences I don't think excludes Adam from having been created there. You seem to have some sort of special knowledge known only to you that Adam was not created in the garden.


My authority is scripture, the Word. In Genesis 2:7-8 the garden was planted by God after He created Adam from the dust of the Earth and breathed the breath of life in him. So how could God have created Adam in a garden He had yet to plant? God gave man two things two do, "work" and to "keep" (protect). After God created man He gave him work to do. To glorify Himself and provide enjoyment for Adam.



posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by HeavenWolf
 


So you are saying there were multiple Edens, then.



posted on Dec, 28 2011 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by HeavenWolf
 


So you are saying there were multiple Edens, then.


No I am not saying that at all. BUT I want you to answer the questions. I am not answering them for you.. but honestly dont you think it is odd for a jew or even lets say a Christian to be so ...preoccupied with where they where gonna be buried!? You probably dont think its odd, but most Jews and Christians ( ones I know) dont hang around graveyards and are preoccupied with sort of thought..



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