believers in jesus...please explain this..

reply to post by HeavenWolf

Yeah my point you worship Jesus AS G-d. (Which is idolatry, Which you are not supposed to put anyone or anything between you and G-d) Tell me where does he declare he is G-d? Or any of his disciples!? Jesus wouldn't even allow any of his disciples to even call him "good." I reject what you say with great resentment. Because you have corrupted something that is the essence of life, that is the word. And when you go spewing out these lies, and non-sense you inherently lead others to their doom. Your just another blind guide trying to lead blind out of blindness.

Jesus is the I Am, in other words, what YHWH was back in the Old Testament, which was this angel who appeared to Moses and said you once knew me as Elohim but now you will know me as I Am.
So how is worshiping the new name of God worse than worshiping the old new name of God, YHWH, as if that was God Himself? We look at Jesus and we see God in his character. We have no other way to know God.

reply to post by HeavenWolf


I agree look inward and the progression is upwards.
The kingdom of God is in each and everyone of us, even the atheist.

PLPL

Thomas:

"My Lord and my God."


Jesus doesn't rebuke Him, He tells Him that later on people who do not need to see and touch His wounds are blessed for coming to the same conclusion he did.

Regarding John 20:28, the question is raised concerning Thomas’ double usage of the definite article, most literally translated: “the l-rd of me and the g-d [THEOS] of me.” Did Thomas use the definite article twice to speak of two persons, first the son to whom he was directly speaking as “the lord of me” and then did he turn his attention to the Heavenly Father in heaven in saying “the G-d of me”? I don’t know. If Thomas meant his whole expression to refer to only one person, only one definite article would have been needed: “the L-rd and G-d of me”.

But if Thomas was referring to Jesus when he said “the THEOS of me”, was he thinking that Jesus was Y-hweh, the only Most High of the universe, standing there before him? If Thomas did indeed refer to Jesus as “the THEOS of me”, we find no such custom all through the New Testament of referring to Jesus as “my G-d”, nor “our G-d”. The Bible writers continuously distinguish the Heavenly Father as “G-d”, and Jesus as the Son of the G-d, the one made Lord and Christ by God. If such a doctrine as “Jesus is Yahweh” is so all-important as many today seem to assume, we should expect such to be clearly stated many times throughout the New Testament, but actually what we find is just the opposite. So if Thomas refers to Jesus as his G-d in John 20:28, we have an exception to the general rule, and should seek to determine in what sense Thomas might have thought of Jesus as his G-d in harmony with the general distinction that is made throughout the rest of the New Testament. Thus, in harmony with the Hebraic tradition of applying the same words that are translated as “G-d” to others as rulers, princes, mighty ones, etc., Thomas, if he was applying the term THEOS, to Jesus, would have thought of Jesus as his mighty ruler, his mighty prince, not in the sense of the only Most High, Y-hweh.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by HeavenWolf

 

Tell me where does he declare he is G-d? Or any of his disciples!?

Thomas:

"My Lord and my God."


Jesus doesn't rebuke Him, He tells Him that later on people who do not need to see and touch His wounds are blessed for coming to the same conclusion he did.

technically he didn't say he was God though...

and how do you explain when Jesus denies that he "said he was God"?

John 10: 31 -
36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
This is sounding like David and in the story, your god of the most high places, Moloch, takes the first born son.

Jesus was/is a mystic, a Jew, who read and taught Torah. A supreme Rebbe . . .

That's just a made-up part of your anti-christ religion.

edit on 27-12-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

My G-d Is Alpha and Omega, The first and the last..which spells out "Emet" (Aleph Mem Tav) Aleph being the first (HE IS THE BEGINNING) Mem (being the middle "also a letter to signify birth of earth") Tav the last. Emet means truth, My G-d is the truth. I do not worship any other but Him, and I am happy to have an excellent teacher and Savior and Messiah.

reply to post by HeavenWolf

Regarding John 20:28, the question is raised concerning Thomas’ double usage of the definite article, most literally translated: “the l-rd of me and the g-d [THEOS] of me.” Did Thomas use the definite article twice to speak of two persons, first the son to whom he was directly speaking as “the lord of me” and then did he turn his attention to the Heavenly Father in heaven in saying “the G-d of me”? I don’t know. If Thomas meant his whole expression to refer to only one person, only one definite article would have been needed: “the L-rd and G-d of me”.

That all sounds good until you consider the rest of the conversation with Jesus and Thomas. Christ doesn't rebuke Thomas, and then goes on to say that those of us who come to know Him as Lord and God without the help of physical proof are blessed. Jesus also tells the devil in the wilderness that only God is to be worshiped. Yet never rebukes anyone for worshiping Him.

Even angels rebuke men for worshiping them throughout the scriptures.

reply to post by HeavenWolf

.. tell me what word was around at the time of Christ!? Why is the Messiah constantly written about throughout the Torah, and the writings of the Prophets? Tell me where do you get your foundation, without Torah you would have no realization of what is good or evil.. please stop trying to rebuke me because you are making a fool of yourself. When the messiah comes again it will be a messianic era, so the people who are messianic or are jews but recognize Yeshuah (Jesus) as their Messiah are anti-christians!? Jesus is an anti-Christ!? Yeah, you better get in check with what is actually written, and not what some Catholic Methodist Presbyterian Priest or whatever ever other flavor there is..

I just got a book in the mail today I ordered from a used book dealer in Oregon called:
He That Cometh, The Messiah concept in the Old Testament and Later Judaism, by Sigmund Mulwinckel.
It's kind of an old book but it is the only real serious, critical, academic look into this topic, and I ordered it to see what exactly I can find out about what there is as far as real prophecy. I had been reading another book which gets into the subject, "Paperback Apocalypse: How the Christian Church Was Left Behind" Robert M. Price, which says that the so-called prophecies were none actual prophecies but just talking about different things that after the fact were taken as being prophecies.
Sounds like what you are asking is how can you have a Christ without a Torah to back him up. Easy because Jesus renounced the type of Davidic Messiahship that people were expecting so there is only a tenuous relationship going on other than Jesus being himself a Jew. Jesus did not "redeem Israel" as expected, but redeemed the world from Israel. Israel being the fear of God which comes from the Canaanite mythological god of death.
I believe we are in the Messianic era right now and Jesus is on the right hand of the throne of God in Heaven ruling over the events on Earth and giving salvation to those who die in this life on this planet. What happens after we die and are saved is a bit mysterious but this is what Jesus was talking about, the world to come, meaning an afterlife, not a world to come as in heaven comes to earth. We do have this in a way but it is a way of life of a spiritual nature that we live here, in this world to make it a better place than it would be otherwise.
I have news for you, the Gospels, as in the first four books of the New Testament, is the story of the Messiah who came and was known as the man, Jesus. The second coming of Jesus was his coming into power which happened after he ascended into heaven.

reply to post by jmdewey60


hmm you live in Oregon..interesting.. lol me too. Anyway go get a book called Our Father Abraham. Its a good book and a gauntlet, every Christian should have one. Basically the book takes you from Abraham to the Split from the synagogue. It covers a lot of ground the Messiah emphasized, and has been acclaimed by Both Christian Scholars and Jewish Scholars. Again something you definately should read. I'm not against you as a person but just ideals. But at the end of this day I must say, we are brothers in The Anointed. But what I tell you is true, look inside yourself, it will be the most beneficial. What we write on here no matter our stance will change nothing, and it will certainly not change anyone else, unless they themselves are ready to change, then and only then it is G-d willing..

Originally posted by k1k1to
according to many religions...mostly christianity


the way to avoid damnation and eternal punishment in hell....is to accept jesus christ as your lord and savior.

my question is? what about the mayans? the ancient egyptians? the incas? cavemen etc...what about them? how were they to accept jesus christ as their savior when he wasnt even born yet? are they to live in eternal hell for this?

how were the natives living in north america supposed to know jesus was born? why was he born in a certain part of the planet, and not the other? that doesnt seem fair..


i hate paradoxes

John 3

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

As any Christian will tell you, you must be born again. This is a transformation that allows a person to gain union with the soul and spirit. God is the spirit and we are the soul. We gain union by love and becoming one. Man and woman are the symbol. Sperm and egg. Moon and Sun. All unions start with love. When we love God and others, we find union.

Go back now and read the verses. The water is our baptism into the material reality. We are born into the 2nd womb of the earth and develop. If we find love for God, we have faith. God develops us in faith (Not Fact). We are then reborn into the spirit (True reality).

What happens to those who do not find union? We have the answer from Matthew. John the Baptist was baptizing in the Jordan. Anyone was welcome except the Pharisees and the Sadducees. In other words, the corrupt rulers who did not love anything but themselves. Pride is the issue that denies love. Christ is love. We put ourselves in the name (Character of love) of Christ as a reflection of our faith (Belief) in God.

Matthew 3

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

Some will be born again into the water to learn a different perspective as I see the mystery.

Need to know more? Symbols in the Bible such as baptism represent the root of what they really mean. The temple of Israel represents the temple where God's spirit resides (our bodies / Hearts / Minds). The temple implements were the tools that were used to cleanse the temple with water. Those tools are our eyes, ears, hands, heart, emotions, mind and so on. We use the water (Baptism in the material reality) to cleanse the temple. The veil over the temple Holy area is to keep us from seeing by fact. We must live by faith.

Gotta love God. He's amazing! Divine, long-suffering and just.

Listen to the Audo of the entire chapter.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

I do not see a single Bible verse you've presented above to back up your posts.

Glad to see you finally admitting the truth, that you believe made-up religion is just as good as religion based on the Bible.
All misler cult members please take note.

Hell isn't actually part of the bible .. thanks to a mistranslation of a word that actually means the equivalent of "Grave" ..

This priest apparently agrees with me that hell doesn't exist .. it's just something that was born from an accident in translation and has since been re-enforced as a form of control.. people like to believe in rewards... reward and punishment is a motivating factor..




I just searched briefly but this seems to be an informative link for anyone not wanting to do their own in depth research .. Honest Questions and Answers about Hell

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

I'm sure you will want to quote some Bible verses to back this up, right?

Wait, let me get this straight again. I need to provide biblical support for claiming that the verse mentioned is NOT talking about Adam, yet you don't feel the need to provide any Biblical support that the verse you addressed IS talking about Adam?

No, no, no!
You made a whole pile of ridiculous claims that you, as usual, just throw out with no backing whatsoever, just to sound good for your argument but it is all stuff you just make up, apparently on a whim and never get around to substantiating. It is the trend of what you do on this forum and it is tiring to deal with the multitude of such pure baloney you lay out on a daily basis.

reply to post by australian2011

As a faith believer in Christ, I believe Mary K Baxter account in my spirit.

To anyone who may be reading this forum, if you ever do shopping on Amazon, never do a Google search using this name because you will forever get this coming up with the tens of books by her, as recommendations whenever you log into Amazon.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I do not see a single Bible verse you've presented above to back up your posts.

Glad to see you finally admitting the truth, that you believe made-up religion is just as good as religion based on the Bible.

Wow, you're pulling out all the fallacies today. What you just said is called a "Straw man" argument. I didn't say ANY of what you claimed I said/believe/teach. You simply cannot make up something then shoot down the thing you yourself made up to begin with. That's a straw man argument. Well, obviously you can do it, you just did, but it's a style of argumentation that tells others that you're trying to argue from an inferior position.

All misler cult members please take note.

Poisoning the well and ad hominem fallacies. It's been a few months now, have you found anything yet that Dr. Missler actually said that you disagree with? And Dr. Missler is but one of many bible commentators that I happen to enjoy reading and listening to. He's not a pastor, he isn't a spiritual authority in my life. So I suppose that you have no teachers, theologians, commentators that you enjoy reading?

At any rate, I stand by my assertion that there is no Hell, it's a mistranslation ..=) I hope everyone checks the video and link I posted above despite the bickering noise in the thread ..

Good evening

Originally posted by jmdewey60

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

I'm sure you will want to quote some Bible verses to back this up, right?

Wait, let me get this straight again. I need to provide biblical support for claiming that the verse mentioned is NOT talking about Adam, yet you don't feel the need to provide any Biblical support that the verse you addressed IS talking about Adam?

No, no, no!
You made a whole pile of ridiculous claims that you, as usual, just throw out with no backing whatsoever, just to sound good for your argument but it is all stuff you just make up, apparently on a whim and never get around to substantiating. It is the trend of what you do on this forum and it is tiring to deal with the multitude of such pure baloney you lay out on a daily basis.

So you're telling me that if I go to your profile and look at your last 100 posts that a majority of them will have Biblical support included in them to go along with your opinions? You know that's a lie JM, you barely have anything Biblical to support your opinions and claims in this thread ALONE.

It's called "Special Pleading". that's when you demand or hold others to standards that you see yourself as being exempt to without providing reasoning for your exemption. Do you just simply not care that this is an illogical and irrational way to think?

Originally posted by DIDtm
reply to post by k1k1to

 

Here is another question that no one has been able to answer.

Where exactly did Noah build his ark? And how were there 2 of every types of animal within walking distance to the ark?

there werent ...

"The popular myth of an ark containing tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands, or millions of species is not supported by Genesis 7:2-3 which describes the herd as seven pairs (fourteen) of each clean animal (i.e. animals used for temple offerings and food), one pair of each unclean animal and bird and seven pairs of clean birds. How many kinds of clean animals were there? We don't have to guess. Deuteronomy 14:4-5 lists 10 species of clean animals, which implies 140 clean animals in Noah's barge. Assuming a minimum average of 12 square feet per animal (cramped but adequate), 1680 square feet of deck area would be needed. If Noah's workers loaded only the animals that happened to be in Noah's stockyard when the river started rising, the barge may have contained only a few dozen clean animals.
source


the rest must have just evolved

bible = senseless

reply to post by HeavenWolf

. . . would have thought of Jesus as his mighty ruler, his mighty prince . . .

Right, I was just quoting a verse in Psalms the other day on this forum, where the king is called by this same term, 'my Lord and my God'.

Originally posted by k1k1to
according to many religions...mostly christianity


the way to avoid damnation and eternal punishment in hell....is to accept jesus christ as your lord and savior.

my question is? what about the mayans? the ancient egyptians? the incas? cavemen etc...what about them? how were they to accept jesus christ as their savior when he wasnt even born yet? are they to live in eternal hell for this?

how were the natives living in north america supposed to know jesus was born? why was he born in a certain part of the planet, and not the other? that doesnt seem fair..


i hate paradoxes

They were in purgatory, which had two separate chambers, one for the righteous, and one for the wicked. There, they waited. When Jesus died on the Cross, he went to Heaven first, then to purgatory, to preach to the souls there. If they accepted him, they went to Heaven; if they rejected, they went to Hell.

Purgatory, to this day, has remained emptied. Catholics, however, still believe it's where souls go after you die, hence they do their Rosary thing.

Gee, that was easy. Next question?

reply to post by HeavenWolf

hmm you live in Oregon..interesting..

No, sorry, I forgot my avatar obscures the spot on my mini-profile that says I live in S.W. FL, you can see it if you drag your cursor over it to highlight it.
I just ordered a book from Oregon, the point being, if anyone looked to see where i live, is that I normally avoid buying books from Oregon because it takes so long to get to me, and can get books real fast from Chicago which is a straight shot down the highway to the west coast of Florida.
My father lives near Astoria and my brother went to college at Oregon State but I moved to where the weather suits my clothes, to borrow a line.
Our Father Abraham: Jewish Roots of the Christian Faith by Marvin R. Wilson
is that what you are talking about?