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GOP Champions Government Seizure of Americans Land....!

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posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 11:11 AM
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GOP Champions Government Seizure of Americans Land....By a Canadian Company!

Eminent Domain Fight Has a Canadian Twist


Randy Thompson, a cattle buyer in Nebraska, was informed that if he did not grant pipeline access to 80 of the 400 acres left to him by his mother along the Platte River, “Keystone will use eminent domain to acquire the easement.”

Sue Kelso and her large extended family in Oklahoma were sued in the local district court by TransCanada, the pipeline company, after she and her siblings refused to allow the pipeline to cross their pasture.

“Their land agent told us the very first day she met with us, you either take the money or they’re going to condemn the land,” Mrs. Kelso said. By its own count, the company currently has 34 eminent domain actions against landowners in Texas and an additional 22 in South Dakota.

In addition to enraging those along the proposed pipeline’s 1,700-mile path, the tactics have many people questioning whether a foreign company can pressure landowners without a permit from the State Department — the agency charged with determining whether the project is in the “national interest.”

A decision is expected by year’s end on the pipeline, which would carry crude oil from Alberta to American refineries.

www.nytimes.com...


Seriously...The GOP in Congress staged a sit-in to raise taxes on the middle class even as their Senate bretheren shouted at them...with the sticking poiint being a CANADIAN pipeline that is using emminent domain to SEIZE Americans land?

GOP...Higher taxes? Government Seizure of land?

How can anyone support this nonsense...most importantly, why would "Conservatives" support this?

Ahem...

Koch Brothers Positioned To Be Big Winners If Keystone XL Pipeline Is Approved
www.reuters.com...




posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 


Interested in everyones opinions...

It migth be noted before the "Jobs" thing comes up that both independant studies and the US State Department has determined that the Pipeline will create 5k to 6k jobs maximum and all of them temporary. The Steel will come from Canada or India. The 100k plus number on jobs originated from keystone itself and even they have significantly walked back those numbers when pressed.



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 11:22 AM
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Also...to bottom line it, Eminent Domain - Government Seizure of private land - can only be used when something is determined to be in "National Interest" by the State Department.

Thus the GOP demanding that the State Department immediately declare it was in the "National Interest" without completing a review or taxes would go up on the Middle Class.

As of October 56 Eminent Domainm lawsuits by Transcanada...it has to be higher now. Just insane.
edit on 27-12-2011 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 11:24 AM
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Don't forget folks, your precious savior Ron Paul is part of this same GOP.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 11:24 AM
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The Republicans in Congress were holding out on the pay roll taxes because they wanted to extend them for a year instead of two months. How can you run a country properly when you are talking about tax policy that lasts only two months? They were stubborn on that issue but it did make sense, whether or not that was their real reason for making that argument. Not just that but this is a bad situation for the country, we have already seen that since the payroll tax cut the amount of money going into Social Security has dropped (if I read it right, feel free to correct me).

I never came out in support of the Keystone Pipeline because I knew what would be a result of it. As I said to my mother, ‘so they want a pipeline from Canada to the Gulf, how many people’s lands are they going to seize to get it?’ Today I got my answer. Do I want more Americans to have jobs? Of course, and yes eminent domain can be enacted in this situation and perhaps it should, look at the railroads in the 19th century, but we should have tried to find the best way around this chaos.



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by Misoir
The Republicans in Congress were holding out on the pay roll taxes because they wanted to extend them for a year instead of two months.


Nope - that was rhetorical nonsense. Both the House Dems and GOP put forth bills that spanned a year. Neither made it - thus tthe 2 month compromise that Boehner encouraged and supported before flipping to the whims of the TP caucus, the dems wanted higher taxes on Millionaires and the GOP wanted Keystone XL and a whole slew of other things...defund EPA, Roll back requirements lessening mercury in drinking water, defund Consumer Protection Agency, defund implementation of Healthcare reform, drug test the unemployed etc...BUT they held out above everything else for the Keystone XL pipeline.



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 11:34 AM
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And now we'll see the GOP version of Big Brother and Government-mandated theft come to bear on these land owners and screw them out of their land - all in the name of corporate greed.


An East Texas landowner, Eleanor Fairchild, said that a TransCanada representative arrived at her house a few days before her husband died of Alzheimer’s in 2009. At first, she considered the $42,000 offer — later raised by $18,000 — for a 50-foot easement on her 425 acres. But she said that the more she learned about the pipeline, the less she wanted it on her land.

“It was a hard decision whether I wanted to fight and spend all this money even though I could lose the thing,” Ms. Fairchild said in a weary drawl. “But somebody needs to fight them. I decided it would be me.”

TransCanada’s condemnation suit against her is pending.


So how exactly does a foreign own company sue an American land owner to "condemn" their land?


Condemnation (from Wikipedia)

The term "condemnation" is used to describe the formal act of the exercise of the power of eminent domain to transfer title to the property from its private owner to the government. This use of the word should not be confused with its sense of a declaration that property is uninhabitable due to defects. Condemnation via eminent domain indicates the government is taking ownership of the property or some lesser interest in it, such as an easement. After the condemnation action is filed the amount of just compensation is determined. However, in some cases, the property owner challenges the action because the proposed taking is not for "public use", or the condemnor is not authorized to take the subject property, or has not followed the proper substantive or procedural steps as required by law.


For these land owners, it's like being forced to play Russian Roulette, who will win and who will be stuck with a pipeline leak contaminating their water and their land?

Another Day, Another Oil Pipeline Leak; Environmental Pollutants Lurk Long After They ‘Disappear’



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 11:51 AM
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I have always hated this. Underhanded tactics of aquisition, should be met with underhanded tactics of opposition. The "law" can be augmented and manipulated to the whim of the government/corporate parasites, leaving regular folks defenseless.

What else can be said.



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 11:51 AM
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Got to admit didt know who the koch brothers are but
for all us non americans on here a short and sweet vid.

They dont come across as the nice type.

Anyone trying to get rid of the minimum wage needs
to live on it for a month too understand its call minimum
for a reason.


edit on 27/12/2011 by skuly because: more spelling mistakes



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
And now we'll see the GOP version of Big Brother and Government-mandated theft come to bear on these land owners and screw them out of their land - all in the name of corporate greed.


An East Texas landowner, Eleanor Fairchild, said that a TransCanada representative arrived at her house a few days before her husband died of Alzheimer’s in 2009. At first, she considered the $42,000 offer — later raised by $18,000 — for a 50-foot easement on her 425 acres. But she said that the more she learned about the pipeline, the less she wanted it on her land.

“It was a hard decision whether I wanted to fight and spend all this money even though I could lose the thing,” Ms. Fairchild said in a weary drawl. “But somebody needs to fight them. I decided it would be me.”

TransCanada’s condemnation suit against her is pending.


So how exactly does a foreign own company sue an American land owner to "condemn" their land?


Condemnation (from Wikipedia)

The term "condemnation" is used to describe the formal act of the exercise of the power of eminent domain to transfer title to the property from its private owner to the government. This use of the word should not be confused with its sense of a declaration that property is uninhabitable due to defects. Condemnation via eminent domain indicates the government is taking ownership of the property or some lesser interest in it, such as an easement. After the condemnation action is filed the amount of just compensation is determined. However, in some cases, the property owner challenges the action because the proposed taking is not for "public use", or the condemnor is not authorized to take the subject property, or has not followed the proper substantive or procedural steps as required by law.


For these land owners, it's like being forced to play Russian Roulette, who will win and who will be stuck with a pipeline leak contaminating their water and their land?

Another Day, Another Oil Pipeline Leak; Environmental Pollutants Lurk Long After They ‘Disappear’


Does anyone honestly believe you can actually own land? In any country? LOL that's funny. Reality is you pay tax/rent on land to the government and if they want it back, they will take it with/without compensation. You can fight it, but they will make a law condemning your actions, if you fight too hard you might be labelled a terrorist.

Fact is government owns everything, deluding yourself into thinking a piece of paper grants you ownership of lands goes beyond naivety.



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 12:14 PM
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If the threat of land seizure doesn't get your blood boiling over the Keystone XL pipeline, or the corruption between Big Oil and government, then please look over this fact sheet on the Keystone project;

Key Facts on Keystone XL

Most of these facts came straight from the mouths of Big Oil itself, when they were trying their best to sell the project.

Gas prices: Keystone XL will increase gas prices for Americans—Especially Farmers
  • By draining Midwestern refineries of cheap Canadian crude into export-oriented refineries in the Gulf Coast, Keystone XL will increase the cost of gas for Americans.
  • TransCanada’ s 2008 Permit Application (LINK will open a PDF file) states “Existing markets for Canadian heavy crude, principally PADD II [U.S. Midwest], are currently oversupplied, resulting in price discounting for Canadian heavy crude oil. Access to the USGC [U.S. Gulf Coast] via the Keystone XL Pipeline is expected to strengthen Canadian crude oil pricing in [the Midwest] by removing this oversupply. This is expected to increase the price of heavy crude to the equivalent cost of imported crude. The resultant increase in the price of heavy crude is estimated to provide an increase in annual revenue to the Canadian producing industry in 2013 of US $2 billion to US $3.9 billion.”
  • Independent analysis of these figures found this would increase per-gallon prices by 20 cents/gallon in the Midwest.

Jobs: TransCanada’s jobs projections are vastly inflated.
Like most trickle-down myths, if only we just keep giving in to corporate demands and they'll produce the jobs - except in the past 30 years of this mythmaking, we give more and more and the result has been fewer and fewer jobs.

Safety: A rupture in the Keystone XL pipeline could cause a BP style oil spill in America’s heartland, over the source of fresh drinking water for 2 million people. NASA’s top climate scientist says that fully developing the tar sands in Canada would mean “essentially game over” for the climate.
Nothing like a ruptured pipeline spilling some heavy crude mixed with extraction chemicals to really turn that pristine pasture land into a toxic dump. Good luck raising cattle in that swill.

Sources linked:
“Exporting Energy Security: Keystone XL Exposed”, Oil Change International (PDF file)
“Tar Sands Oil Means High Gas Prices” Corporate Ethics International
“Pipeline Profiteering” National Wildlife Federation

 


The most salient point made above is that this pipeline is NOT being made to benefit the American consumer in any way. As TransCanada itself pointed out, there is a GLUT of heavy crude in the American Midwest - this pipeline is designed to get heavy crude into the PADDIII region (the gulf coast region) and drive prices not down - but UP.

About the Keystone XL (stopbigoilripoffs.com)



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo5

Seriously...The GOP in Congress staged a sit-in to raise taxes on the middle class even as their Senate bretheren shouted at them...with the sticking poiint being a CANADIAN pipeline that is using emminent domain to SEIZE Americans land?

GOP...Higher taxes? Government Seizure of land?

How can anyone support this nonsense...most importantly, why would "Conservatives" support this?


Now that's a damn good question! S&F for the post, I was just researching the pipeline controversy online and I came to the same conclusion.

Remember this little incident from not too long ago?

"Yellowstone River pipeline rupture sends chills all the way to Colorado" - The Denver Post www.denverpost.com...




"This accident demonstrates the very real need for diligence when it comes to how we develop and transport oil and gas in the West," said Kendall Van Dyk, a Montana state senator (D-Billings) who doubles as energy field coordinator for Montana Trout Unlimited. "Incidents like this one, where oil was spilled into one of the nation's most treasured rivers, are simply not acceptable."
Although Colorado has not endured a spill comparable with that of Montana in recent history, Perricone's Bull Moose Alliance released a report in May listing nearly 1,000 small spills amounting to more than 5.6 million gallons of oil, wastewater and contaminated drilling fluids in Garfield, Mesa and Rio Blanco counties over the past decade. Less than half of the spilled fluids during that period were recovered.


Why would conservatives support this project?, is a very good question indeed. Hell, why would anyone support it?


Who knows, maybe they just have a very short memory. Personally, I don't think the T.P./GOP establishment supports it because of the jobs it would create, that's just the sales pitch they're using to sell it to their simple minded supporters. They've had plenty of time to prove they want to create jobs by passing some jobs legislation, but have instead chosen to occupy their time by naming post offices and opposing every initiative the President supports, even if it means totally reversing their own previously held position on an issue. Go figure!

I really think it has more to do with BIG OIL MONEY and it's buying power within the United States Congress. We currently have a government that's "Of, By & For" the guy with the most money and that has to end if we ever expect to see a return of a government that is representative of it's "actual people." I would define "people" as entities who; are born of a "live birth," breathe air, eat and drink food & water, bleed when they're cut and have the ability to feel hurt, love & compassion. (When Texas executes a corporation, they can be people too.) Until then, we need to get the "Money Out Of Politics!"

I've gotten to the point where nothing they do surprises me anymore.



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 03:09 PM
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^ Why would conservatives support this? Because they do whatever their Corporate Overlords want them to do. We should've seen this coming when Kelo v New London was decided FOR New London! Land grabs to give to PRIVATE Corporations... get your gun and justice is served!

Derek



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 04:15 PM
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Randy Thompson, a cattle buyer in Nebraska, was informed that if he did not grant pipeline access to 80 of the 400 acres left to him by his mother along the Platte River, “Keystone will use eminent domain to acquire the easement.”


Here is an interview with Randy Thompson..one of the near 60 land owners who is facing having their land seized by Keystone via the US Gov.




edit on 27-12-2011 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2011 @ 06:45 PM
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Just a small bit of information, Keystone Phases 1 and 2 are finished. The pipelines run from Canada to Illinois, and Nebraska to Oklahoma.
Keystone on Wiki



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 08:03 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 


Do you even know what a condemnation suit is?

It is precisely to determine the value of the land, decided by a jury of your peers.

If the court and jury permit it, Thompson and the others will be paid "fair market value" for the use of the right-of-way, and any impairment of access or loss of value to the remainder.

Why do people post here without any idea of what they are talkimg about except their own biased prejudices?

jw.
edit on 24-2-2012 by jdub297 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2012 @ 08:46 PM
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I don't see, yet, why I should be so upset about this issue.

First the legal side of it.

Also...to bottom line it, Eminent Domain - Government Seizure of private land - can only be used when something is determined to be in "National Interest" by the State Department.
That's not actually the case, even local bodies of government can exercise eminent domain and the standard required is public interest, not national interest. Now the courts have defined public interest much more broadly than I like, but that's what we've got.

Another side seems to be economic. We know Canada is going to ship that oil to some coastal city. How is it economical for them to ship it to Vancouver, send it by boat to some other country, then put it on the world market where we go shopping for it in competition with the rest of the world? How is that better than putting it in a pipeline and having the user take it out?

And pollution? If we don't take this pipeline, then another one gets built through Canada to the coast, where it's loaded on ships, moved, unloaded, put back in pipelines and sent to users. Each step has risks and moving from one method of transport to another has risks.

What does our government say?

Pipelines are the safest and most cost-effective means to transport the extraordinary volumes of natural gas and hazardous liquid products that fuel our economy. To move the volume of even a modest pipeline, it would take a constant line of tanker trucks, about 750 per day, loading up and moving out every two minutes, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. The railroad-equivalent of this single pipeline would be a train of seventy-five 2,000-barrel tank rail cars everyday. These alternatives would require many times the people, clog the air with engine pollutants, be prohibitively expensive and -- with many more vehicles on roads and rails carrying hazardous materials -- unacceptably dangerous.

Relative to the volumes of products transported, pipelines are extremely safe when compared to other modes of energy transportation. Oil pipeline spills amount to about 1 gallon per million barrel-miles (Association of Oil Pipelines). One barrel, transported one mile, equals one barrel-mile, and there are 42 gallons in a barrel. In household terms, this is less than one teaspoon of oil spilled per thousand barrel-miles.


US Dep't of Transportation

So, I'm back where I started. Is this the best possible situation, perfect in every respect? Of course not, but I haven't heard of a better.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by charles1952
I don't see, yet, why I should be so upset about this issue.

First the legal side of it.

Also...to bottom line it, Eminent Domain - Government Seizure of private land - can only be used when something is determined to be in "National Interest" by the State Department.
That's not actually the case, even local bodies of government can exercise eminent domain and the standard required is public interest, not national interest. Now the courts have defined public interest much more broadly than I like, but that's what we've got.


I agree that current application of "eminent domain" statutes across this nation go far beyond the original intent of the law and that's something that needs to corrected. I've even read where some localities have, (or have attempted) to utilize "eminent domain" statutes to acquire property for Walmart, declaring that the economic activity brought about by having the Walmart in that location was in the public interest. Go figure! Sometimes, issues like this pipeline are the very things that bring these misuses of power to light and end up serving as the catalyst for the needed change.


Originally posted by charles1952
Another side seems to be economic. We know Canada is going to ship that oil to some coastal city. How is it economical for them to ship it to Vancouver, send it by boat to some other country, then put it on the world market where we go shopping for it in competition with the rest of the world? How is that better than putting it in a pipeline and having the user take it out?

And pollution? If we don't take this pipeline, then another one gets built through Canada to the coast, where it's loaded on ships, moved, unloaded, put back in pipelines and sent to users. Each step has risks and moving from one method of transport to another has risks.


I wouldn't be so sure about your assumption that Canada will just ship that oil to some other coastal city for export, as they have quite a lot of domestic opposition of their own to deal with. I would even venture to say that their own domestic opposition may be the reason they decided to go south.

www.tarsandsaction.org...

VANCOUVER, COAST SALISH TERRITORIES, BRITISH COLUMBIA, Dec 01, 2011 — First Nations, whose unceded territory encompasses the entire coastline of British Columbia, have formed a united front, banning all exports of tar sands crude oil through their territories, and effectively all of BC – whether by Enbridge in the north or Kinder-Morgan in the south.Several new First Nations signed the Save the Fraser Declaration in a Vancouver ceremony, expanding First Nations opposition in western Canada to more than 130 Nations. These First Nations form an unbroken wall of opposition from the U.S. border to the Arctic Ocean. This is the first time that First Nations have come together publicly to declare a ban on oil tankers and pipelines on both the north and south coasts.“North or south, it makes no difference. First Nations from every corner of BC are saying absolutely no tar sands pipelines or tankers in our territories,” said Chief Jackie Thomas of Saik’uz First Nation, a member of the Yinka Dene Alliance. “We have banned oil pipelines and tankers using our laws, and we will defend our decision using all the means at our disposal.”It is impossible for oil pipelines to go around opposed First Nations, and their consent to pipelines and tankers in their territories is required by international law. Today’s announcement – on the first anniversary of the Save the Fraser Declaration – comes in response to recent calls from the Harper government and oil executives to push through pipeline and tanker projects against the wishes of British Columbians and First Nations.


While I agree that, IF PROPERLY BUILT & MAINTAINED, pipelines are probably one of the safer methods of transporting oil. On the other hand, they are not by any means foolproof and when accidents do happen, they can cause some very significant damage especially if they are located in environmentally sensitive areas like running over or through an aquifer.

Here are some examples from pipeline spills in the U.S. & Canada;









And this is what happens when the oil companies are allowed to operate without regulation, left to answer only to their own conscience, which by the way is non-existent unless it involves money.



You want a better idea? How about clean, sustainable energy? Or how about looking into one of these ideas;

www.abovetopsecret.com...


edit on 25-2-2012 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 05:44 PM
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The mission of the CONservatives is nothing more than appeasing the corporate overlords, PERIOD.

Their actions and arguments CLEARLY confirm this to be the undeniable truth.

Its CRYSTAL CLEAR.

If you aint super-wealthy, you have NO BUSINESS supporting, defending, or voting in any CONservatives.

The super-wealthy folks (and shills) here fight tooth-and-nail for the CONservatives because they would HATE to have their gravy-train with biscuits to come to a halt. This gravy-train with biscuits comes at the expense of the already HUGELY OVERBURDENED, HARDEST WORKING, decent Americans -- the middle-class. They do NOT want that to end.

But it MUST end, and FAST.


edit on 25-2-2012 by HangTheTraitors because: COLOR!!



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 05:57 PM
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The Republicans want to do it for a pipeline and the Democrats do it all the time for wetlands, critters, and there pet projects.
Both parties do it so you are out of luck in trying to just blame the GOP.

i have seen where a county built a new road and the road cause a spring to backup water on a persons land and the democrat treehuggers then called the area where the water backed up a wetland and took away the property owners right to use the land (and water) without even paying for the land. at lest the pipeland people will pay for the land under eminent domain.
there are many cases where the democrats have taken land or the right to use the land without paying a cent for the property.



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