End the hate and corruption in NIgeria!, page 1

It was most horrific on what happened in Nigeria, when bombs went off in Churches killing men, women and children.

Many presumed it to be another religion inspired warfare, but it is not.

Nigeria is an oil rich nation. 80% of its gov revenue comes from oil, which is substantial and could have afford a far more better social expenditure than most western states. Unfortunately, greed, yet again, got in the way. The corruption is high and as such, many in Nigeria are left behind, espacially those in the north whom are predominently muslims.

Mired in poverty and ignored by society, they only seek for solace, but only founded radical Islamists whom will NEVER be able to solve their present problems, worse when they seek for murders of innocents instead of rational policies to progresss the people.

Islam is a peaceful religion. Persia was a barbaric landmass then in the 7th century with all kinds of vile happenings. Our common Creator then sent Prophet Muhammad to guide them towards civilisation. The Prophet was only a scholar but had to be a conqueror, and had to annihilate many, simply because those in the region were barbarians and would never accept civilisation, prefering the wild beastly nature of man which includes wanton murder of innocents.

But with the sword used in a necessary time, came education on how peaceful co-existance can be acheived. It's all mentioned in the Koran. There is a time for war, but too, a time for peace, more so when mankind are educated, had progress and evolved, such as today.

The killings had long ended with the Prophet's time, but sadly, when he left, the greedy nature of a few Persian leaders proved impossible to eradicate, and took leadership, something that is against the very grain of the Koran, for it teaches that there is nothing and no being in between for man to seek Allah. As in Christianity, the Kingdom of God lives in us, not one man, or a few man, but individually in us all.

The heresay of the muslim clergy continued till today, through the continued greed for power and the hideous attempt to keep our fellow human brothers and sisters of the muslim faith stupid by not allowing education to them to progress and evolve.

Brutal murders of innocents are NEVER because of religion. Our common Creator had NEVER allowed anyone to kill, more so innocents, more so in these times. It happened and was allowed in our mankind's past, because our ancestors were uncivilised and refused to progress. Those who did accept civilisation, saw generations bloomed. We are that generation.

We all worshipped and honour our common Creator, whom is known by many names and across time and space. Atheists too, are only children of our Creator, borned from those ancestors whom had accepted civilisation and adopted civilised ways, with yet only time to know Him on their free will, not at our time, but His.

Today's murders are indeed vile. BUT it needs not call for vengence.

Those who died are already in a far better place than Planet Earth, for they had died in the worship of our Creator. Scant comfort for some perhaps, espacially those whom had love and lost. But an eye for an eye will only leave the world blind.

Instead of vengence, let us all reach out to the muslims.

America, a far richer nation, had faced this evil before during 911, when power lusting individuals seek to make brother kill brother, but today, many realize the mistake of being played for fools. We learnt from our mistakes, comprehended more, and had progress and evolve beyond hate for our fellow humans. So too must Nigeria.

Majority of himans have no hate. Hate is only an emotion that is used by others who seek for glory and power to manipulate us all. Nigerian muslims and christians must not give in to hate, and be manipulated.

Make a stand instead, hand in hand, and demand the leaders to share wealth, and boot the radical Islamist clerics out of humanity. Arab spring has finally come to Africa, the last landmass to be saved, with Nigeria being the first there. The moment of destiny is now in Nigerians hands and free will.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

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I don't understand your post, and it frightens me. Perhaps I misunderstand through language or cultural differences.

It seems as though you are saying that Islam was started by someone who thought his religion commanded him to kill all who disagreed with him (they thought they didn't need civilizing). Then when he died, Islam was taken over by heretics and hasn't been right since.

Islam was a peaceful religion, except at the start when they had to kill people to get others to believe in it, others who had been "preferring the wild beastly nature of man . . ." Isn't that how Islam views the West now? Will Islam kill me if I refuse to be "civilized?"

You say Nigeria is not religion inspired warfare. Then why blow up churches, killing people at prayer? And why point out that it is radical "Islamists" who are behind it?

"Brutal murders of innocents are NEVER because of religion." Then why have suicide bombers?

"Today's murders are indeed vile. BUT it needs not call for vengence." So why does Islamic law call for the death of the murderer, even allowing the murderer to be killed by a member of the victim's family?

"Those who died are already in a far better place than Planet Earth, for they had died in the worship of our Creator. Scant comfort for some perhaps, espacially those whom had love and lost. But an eye for an eye will only leave the world blind." Plese forgive me, this makes me so angry that I cannot speak to it.

"Instead of vengence, let us all reach out to the muslims." Isn't that what Obama did in 2009 and many times since? With what result?

"Make a stand instead, hand in hand, and demand the leaders to share wealth, and boot the radical Islamist clerics out of humanity." So, you're calling on the US to attack Islamic clerics? Is that your idea of reaching out to the Muslims? Why don't the Muslims do it? It's their religion that the heritics have taken over.

"Arab spring has finally come to Africa, the last landmass to be saved, with Nigeria being the first there. The moment of destiny is now in Nigerians hands and free will." The same Arab Spring that came to Egypt and is giving us the Muslim Brotherhood? No thanks.

I must correct my opening statement. Your post frightens and and angers me.

reply to post by charles1952

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Thanks for your reply.

1. You and I did not live or experienced life then in Persia during the initial few centuries. Was it as modern as today's USA? I doubt so. Even history tells us it was a chaotic barbaric mess there then.

So is your fear of my post justified? Unless you wish for barbarism and consider killing a way of life.

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2. Islam had not been taken over by heretics as you presumed. My fault perhaps, for I take it that you may had been an educated person, but you seemed not. It's not a misunderstanding on our part, more likely your lack of comprehensionon the topic.

There are more whom believed in the Islam, in what the Koran teaches, than there are heretics. Majority of those heretics are the radical Islamists you witness daily from their carnage.

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3. Blowing up of churches or blowing up gov buildings is nothing more than an inspiration of terror induce the highest possible pain to achieve attention to fulfill an agenda. Nothing more, nothing less.

Does it mean EVERY muslim blew up churches? Certainly not. Only the inspirers of fear.

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4. An eye for eye leaves the whole world blind. If you are anger by it, then best you prepare to watch not only yourself, but those whom you love and care about be consume by further vegence till the last man left on Earth. Is this how you wish to appease your anger?

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5. Egyptian Muslims had started the ball rolling when they protected the Coptic Christians. If you had been blinded by your hatred of muslims, let it be known that MANY other muslims around the world had been standing up to radicalism and using better means to combat terrrorism.

You can never kill an idealogy with bullets. You can only kill it by a better ideology adopted by the masses. Too bad people like you and the moron bush never learn.

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6. Muslim Brotherhood? You say no thanks?. You have ABSOLULTELY no say in it, unless you are an Egyptian. It's not your right to do so. It's the Egyptian masses choice to make and to live with the consequences. However, if they don't measure up and alleviate their sufferings, at least those elected leaders will know what to expect.

I dont expect you to give up on your hatred nor fears with my words from the insignificant nobody me. All I ask of you is to further discuss with others, rationally and open up your own fears to others, listen, consider, then grow up, don't just grow old.

reply to post by charles1952

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"Those who died are already in a far better place than Planet Earth, for they had died in the worship of our Creator. Scant comfort for some perhaps, espacially those whom had love and lost. But an eye for an eye will only leave the world blind."

Plese forgive me, this makes me so angry that I cannot speak to it.

So the idea of not giving in to vengence makes you angry? You would have preferred violent retribution? Which in that case would have made you no more distinguishable from the perpetrators of the bombings.

reply to post by charles1952

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"Make a stand instead, hand in hand, and demand the leaders to share wealth, and boot the radical Islamist clerics out of humanity."

So, you're calling on the US to attack Islamic clerics? Is that your idea of reaching out to the Muslims? Why don't the Muslims do it? It's their religion that the heritics have taken over

Where did the OP mention that the United States should take offensive action?

reply to post by charles1952

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I must correct my opening statement. Your post frightens and and angers me.

That is quite clear.

What frightens you is Islam, and it's due to your own ignorance and misconceptions that you are so scared.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

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Dear SeekerofTruth,

Your response is kindly given and very welcome. Please allow me to try to discuss each of your points.

You and I did not live or experienced life then in Persia during the initial few centuries. Was it as modern as today's USA? I doubt so. Even history tells us it was a chaotic barbaric mess there then.
So is your fear of my post justified? Unless you wish for barbarism and consider killing a way of life.

I do not approve of barbarism and killing. I am afraid of any group of people, many or few, who take as their mission the civilzation of others by forcing them into Islam, or any other religion.

The reason I thought Islam had been taken over by heretics was your statement:

The heresay of the muslim clergy continued till today,

As you say,

Majority of those heretics are the radical Islamists you witness daily from their carnage.

If there are Islamic heretics insulting true Islam, may I not ask "What is Islam doing to stop them?"

I do not believe that every Muslim blew up anything. But I do believe that people who are Muslims are doing terrible things, and I do not see sufficient action from the Islamic world to avenge the insults they bring to Islam.

Concerning vengenance. Am I wrong in saying that a murder faces death under Islamic law?

Egyptian Muslims had started the ball rolling when they protected the Coptic Christians. If you had been blinded by your hatred of muslims, let it be known that MANY other muslims around the world had been standing up to radicalism and using better means to combat terrrorism.

Are the Copts safer, more secure than they were thirty years ago? If the Muslim world is standing up to radicalism and combatting terrorism, we are not informed of it. I would be very pleased to see it.

From the BBC: Egyptian Copts

Are the Copts in a better situation than before? And, can we emerge from this transitional period as a civil state for all Egyptians?

I believe the situation of Copts has worsened since the revolution.

This is because of the revival of political Islam and the eruption of violence inflicted upon them by the emerging Salafist Islamic groups coupled with a very worrying failure of the ruling regime to enforce the rule of law or to offer Copts protection.

I realize that I have no vote in the Egyptian elections, nor do I want to have anyone interfere with them. I do not believe that the Brotherhood is a peaceful and stabilizing force in Egypt, but again, I could be wrong.

Finally, there is one place where I must state that you have badly misunderstood me. There is no hatred in my heart. I do not say it, I do not feel it. I would be honored to discuss it further with you.

I would like to respond to Kram09 separately.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by Kram09

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"Those who died are already in a far better place than Planet Earth, for they had died in the worship of our Creator. Scant comfort for some perhaps, espacially those whom had love and lost. But an eye for an eye will only leave the world blind."

So the idea of not giving in to vengence makes you angry? You would have preferred violent retribution? Which in that case would have made you no more distinguishable from the perpetrators of the bombings.

I will do my best to answer, but I ask you in advance to try for understanding.

What is the punishment ordered for a kafir who destroys a mosque and kills the believers within. Do not lie, speak truth. Is it not death? Do you expect more mercy from unbelievers? You accuse people who call for the murderer's death of being as evil as bombers? Then, what is Islam?

And how do we comfort the mourning? They're in a better place? Is that what is said when a believer is killed? They're in a better place, but we'll make the killers pay a fine? Maybe we'll give them a few lashes, if we catch them. Is that what you say to the widows and orphans?

Please forgive me if my agitated heart drives my tongue to sharp words. But can you not hear the cries?

reply to post by Kram09

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"Make a stand instead, hand in hand, and demand the leaders to share wealth, and boot the radical Islamist clerics out of humanity."

So, you're calling on the US to attack Islamic clerics? Is that your idea of reaching out to the Muslims? Why don't the Muslims do it? It's their religion that the heritics have taken over.

"Where did the OP mention that the United States should take offensive action?"

As you may not have noticed I asked if the US should "boot the radical Islamic clerics out of humanity." I ask again, who is to do the job? The US? NATO? Will the Islamic countries unite to throw out Islamic clerics? Who?

reply to post by Kram09

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What frightens you is Islam, and it's due to your own ignorance and misconceptions that you are so scared.

A skillful teacher is a great blessing. Show me my ignorance and misconceptions so I may learn. Make it clear to me that no kafir will be treated differently from a believer, ever. Show me all the freedoms I will have.

A man who is afraid of nothing is a fool.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101 and Kram09

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Gentlemen,

If I have spoken errors, then should you not correct or at least point out the errors? If I have spoken truth, why not accept the truth publicly?

But refusing to defend your own words is not something I expected from you.

Do not hide, come back and show me my errors.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

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Dear SeekerofTruth101,

I am grateful for your return. You are quite correct in warning about anger. As has been said:

“Do not become angry, and you will be relieved.” And, “If one gets angry, let him keep silent.”

Your response fits well with my heart and tells me that we have had a disagreement over words and not over ideas. But before I show you our agreements, I must insist that you understand one thing clearly.

Hatred and vengence against innocents will get us nowhere to resolving issues.

I do not have and I have never had any hatred or desire for vengence against innocents. If you think I have, then you point out our largest misunderstanding.

Now to our many agreements.

I agree that it is a great wrong to kill innocents, and that the culprits should be found and made to pay a price. If possible, they should be captured. Although capturing them may prove difficult. I also agree that you are not asking that all wrong-doing be absolved.

I further agree that the bombings were not carried out by all Muslims, but only a few. I do not know how many Muslims cheered them in their hearts.

I agree with this entire paragraph:

Muslims too, have a responsibility, in the face of these carnages, to find out whom are those whom had profane the teachings of Islam and brought them shame through the use of their sacred religion, and to assist the authorities to apprehend them. Jihadism in a time of peace is against the teachings of Islam. Nigeria is NOT Persia or Mecca of the olden days where barbarism ruled. We are living in the 21st century, not the bad old 7th century.

May I mention three small areas where we might have a little disagreement? 1) I agree that it would be very useful to know the real reason behind evil acts, but I am not sure that it absolutely needs to be known in every case. 2) I do not believe that the leaders of Islam and of Islamic countries are doing enough to discourage this violence. I have heard that the families of suicide bombers are sometimes paid governmental awards. A trained surgeon can cure a problem with a few deft cuts because of his knowledge. If someone is called in who has not that knowledge you can expect a great deal of blood and the problem may not be cured. 3) I agree that my opinions grew from emotion, but I have not yet learned from anyone that those opinion were wrong.

I am quite heartened at the agreement found between us.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

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Do you know that american and western companies like Chevron and Shell have rendered Nigeria in a state of poverty.You are the reason to the world's problems,american.

reply to post by mkgandhas

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Are you responsible for the crimes of your father?

Shell and Chevron are corporations, not govs or representative of the people. Those corporations are made up of directors and shareholders of the world. You want to take responsibility for them too?

Who is more corrupt? The corrupt or the corrupted? Both are. But Nigeria is the host, and most certainly have the power of the people to make decisions. IF even given that elevated position in society, they chosed the path of corruption, who is to be blamed? You?

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

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yes the family is always accountable.Children have to pay for the sins of their fathers.Your controllers Rockefeller and Rothschild might escape with aliens ,but the world will teach you a very painful lesson.You are responsible for the crimes of the corporates,rothschilds and rockefellers.

Either overthrow them or you will pay for their mistakes and you will deserve it.

reply to post by mkgandhas

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As you are doubtless aware, I am not the brightest of the ATS posters, I am easily confused.

Concerning the oil companies, was Nigeria a free and prosperous country before oil drilling occurred? Did those companies force their way into Nigeria? How? Or were they welcomed by the government?

Americans are responsible for the Rothschild's sins? I don't know of a morality that teaches that. But if they are, who is responsible for the sins of some Muslims? All Islam? Don't true Muslims have a responsibility, if what you say is true, to overthrow all the heretical sects, Imams, and governments?

Perhaps you can see my confusion.

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