One gets what one deserves

Originally posted by DB340
reply to post by taccj9903

 

Interesting. I'm not single and I live about 1,200 miles away from my parents in Eastern Europe, not doing too badly. I also lived 5 years without them in Paris doing alright. Been here about 1 year now. I'm 27. Been out of home about 7 years in total and don't rely on anybody for money. I just create opportunities and reap rewards if they choose to come to me. Usually they do.

I appreciate my views will change and 'to be homeless' can happen to anybody - but I can't believe that it's the only thing possible in given circumstances. There are too many things to do in this world. Too many places to go. Too many people to meet... than to sit outside a shop.

And if I ever find myself in that situation, I will be on the road and using my talents to be noticed again. Doing nothing is not a solution in this massively rich world. (rich not in the sense of money).

You obviously have a different state of mind to them then.

Think about it, many homeless people have given up. They may have experienced many negative things in their lives that has given them a state of mind that is too negative to have hope.

Maybe instead of making this thread, you should have talked to the homeless man instead. Tell him how you feel, try to change his state of mind.

It's easy to say if you were them you would do this or that. But you cannot really know what you would do if you've lost all motivation in life. Too many places to go, too many things to do? This is the last thing on the minds of people who have lost all hope and motivation in life, they are not looking for solutions, they just want a little money to get drunk and forget about their problems. You could say it's a mental disorder that need to be fixed.

Of course with your state of mind you would not be homeless for long that's because you have hope.
We need to give them that hope, find something to change their motivation to something more than getting alcohol.

p.s I like some of what your trying to say, stay positive!

What I wanted was to see you response to the point that your logic can easily be used to justify genocide, or any crime against humanity. You yourself did it when you described workers in africa in poor conditions as being responsible for not rebelling 'enough'. It's just a convenient way for you to justify whatever you want to justify. That's all it is. We can take any event in history, good or bad, and justify it using your position.

So? You basically have an ideology that can justify any action as all you need to do is say that the victims are responsible via their "choices." Were the holocaust victims responsible for their genocide? Slaves responsible for their slavery? Native Americans responsible for their genocide? Americans responsible for 9/11 (for not acting to prevent their government interfering in the middle east)?

How do you respond to this?

reply to post by Yazman


So,

Yes. I suppose I am.

But do not forget that there are things in the hands of the individual or not in the hands of the individual. I have discussed this fact to death as I hope you have read.

The problem comes when grouping these individuals together. As a group, they can be considered 'one'. This 'one' group, this individualised cell of people, can be said to get what they deserve. This works in both positive ways and negative ways.

So, yes, in answer to your question. And I fail to see how you can find a counter-argument. This is beyond opinion. This is observable fact. Regimes have been overthrown when people had enough and managed to become one individual-based 'cell', made of many individuals to form one 'unit'. They got what they deserved in the form of freedom, thus success. History shows this many times over.

However, many did not group and fight. They thus got 'what they deserved' as a direct cause-effect response to their non-action.

I accept, however, that some cannot and they need help. That kind of goes without saying. But I feel that is a little beyond the scope of this thread. Maybe I should start a new hunting ground called "Citizens are their own worst enemy". Do you dare me? I might learn a thing or two about history, too, and be encouraged to study new subjects I didn't know existed.

However, as I always conclude, one (individual or group or individuals acting as 'one unit/cell', as of your response and this response of mine) will get what they sow. Sometimes it will be good and sometimes it will be bad. But 100% of the time, it will be what they deserve.

What you put it, you get out. Sometimes some help is nice, but ultimately, unless you have serious mental illness, your future is in your hands, as is that of the 'cell' of a grou pof individuals fighting for one same goal.

In the end, our interactions with each other is about how we feel about ourselves.

Did it make you feel good to give the man some money? Or do you think you would have felt better had you ignored him?

Life is what we make it.

I have known men who sleep on the street who are wise and happy, and doctors who live in mansions that are ignorant and miserable.

What you got from the interaction is a piece of how you feel about yourself.

That is it's only value.

reply to post by DB340

Sorry I left this thread because I got angry, now Iam really angry....

Dude you keep on going on about we reap what we sow, yes that works for farmers but in the real world it doesn't work like this, you just dont seem to understand that many many many people are having a # life thru no fault of their own.
A lot of people have no chance to sow anything or what they do sow fails.
People can be born into slavery and know no different way of life are they reaping what they sow?
If you get what you deserve in life I think you are very very lucky.
You cant just take out all the reasons why people are in a bad life and pick and choose who fall's into your idea, people do have mental health problems, people are born blind, people are born stupid with a selfish streak that says "Iam all right Jack" and then makes up an idea to make them feel better about the fact they are selfish,tight human beings.
I really hope one day you need help and then understand what you have been saying is unhuman and rubbish..
Rant over dont bother answering cos Iam not gonna read it grrr....

reply to post by DB340


Stopped reading at "everyone has the same choices in education."

Actually I didn't stop reading after that. But as a professional in the education field in the US, you're wrong. Very, very wrong.

It looks as if you are describing what is called the "just world hypothesis", it's why people blame victims.

The "just world hypothesis" is the belief that actions have appropriate and predictable outcomes. This is not always the case and we do not live in a just world.

If we did live in a just world, for example only smokers would get lung cancer, well then why did my mother in law, who never smoked a day in her life get lung cancer and die? She lived a healthy life, where did her lung cancer come from? We do NOT live in a just world.

Yes, we all have choices in life, this does not mean we see the future and KNOW for 100% what the consequences of the choices we make will be, nor does it mean that the choices we make have anything to do with the consequences of those choices.

google "just world hypothesis", you will find a lot of very good information to help you understand the thoughts of the OP.

Generally it is the young who still believe in the just world hypothesis, but many people still live with this belief even as they get more life experience, if only because it helps them feel safer in the world... ie: I would never choose to do ______ so I would never have _____ happen to me. When the truth is whatever your ___ is just might happen no matter what choices you make.

For quick reference.... en.wikipedia.org...

Harm None
Peace

reply to post by DB340


Most people are poor because someone took advantage of them. It's just a statistical truth. You did the right thing. Good man, and God bless.

Don't give up on helping people man. You think you got it all figured out and I don't blame you because its quite normal for a young man who is successful. One day you will realize that you know nothing and I'm not trying to make this a personal attack I am just speaking for the human population as a whole. It is the wisdom you gain from realizing you know nothing that will make or break you. I am still struggling with it and trying to temper my ego and figure out how I can help people. You were off to a good start on trying to help your fellow human being, I just don't want to see that good streak end.

reply to post by DB340


It's your choice not to help, but you will be judged as you judge others. Empathy is a virtue.

reply to post by Jiggyfly


Unfortunately, you are very right. My kid is in public school in the US. It's a daily fight to keep any academic standard at all due to huge budget cuts in CA.

One gets what one deserves,

Honestly ... in this life ... I've seen a lot of just the opposite. Since we are in the 'metaphysics' forum I'll add - perhaps in the NEXT life people get what they deserve but certainly not in this one. Seems a lot of liars, thieves, murderers, corrupt politicians, and adulterers live the high life and a lot of nice people I know have it rough ... illness, money issues, etc.

In this world, good people are usually poor.

I must encourage people to read my posts on the other pages to save your time writing things which are perhaps a little off-centre.

Thank you.

reply to post by DB340

Many people don't choose to live in poverty. Sometimes they are forced into the terrible lifestyle by mental/ physical illness, or their parents don't support them. Many times lack of parents cal lead to terrible examples and the person ends up homless. Very few people have the ability or the willpower to get themselves to the top without any help.

reply to post by DB340


As someone who was dropped by happenstance into homelessness in early 2002, I can say from direct experience, both from my situation and from the situations of the then newly-found friends in the homeless community, free church meals and local homeless shelter - yes, you did the right thing.

Not everyone you see on the streets is there by choice or as the result of poor decision-making. Many are truly victims. Victims of abuse, false criminal charges whereby their life was pulled from underneath them in one fell swoop. Or victims of mental illness.

In this wonderful society where everything is driven by profit, I have seen the same people run through the homeless shelter mill, not getting the help, care or comfort they truly deserve, simply because it makes people money to have these poor souls run through the system over and over. Some lucky ones, like myself, make it out.

Not a day goes by when I don't feel some amount of guilt for having, finally, a decent situation. And to this day many of the people I first met while homeless still wander around downtown Ann Arbor, unhelped, and used by the system most people believe was put into place to help, but doesn't.

reply to post by DB340

So, in conclusion, I think that I did the wrong thing.

You didn't do much of anything really, except contribute to the idea that money is the normal way that a society should trade.

I would humbly estimate that the trappings (and control) of money has contributed to more global suffering than any other factor, single or combined, in the history of mankind.

reply to post by DB340


Nice story! Thank you for sharing.

Personnaly, I think you made the right choice. First, he obviously is in trouble. Second, how can you decide what he deserves?

We all go through bad moments in life. In many cases, dealing with them alone is tough and the slightess positive human contact can have a tremendous impact. Indeed, some of us are lucky enough to have created or are the benefactors of strong family/social ties; I like to call it the circle of love. This circle of love can give a sense to all the misery and keep a positive eye on things when your mind starts wandering over to the darkside. We feed off each others good advice, helping hand, love to grow and learn. According to reasearch, your chances of recovering from a physical or a mental illness is greatly apreciated when you have somebody (even one person) to support and love you.

Also, as we type thousands of people on the planet are victim to circumstances and deserve help and they don't receive it. I don't need to give any examples because the world is filled to the brim with them if one opens his mind and heart.

So my point is:

Walk at least a mile in the shoes of an individual before you pass any judgement on him.

You are full of power and you don't know it. Your actions might make his mind wander back into the light... Or not. Both outcomes are potentials. You must choose the one you root for. This is what faith is all about.

I have faith that our good ACTIONS will be contagious. I believe that love breads love. It seems that you believed the same...for a moment. You seem to have changed your mind. Why?

Have a happy new year!

Charity in cases like this is always hirt-or-niss...

As an OTR truck driver for many years I can site quite a few examples.

One homeless beggar has been working a corner in New Mexico for several years. He
is typical, a sign that says, veteran, work for food, etc. And he has been there, like it is
a job for SEVERAL years. Make your own judgement.

Once I was pleaded with while fueling for change for something to eat, and gas money
because (whatever) it was a convincing story told to a guy (me) who prides himself on his
ability read people. After fueling I parked and went in to the truckstop to shower.
The guy was playing video games and drinking a milkshake.

Another time I a gave a black youth a ride nearly across the country (two days-his car broke down)
it was near Christmas. I went (a little out of my way) and took him to his house. His family invited me
in MADE eat a big home cooked meal (it was delicious) and later that night took me to
a pool hall and tried to get me laid, LOL. (I was the only white guy in the place-this was deep south)
I hope that doesn't sound racist, I'm not, never will be, don't even understand it--but skin color is
still relevant for ignorant folks I guess.

Point is I have given of myself and of my family's resources and witnessed my effort being wasted. I have helped
out and seen what a huge impact it had on some truly hungry. You just never know...

I will always side with the choice to help and be charitable...to each his own

reply to post by DB340


It's annoying giving to the poor, and it's annoying not giving to the poor. By giving, you're taking his suffering upon yourself, and making his suffering worse through pity. It's nihilistic to perpetuate suffering, and both you and him would be better off in the long run if you didn't give him your change.

You might feel good by giving someone money, but it's pure vanity. There is no merit in vanity.

Thanks for hearing my opinion.