One gets what one deserves

Originally posted by DB340
reply to post by starchild10

 

Try reading all my responses before making stupid comments. It does nothing to the thread.

you make a thread saying "you get what you deserve" and use a homeless person as your example and expect that no one will think you are a tool? heck I wanted to say what starchild said because that's how you come across.
Your OP said I helped someone then decided it didn't help anyone and its their own fault, I just hope you never need anyone's help ever.....

reply to post by DB340


I work with young people from alot of different social and economical backgrounds. Don't be so fast to judge as you don't know what might be around the corner for you. Also most homeless people are homeless due to mental health reasons.

reply to post by DB340


Ok... You are trolling your own thread... You asked for opinion then attack people for giving theirs. You obviously already made up your mind that you are right, you have all the answers, and you're damn close to mastering the Universe. So why even post? Looking for an ego stroke? If you honestly feel like your life is "rewarding" in the way you described then you are a good little conformist. 100 gold stars for you.

Good grief.

reply to post by DB340


We all reflect our choices. We reap what we sow. There is a simple way to see the result from the action. If a person takes reward, a debt is created. You used your credit card to purchase a TV and caused a debt. You will pay that debt by suffering work on the other end. Suffering work leads to true reward, while taking reward leads to debt. If we smoke, we get cancer. This is taking a reward. If we purchase a car, we take a reward and suffer work to pay. Suffer the work for a college degree and get a better job.

The central truth in this is giving work (Suffering) and taking reward from the work. There is a balance. Some rewards require a higher debt that cannot be paid by us. If we take the TV by stealing, the debt is for the store and for us when we get caught. Some rewards are not worth taking. Smoking takes health. Drinking and drug use takes health. Lawlessness takes reputation. Suffering is only unjust when a person suffers from what another person takes from them. When we take from ourselves, the debt is earned. If homelessness is the result, then we either pay the debt or hope someone comes along and pays it for us. Patterns of behavior need to change for real reward to follow.

For instance, if a baby is in a car seat while the parents smoke, the baby suffers the debt of second hand smoke. This was a debt created by the actions of others. Equally, when I work at a job, my kids reap the rewards of my labor. The point of life is suffering in the correct direction. When we suffer work for others, regardless of the circumstance, others benefit. This is reward that is a gift. You gave a gift and you get the reward as well as the homeless man. This is always a good thing to do.

The homeless man and beggar are reflecting the balance of the scales of justice. They may very well be suffering injustice. We are not the judge, although it is normally obvious. What we realize in all of this is a simple fact: We are all beggars. None of us are a measure of our self alone. There is an endless chain of suffering the debt of humanity. God gives unmerited favor to mankind in the form of grace. Despite the fact that the homeless man may not have deserved your grace, we realize that none of us deserves the bounty we receive from God. To return this bread of shame, we give to others, requiring nothing in return. To want something back is duplicity. The truth is, we have already received true reward with life.

If I serve God and others for reward, what am I really after? If I serve God and others to avoid judgment, what am I really preserving? Am I preserving others, or myself? True acts of random kindness are those we give unconditionally, apart from judgment. This does not imply that we give apart from intent. Intention is what we desire for good. Intent is what we do by design.

Will I give a man money, only to see him spend it on wine? Will I give a man a job or a home, only to see him abuse the trust as before? Do I trust my own safety, giving a beggar a ride in my car, when he has already been show to be careless with his own safety? Do I invite the homeless into my home if I am unaware of a person's level of self control?

People will live in the world they create for themselves. The best service we can do for others it to be a living witness to the one that brings light and life to the soul. We do this by kindness and we do this by service. Every step we take in life can reflect this to the world. Will this change the heart of a man who only takes from life and refuses to give? Will any amount of charity change the pattern of choices form taking to giving?

The best we can do is help when we see the need and be the example to those we affect by our choices. The rest is up to the individual. Help those who cannot help themselves. Those who take form life will stand or fall by their own choices. Any giving we do willingly, apart from a return, is suffering we do for the benefit of another. This can only make the world a better place.

reply to post by AnimositisominA


You think I'm going to tune in and watch garbage? I bought it mainly for films and for my partner to enjoy too. If you read my opening thread, you'll see that I wrote half the reason the world is in the state it's in is because people are living the life they deserve; fed utter tripe through music and TV and papers. Why? because they tune in, they buy and they read.

Read a book? I've spent my life reading. I think it's a little unfair when people start grouping together against me in your little cosy cyber living rooms, all drinking beer and feeling you're all on the same side because some 'troll', you might say, is causing upset on a forum. Isn't it nice to have support of others and feel invisible to individuality because of this cyber 'gang' culture. Gang does not have a negative conotation in this context, I'd like to add. I'm merely stating how, because it's easier to take the side of the masses rather than speak out and be an individual, you feel more superior and more able to make brusque, somewhat rude, sarcastic statements from behind the cyber group you have become part of in this thread.

At no point have I written about being selfish or arrogant. Nor have I said I really want the money back. Nor have I said I never do good, kind acts. In fact, if you'd take the time to read rather than tag along to this cyber group which you feel you can so easily join rather than standing out and being individual and stating your own ideas rather than those of your new collective, you would see that I have written about many good acts I have performed, do perform and will continue to perform.

It really does show a complete lack of individuality when people start writing all the same things; I am most sure that the majority, when taken aside as an individual, will actually feel the same way I do - but dear goodness never speak out alone about it because ofthe protection of your gang culture is more comfortable.

Look at me, all alone in this thread with everyone challenging me, finding stupid holes in my words just for something to say because its easier; rather than the more upfront and individual thing of actually embarking on a conversation about the subject.

A few facts remain:

I did a good deed to that man. How many of you lot have actually approached a homeless person to give? I'd bet my life a fair few. Unfortunately, you can write anything on this thread to counter my words which renders any discussion of this completely irrelevant.

Homeless people, whilst, as you say (note: you say, not me) have mental problems, so do people who are not homeless. People with some mental problems go to hospitals or have family. I will not accept, under any circumstance, that every homeless person I have ever seen in my life (and I've seen a few in the cities I've visited) has a mental problem. It's just mindless to say that. You absolutely cannot deny that ALSO a 'fair few' are doing nothing for themselves when they 'could' be - and it is these individuals whom I wish to talk about. Mental illness is something beyond my or your control - and I'm sorry for them, just like those starving in other countries and yes, it's down to authorities to sort out such problems which, we can see, they fail at miserably.

A large majority of non-homeless people also do not make large inputs into their lives and to say 'they can't is something I do not accept. It is the word of someone who is afraid of trying. I also find it astonishing that you all think I have no experience of 'the other side'. It's easy to write anything on this board, but how do I know you have? You can write anything and i must believe in the same way you must believe me. So, I will.

I had 2 friends commit suicide within 2 weeks when I was 17. One boy I know did become homeless (and I think still is). I know an individual who lost his job and wife (who was pregnant). I know a guy who lived in the back of his car but worked part-time in a snooker/pool house, afraid to go near his family.

For the relatives of the friends, I was the most present. For the homeless boy I drove him wherever he needed and sometimes bought food till he disappeared (police/crime unfortunately

reply to post by SuperiorEd


Nice words. And, for all others who might attach on to you rather than me, you have explained as I set out to do, that one reaps what one sows... as far as independent involvement is concerned.

I don't know why I need to be attacked for, rather than give an opinion, simply state what I see and witness.

Don't make an effort = get nothing
Do make an effort = get something

Sometimes you get a bonus for free, sometimes you lose something painfully.

It all levels out in the end if you act well.

reply to post by DB340

I work in mental health and you really don't know much about the mentally ill and homelessness do you?
Around 35% of homeless people have mental health issues.
oh and i quote

Don't make an effort = get nothing
Do make an effort = get something

Some people can't make an effort because they are ill, so you are saying sod em cos they cant do something?
In the world I like to think I am a part of I think we should help people who can't help themselves....whats your answer? get rid of them because they are useless?
You think that we are all ganging up on you? I wonder why? maybe it's because we all disagree with you durr.....
You have tried to get out of your original post by saying I didnt mean to say this and I put it in to get a response (The bit about wanting your fiver back) but when you get a response you get your knickers in a twist.
You have indeed trolled your own thread or realised that what you have said is a load of tripe and you are trying to wriggle yourself out of it.
You have contradicted yourself all thru this thread...
No point posting in this thread anymore folks, we found him out...

If you find my contradiction, I'll give you a million quid!

Easy words from you, sir (I suppose?). I have done nothing of the sort. I stick by all my (same) words.

I said in the thread that the use of 'I want my fiver back' was to ruffle feathers and make people respond a bit. It was a humourous (not to you, clearly) way to say 'Hey, I think you're not making an effort so give me my money back'. Do you think I'll go hunt him down and get it back off him?

Did you also know that 74% of statistics are made up? Statistics mean nothing. Second, if you know 35% are mentally ill, this means you know how many individuals make up the other 65%, right? That's logical. So what about those? Do you only help the mentally ill ones? Could I pull you to pieces over that? Perhaps, but I won't.

I admire your work. I would have a hard time working with mentally ill patients. I also, at no point in the entire thread, have said that I think nobody should be helped. That's you reading between lines which do not exist.

I have said, and I'm sad to write it again and again, which goes a long way to proving your misunderstanding, that many people, homeless or not, have what they deserve. Many great minds have come from poverty. Do you deny that? You can't, because it's true.

There is only one reason they became great from poverty... and that reason is NOT, I repeat, NOT, by sitting around drinking beer and having coins thrown at them. And if you fail to see that, then I feel we're living in different worlds.

reply to post by DB340


so all this to say. you attract what you seek.

reply to post by DB340

Fair enough I understand what you are saying but you sure have a stupid way of putting a point across.
Oh and humor doesn't come across very well in forums does it?
Also bragging about getting a big new TV then slagging off TV in the same post? eh?

Yes.

There was a famous motivational speaker who sold millions of copies of his secret.

It was?

"You are what you think about". I forget the gentleman's name but no doubt someone knows it here. It's on YT for sure. He says the greatest secret in the world is that you are, what you think about.

That kind of goes right next to: make an effort for good, good becomes of you, or don't, and it doesn't.

Or in other words...

*ding dong*

You get what you deserve.

It's not rocket science.

Originally posted by DB340
Yes.

There was a famous motivational speaker who sold millions of copies of his secret.

It was?

"You are what you think about". I forget the gentleman's name but no doubt someone knows it here. It's on YT for sure. He says the greatest secret in the world is that you are, what you think about.

That kind of goes right next to: make an effort for good, good becomes of you, or don't, and it doesn't.

Or in other words...

*ding dong*

You get what you deserve.

It's not rocket science.

Then why didnt you make a thread about this fella and his message and not your own story which just made you out as a evil selfish git?

Slightly harsh, but I don't think it did. I would never intentionally do that.

Humour fails here, it seems. Nevertheless, one deserves what one gets (minus external factors beyond our control - which I think goes without saying anyway).

I think you put up an interesting question in your OP. ( I've read the first page and a couples of post on the third... )

As a human being, I felt like needing to help everyone when I was young, and I did. But soon enough, I noticed that some people you helped would never show any form of acceptability of your action, some even becoming meaner; that is because you have seen them at their weakest moments, and they can't have that.

I was wondering what to do about it when someone told me about Jesus saying something about not throwing pearls to pigs. Basically, it meant help those who will appreciate your gesture. To whom it will be really beneficial.

One thing you could have done is ask for the homeless man's help to put your new TV in your car, then offer him some form of payment in exchange.

You wouldn't feel like simply giving away your money, and the homeless man would have felt useful, doubling is happiness for the day, as it would anyone.

You too have the choice; to help or not. Everyone, or those in need?

I will help change the tire of a stranger, but won't help a friend beat up someone because there is a money debt...

You did the right thing. Don't stop doing it, but do it with discernment. It'll be a win-win situation.

Thank you for a positive response.

I appreciate your words.

Originally posted by DB340
BlackSatinDancer,
Appreciate your words and undersand them but I am not sure how I hung up the phone when I physically responded to an emotional feeling which was quite new to me; that of me putting a large TV into my nice car and a homeless man being turned away by an unkind woman. Surely I'm the nice guy here? He didn't even come to me... I went to him!! I saw a huge difference in society and I tried to bridge that gap in the only way I could; some dosh in the car. I don't think he takes mastercard and I also reckon he's never been given more than £5 during his homeless days. I'm not searching for it at all since I did it alone and didn't tell anybody and nobody saw apart from the lady (not even my partner knows) but could I have a little positive light shed on me? Don't forget, this was just the catalyst for my larger thinking of: choice = reap what you sow, where human intervention is concerned.

Christopher Hitchens died of cancer - he didn't 'deserve' it, some say he did deserve it (which is a little cruel, I think) but, generally speaking, nobody deserves cancer as a killer. It's beyond our control, though.

I genuinely believe that ANYBODY (let's move on from homeless people, shall we?) can make a difference in their life simply by creating opporutnity. What you put it will usually come out in your favour. Sometimes you'll get bonuses and sometimes you'll lose a bit, but all in all, you'll have balanced, 'worthy' life that you deserve.

As I said, I stacked shelves. Technically, I would have had an uninteresting life. Not massive support from family and a simple, 'poor'-ish life both financially and reward-based. But, I chose to jump into the French language a while back, find a job teaching English in France (paying for a TEFL certificate and getting distinction) and living in France, meeting a French girl etc etc,. I still see a few similar faces when I go home to that same Tesco! Imagine. 7 years later, I am here and they are still stacking shelves. They may be happy but they have what they 'deserve'. That's all. I'm not saying if it's a better life or requires more brain power. They have what they deserve (stacking shelves for £1200/month) because they put in just waking up and going to work and going home. I, however, moved abroad and already have a huge list of experiences, three foreign languages, 1 of which used as an interpreter (the other 2 in the making) and other things I don't need to list now but which have occured through effort and 'deserving' them.

It's about effort and creating opportunities out of thin air. Send an email, set up a meeting, publicise a talent, create a portfolio of work and present it to established people/organisations, travel abroad and get a cheap simple job cleaning plates in a restaurant kitchen, pick up the lingo, walk in mountains in Italy, basque in the sun on your day off on a beach in Greece. Such opportunities don't require huge effort yet can lead to unbelievable experiences.

If anything, I'd like to hope at least one person feels a little inspired to change their life for the better after reading my words. After all, I'm not looking for confrontation. I'm still young, have many things to learn and experience and many people to meet and enjoy.

But it won't happen sitting outside a shop.

Clearly you don't have the slightest clue of what it is to be homeless or even very poor.

Three words: HE. IS. HOMELESS!

It's all well and good from your privileged position - where you have a place to live, where you have friends and family, where you have money and the ability to GET a job in the first place, to talking about "effort and creating opportunities", but a person who is homeless and living on the street isn't in a position to do the things you describe. How is he going to send an email, and to whom? How is he going to create this "portfolio of work" in the first place, and with what?

Most extremely, how in the hell could he "travel abroad" let alone "get a cheap simple job cleaning plates in a restaurant kitchen" - who in their right mind is going to hire a homeless person, with no resume, no fixed address, no references and no income? Restaurants have criteria for hiring workers, believe it or not, even for dishwashers. I know this having been involved in the industry for some years and I can guarantee you that nobody in their right mind would employ such a person. Let alone the fact that there's legal standards actually preventing such people being employed in the first place, and the added fact that generally a bank account is required (which obviously the homeless guy doesn't have). In all likeliness even if the poor guy did try to get a job he would be turned away - after all, nobody is going to seriously give a job interview to a guy turning up in rags, somebody who has no money, no friends or family, no income, no fixed address, no real skills and not even a bank account.

The idea that you can just "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" is a myth used to make people feel better about their disregard for those who are suffering. When you think the victim is responsible for their own suffering, then you're absolving yourself. Your logic can be applied to virtually anything - after all, you claim that everybody ultimately has some sort of "choice" - were the victims of the Rwandan genocide then getting what they deserved? The native americans? Holocaust victims? After all - "they could have chosen to resist hard enough to prevent it", according to your logic.

Blaming the victims for their own suffering is just a way to absolve yourself of any social responsibility. "They're getting what they deserve because their choices led to this, so it's not my responsibility to deal with." It's a dangerous position to hold and I for one consider it to be unconscionable.

So yes, I guess I am a selfish, arrogant git. But the fact will always remain that, people, within their means (I'll add this, as a disclaimer for you lot) will get... what... they... deserve, as far as 'human interception' is concerned.

It's worth mentioning that there is nothing factual about what you've stated here. Quit trying to pass off a philosophical position as fact. It's not a fact at all. You're free to think that, but it isn't fact, so stop calling it that.

... but again, you, like some other members, seem to be under the impression that homeless people are born there; they just spring up on the streets, do they? They do not. As I said before, it's a downhill spiral.

I am now going to do some research, whilst writing this thread, for successful people who pulled themselves out. I will genuinely do my best to find a few stories where they were either homeless or so poor they could pass as homeless, yet who made it very far. Every story will involve them creating opportunities 'out of thin air', because that's what life is about for 'normal' people not born into masses of milions of whatever currency it may be. But even so, like I said, people with tons of money to start with still need to make decisions and create opportunities for themselves.

Right, here is the link. I will highlight some important lines to support my stance: www.toptenz.net...

- At the young age of 16, Murray was left alone once her mother died of AIDS. Her father also abandoned her, moving to a homeless shelter. She went to high school, but often found herself sleeping in subways, park benches, or at a friend’s home. Without a great education, Murray was able to graduate in only two years and was able to attend Harvard.

- He was not able to pay the fine so he spent time in prison. Eventually, Osbourne would go on to become the singer of a local band, and many would recognize his talent. Soon enough with the help of friends, Ozzy was able to create his own band, Black Sabbath.

- Rowling was diagnosed with clinical depression and often contemplated suicide. She was unemployed and living on welfare. She was able to write and complete her first novel by going to several different cafés. Today, J.K. Rowling is worth about $1.1 billion.

- He was chased out of his home and had nowhere to go, so he enlisted in the Navy. At this time, Chris had no money and his wife was gone. His son proved to be his motivation, even though the two slept in subway station bathrooms. Chris was able to pass a licensing exam and received a job at Bear Sterns.

You get what you deserve.

Look up Partial Birth Abortion and tell me what in the world did this baby did to be welcomed into this world by having someone crush his skull. Please don't tell me aborted babies don't feel pain, that is bull.

What about all the people who will starve to death today? They are getting what they deserve?

Life isn't fair.

As for wanting your money back from a homeless man who thanked you so he could now have Christmas. I feel nothing but pity for you. You have alot to learn.

reply to post by DB340


I understand you.

From my vantage, the only right or wrong is Honest vs Dishonest.

Nothing more. There is nothing more to right or wrong in the entire universe. Everything ripples out from there.

Namaste

Originally posted by DB340
.

So, in conclusion, I think that I did the wrong thing. This man has 'chosen' to live like this. .

edit on 27-12-2011 by DB340 because: (no reason given)

lost any respect that you earned from me after reading this...


maybe someday you'll get what you deserve.


hope you enjoy your 42' tv.....