What Really Happened in Roswell 1947?

Originally posted by Gazrok
The thing about Roswell, is that there is a lot of good info, and a lot of bull.

However, when you boil it down to the facts...

1. SOMETHING crashed near Roswell in 1947.
2. This SOMETHING was recovered by the military.
3. This SOMETHING was then flown to different bases specializing in analyzing foreign technology.
4. The Army ANNOUNCED they had captured a flying disc.
5. The government has been CAUGHT in lies, so the deception is actually a FACT in this case.

Now, apply some common sense.

1. There is NO way that any tech in 1947 made by us, or other nations, would STILL be classified. Even the most advanced innovation then would be quite obsolete now.

2. Numerous military ranking personnel and other witnesses have consistent statements that point to an otherworldly origin for these things.

Yep, yep, and yep. I couldn't agree more. I especially agree that Something Crashed, Something was Covered Up, the Military Lied, they Are Still Lying...

Originally posted by Anunaki10
Reportedly the disc indeed inspired some Nazi scientists to construct different models of disc-shaped planes and the so-called flying bombs."

In the Captain America movie Captain America use a disc shaped Shield made of "exotic memory metal" material, material they found from something that crashed in that "Captain America" movie.
Back to the real world, the same material they describe in the "Captain America" movie is similar material described by Roswell witnesses as "exotic memory metal". It seems instructors/producers of the "Captain America" movie have been inspired a little bit by the descriptions of "exotic memory metal" from the real world.

Roswell - Unsolved mysteries TV program were Glenn Dennis also is interviewed.

Originally posted by Cosmic911

Originally posted by Gazrok
The thing about Roswell, is that there is a lot of good info, and a lot of bull.

However, when you boil it down to the facts...

1. SOMETHING crashed near Roswell in 1947.
2. This SOMETHING was recovered by the military.
3. This SOMETHING was then flown to different bases specializing in analyzing foreign technology.
4. The Army ANNOUNCED they had captured a flying disc.
5. The government has been CAUGHT in lies, so the deception is actually a FACT in this case.

Now, apply some common sense.

1. There is NO way that any tech in 1947 made by us, or other nations, would STILL be classified. Even the most advanced innovation then would be quite obsolete now.

2. Numerous military ranking personnel and other witnesses have consistent statements that point to an otherworldly origin for these things.

Yep, yep, and yep. I couldn't agree more. I especially agree that Something Crashed, Something was Covered Up, the Military Lied, they Are Still Lying...

One thing I wonder about the authors of "The Roswell Report: Case Closed"... Were the authors deliberately creating a work of disinformation or were they simply duped by "the authorities" that they referenced?

Anyways, it is funny (IMO) that they actually still have the temerity/audacity to post this stuff on their own website.
USAF Continues its Roswell Mythos

I hope that I won't be accused of being a "government disinformationist" simply for posting the link. I think most reasonable and informed people would agree with Gazrok that the USAF is lying about what happened - and is "covering up the truth" whatever that might be.

Originally posted by bluestreak53
One thing I wonder about the authors of "The Roswell Report: Case Closed"... Were the authors deliberately creating a work of disinformation or were they simply duped by "the authorities" that they referenced?

Anyways, it is funny (IMO) that they actually still have the temerity/audacity to post this stuff on their own website.
USAF Continues its Roswell Mythos

I hope that I won't be accused of being a "government disinformationist" simply for posting the link. I think most reasonable and informed people would agree with Gazrok that the USAF is lying about what happened - and is "covering up the truth" whatever that might be.

Well, it's possible that maybe the assistants (who were ordered to type "The Roswell Report: Case Closed" on typewriters (from the old days) or on computer's Word program) were not informed about the Roswell incident at all, and just instructed to write it down in the office and shut up. It seems very obvious it was the Secret Shadow Government who ordered the USAF to make that "dummy" report, and maybe they thought that investigators/researchers would never discover that, or maybe they simply overlooked that these test dummies were first used in the 1950's.
I think "The Roswell Report: Case Closed" is a work of disinformation, just like i also think the weather balloon story also is a work of disinformation as well.

Public information - Disinformation

PUBLIC INFORMATION, DISINFORMATION

The Caretaker:

“In order to protect all this information and the fact that the United States Government has evidence of our planet being visited by extraterrestrials, we developed over the years a very effective program to safeguard the information. We call it ‘Project DOVE.’ It is a complex series of operations by our military intelligence agencies to disinform the public.”

The cover up of the true nature of the U-2 spyplane program

This photo was taken at the NASA Flight Research Center at Edwards Air Force Base, California on 6 May 1960 as part of an elaborate effort by the CIA to cover-up the true nature of the U-2 spy plane program. On 1 May 1960 CIA pilot Francis Gary Powers was shot down over the Soviet Union during a spy flight. Cooperating with the CIA, NASA issued a press release with a cover story about a U-2 conducting weather research that may have strayed off course after the pilot "reported difficulties with his oxygen equipment." This photo shows a U-2 that was quickly painted in NASA markings, with a fictitious NASA serial number, and put on display for the news media at the Edwards NASA facility.

In reality, up to that time no U-2 was ever used by NASA. Unfortunately, Powers was captured by the Soviet Union and espionage equipment was recovered from the wreckage. Soviet Premier Nikita Khruschev exposed the cover-up and made much propaganda use of the American deception.

This is just another example of how the United States Shadow Government's disinformation campaign works, not just only cover up of UFOs. One of the reasons why they want to cover up UFOs and Extraterrestrial visitation is that when Orson Welles broadcasted "War of the worlds" on radio in the 1930's (before people had TV) many american citizens escaped from their own homes and tried to hide themselves! So if they let the public know about UFOs and alien visitation they fear it might create panic among american citizens! But, who knows, maybe the american citizens are ready to know about it today without get panicked and don't escape from their own homes today, well maybe, and maybe there will still be few american citizens today who will ESCAPE and TRY HIDE THEMSELVES in case they read info about it!
>>The bosses were really afraid of this, they were afraid of the War of the Worlds type stuff, and about panic in the streets. So we had to keep quiet.>Back in those glory days, I was very uncomfortable when they asked us to say things we didn't want to say and deny other things. Some people asked, you know, were you alone out there? We never gave the real answer, and yet we see things out there, strange things, but we know what we saw out there. And we couldn't really say anything. The bosses were really afraid of this, they were afraid of the War of the Worlds type stuff, and about panic in the streets. So we had to keep quiet.

Originally posted by Anunaki10
Are you trying to discredit Chief Golden Light Eagle? Then you're not doing a good job. You will never be able to discredit Chief Golden Light Eagle, no matter how hard you try. You know that, don't you? You will never be able to discredit native indians

Okay.. you're just jacking around with us, right? Messing with our heads? Joking?

First of all, it's ridiculous to state that anyone is incapable of being discredited due to ethnic origin. Every human "subspecies" is just as capable of deception (or insanity) as any other.

Secondly, there is no need to "discredit" Chief Golden Light Eagle or most of the other people you're quoting and defending, as they present no objective facts or evidence to be discredited.

The world is full of people who hear voices and receive "telepathic communications" from or have visions of/from God, the Devil, angels, demons, aliens, animals, spirits, spirit guides, and miscellaneous other assorted dead people. Fortunately most of the world applies common-sense logic with at least a nod to the "Scientific Method" and doesn't find auditory hallucinations, "telepathic messages," or visions to be creditable unless there is good, objective supporting evidence that they are real outside the experiencer's mind.

Therefore, as I said, there's no need to "discredit" the Chief or others like him. They discredit themselves with their lack of objective evidence as well as the outrageous nature of their claims. Why can't we just stick to the facts and the objective evidence following the path that Gazrok so clearly laid out for us?

As for Bob Lazar, he may or may not be telling the truth (as he sees it), but I'd bet money that he would be the first to object to implied connections or similarities between himself and the likes of Chief Golden Light Eagle.

Originally posted by hhott
Okay.. you're just jacking around with us, right? Messing with our heads? Joking?

Not at all 'hhot', i think it's rather you who are trying to destroy these debates here with your ridiculous naive attempts to discredit these cases. I'm afraid to inform you that you're obviously wasting your time here for nothing...

First of all, it's ridiculous to state that anyone is incapable of being discredited due to ethnic origin. Every human "subspecies" is just as capable of deception (or insanity) as any other.

Oh come, why don't you just realize it's pointless of you to try to discredit the native indians, huh? Just because they're capable of deception, it doesn't necessarily mean they deceive with their claims of being in contact with the spiritual world, mother Earth spirit, other spirits, transformation to Thunderbirds, and even contact with different 'Star races' visiting Earth, and he is not the only native indian to mention it. According to Cherokee the descendants of Pleiadians and Earth beings are called the Red nations of North America. Their story tells of Pleidian star people comming to Atlantis, intermingling with the original Earth inhabitants, and having children that carried the beginnings of higher consiousness.

In this 11:11:11 Starknowledge Chief Golden Light Eagle explain the symbols (reportedly given by other star people) representing spiritual and universal laws.

Secondly, there is no need to "discredit" Chief Golden Light Eagle or most of the other people you're quoting and defending, as they present no objective facts or evidence to be discredited.

It's nice to see that YOU FINALLY REALIZE it's pointless of you to try to discredit Chief Golden Light Eagle! No evidence you say? Chief Golden Light Eagle showed symbols representing spiritual and universal laws, reportedly given by other star people

The world is full of people who hear voices and receive "telepathic communications" from or have visions of/from God, the Devil, angels, demons, aliens, animals, spirits, spirit guides, and miscellaneous other assorted dead people. Fortunately most of the world applies common-sense logic with at least a nod to the "Scientific Method" and doesn't find auditory hallucinations, "telepathic messages," or visions to be creditable unless there is good, objective supporting evidence that they are real outside the experiencer's mind.

I have to add the about 1600 cases of "Starchildren" were several adults contact Mary Rodwell because they claim that their children are in contact with aliens from outer space, that their children have telepathic skills, read other people's mind, reportedly also have healing skills.
You mention "Telepathic communications" from aliens. Yes, i just mentioned the "Starchildren". Also, for example Frankie Rowe mentioned "Telepathic communication" with the surviving Roswell alien during CNN Larry King Live - Roswell Incident unmasked, and also another example were Bob Dean told that Philip Corso told him about his alien encounter at White Sands, Phil Corso reportedly had telepathic communication with an alien.

You also mentioned God, the Devil, Angels, Demons, animals, spirits guides, dead people.
Can you please tell more about it? Any case you know of, about God, Devil, Angels, Demons, animals, spirit guides, dead people?

reply to post by hhott


While so and a lot of things can be explained, etc. I see major fallacy or hole in debunking. One always tries to explain things in rational and explainable ways. There are many things that remain unexplained because it is neither of what we know - this is a fact there are such things. So in an attempt to explain things as something that is known, it becomes fake just because it is not known. I'm adressing this to maybe some abilities or skills some people have,

People in the past were much more spiritual and engaged with mysteries. To great extent a lot of the world today is DUMBER, they just think of what new outfit to buy, some completely materialistic things.

Another fallacy I find is that when even part of something is considered to be wrong, the whole information about it has to be wrong - this is a pretty WRONG thinking. A lot of the stories are truth mixed with made up or changed information and this is how true and untrue mix together.

For Rosewell, I follow that there has been more than 1 crash, there has been crashes/taken down before '47, and that the Industrial Military Complex are still hiding something.

reply to post by Imtor

Another fallacy I find is that when even part of something is considered to be wrong, the whole information about it has to be wrong - this is a pretty WRONG thinking. A lot of the stories are truth mixed with made up or changed information and this is how true and untrue mix together.

Those who have been tasked with keeping the truth secret have mastered the art of disinformation. The unfortunate part about Roswell is time. Time is the enemy for those who seek the truth. With the passing of each witness to Roswell we are losing part of the truth.

I think you're also right about the Military-Industrial Complex. While President Eisenhower explicitly warned us about it, I doubt even he realized just how powerful it would become.

reply to post by Imtor


Well, that depends. Do you want to be the only one "in the know," like a kid with a secret clubhouse? Or do you want to help convince "the rest of the world" that conspiracy theories, ufology, cryptozoology, and paranormal studies might be something more than a bunch of crazy, deluded people who believe in "fairy tales"?

Start talking about native Indian (by the way Ana, it's Native American!) spiritual chiefs, reptilian aliens secretly in charge of the world, Elvis being still alive and working in a Burger King, and so on, and 90% of "normal" people will pat you on the back (or call you a nutjob to your face) and walk away. They don't have the experience and time invested to sort out what might have some substance from what's hogwash, and they don't really care, so they throw out any possible babies with all that .. bathwater.

If, on the other hand, you present serious, documented, FACTS supported by objective evidence (as Gazrok so competently did for us in an earlier post), they may look at it and actually see the possibility that there's something to it. As I said earlier, a factual approach to Roswell might be the crowbar that pries open their closed minds .. just a crack, but it's a start.

Although I participate in "debunking" things such as UFO/ghost photographs which are actually birds, lens flare, insects, or dust motes, my aim is not to "debunk" anything, it's to "deny ignorance" and present people with the best possible evidence in hopes of getting some of them to take it seriously.

I do admit to having my own personal biases and prejudices, though, which undoubtedly affect what I will accept as "real". I'm sorry, but I just can't take seriously anything that comes from someone named "Chief Golden Light Eagle."

Originally posted by hhott
Well, that depends. Do you want to be the only one "in the know," like a kid with a secret clubhouse? Or do you want to help convince "the rest of the world" that conspiracy theories, ufology, cryptozoology, and paranormal studies might be something more than a bunch of crazy, deluded people who believe in "fairy tales"?

Do you really think that the paranormal world including UFO / encounters with Extraterrestrials are just fairy tales "fairy tales"? Alien implants are tested and concluded to be of Extraterrestrial origin by some of the best experts in on this planet, and not only that, even the Roswell debris is tested, and Batelle Scientist did confess to have analyzed this "not of this Earth" Roswell debris.
I think you're only here to try to destroy the debates here. You're wasting your time here for nothing. Why don't you just go home to Kindergarten, huh. But of course 'hhott', if you want to continue to play "Dungeon and Dragon", kid, then please be our guest on this forum... But don't expect anyone to take you seriously...

Although I participate in "debunking" things such as UFO/ghost photographs which are actually birds, lens flare, insects, or dust motes, my aim is not to "debunk" anything, it's to "deny ignorance" and present people with the best possible evidence in hopes of getting some of them to take it seriously.

Then why don't you just show YOUR SOCALLED PHOTOS here? Let me guess, you don't have ANY photos to show here, you are you just lying again, right 'hhott' ?

'hhott', you mentioned God, the Devil, Angels, Demons, animals, spirits guides, dead people.
Can you please tell more about it? Any case you know of, about God, Devil, Angels, Demons, animals, spirit guides, dead people?

I'm sorry, but I just can't take seriously anything that comes from someone named "Chief Golden Light Eagle."

Chief Golden Light Eagle is more reliable than YOU WILL EVER BE! And 'hhott', you better get used to THIS: NOBODY take you seriously...

Originally posted by Cosmic911
reply to post by Imtor

 

Another fallacy I find is that when even part of something is considered to be wrong, the whole information about it has to be wrong - this is a pretty WRONG thinking. A lot of the stories are truth mixed with made up or changed information and this is how true and untrue mix together.

Those who have been tasked with keeping the truth secret have mastered the art of disinformation. The unfortunate part about Roswell is time. Time is the enemy for those who seek the truth. With the passing of each witness to Roswell we are losing part of the truth.

I think you're also right about the Military-Industrial Complex. While President Eisenhower explicitly warned us about it, I doubt even he realized just how powerful it would become.

I had an idea today on disinformation. We can learn something about the truth by understanding the target of the disinformation. For example, I've been arguing that the initial press release from Roswell was deliberate disinformation instead of the more commonly accepted alternatives (truth that slipped-out or mis-identification of a Mogul balloon). Who was the target of that disinformation? The Russians would immediately recognize it as disinformation, so they weren't the target. The Army quickly reversed the story, so most people in the United States never even saw the initial press release and they weren't the target. I think the target was the news media and the people of Roswell. The Army didn't want reporters and locals to dig deeper, so they embarrassed the AP and discredited the eyewitnesses in Roswell.

reply to post by cloudyday


Ok, I'm following you on the target idea.

I think the target was the news media and the people of Roswell. The Army didn't want reporters and locals to dig deeper, so they embarrassed the AP and discredited the eyewitnesses in Roswell.

I think I'm a little confused on the idea that the headlines embarrassed the AP. I can understand the harassment the eyewtinesses underwent. But it was the Army that released the information. To me, it embarrasses RAAF and the Army. The AP just published what information the Army gave them. Or am I misunderstanding?

Originally posted by cloudyday
I had an idea today on disinformation. We can learn something about the truth by understanding the target of the disinformation. For example, I've been arguing that the initial press release from Roswell was deliberate disinformation instead of the more commonly accepted alternatives (truth that slipped-out or mis-identification of a Mogul balloon). Who was the target of that disinformation? The Russians would immediately recognize it as disinformation, so they weren't the target. The Army quickly reversed the story, so most people in the United States never even saw the initial press release and they weren't the target. I think the target was the news media and the people of Roswell. The Army didn't want reporters and locals to dig deeper, so they embarrassed the AP and discredited the eyewitnesses in Roswell.

edit on 22-1-2012 by cloudyday because: (no reason given)

You mean the Russians recognized the weather balloon story as disinformation, right? Not only the Russians, there are lots of others who recognize(d) the weather balloon story as disinformation.

Originally posted by Cosmic911
reply to post by cloudyday

 

Ok, I'm following you on the target idea.

I think the target was the news media and the people of Roswell. The Army didn't want reporters and locals to dig deeper, so they embarrassed the AP and discredited the eyewitnesses in Roswell.

I think I'm a little confused on the idea that the headlines embarrassed the AP. I can understand the harassment the eyewtinesses underwent. But it was the Army that released the information. To me, it embarrasses RAAF and the Army. The AP just published what information the Army gave them. Or am I misunderstanding?

Maybe "embarrass" isn't the right word. Imagine a witness from Roswell approached a reporter a year after this incident claiming that he saw aliens or something. That reporter goes to his boss to ask to investigate these claims. His boss then says, "No! We already heard about that a year ago and it was just a weather balloon. These are just more rumors from those bumpkins in Roswell." Of course the witnesses would know what they saw, but no reporter or neighbor would listen to them because their story already came out and was "debunked".

Essentially it was "preemptive debunking" before the rumors had a chance to be investigated by the press.

reply to post by cloudyday


Ok, that clarifies it better. That makes more sense.

Here is where I have a difficult time with the press release. Disinformation or not, I still have a hard time believing the Army or RAAF would have made that initial press release had it really been extraterrestrial in origin. It just seems that would have been awfully risky to officially put it in the paper by the government. I don't believe our government at the time had enough foresight to plant the seeds of a monumental disinformation campaign that has existed for over 60 years.

Of course, there is always the possibility that, despite themselves, they have accidentally created the greatest disinformation of all time

reply to post by Cosmic911



Hey Cosmi911--

Check out these photos :

www.earthfiles.com...

Then take a very close look at the TELEX in the hands of General Ramey in the 'crashed' BW weather balloon pics - there are letters that can be read...

Here is a transcript of the US Army Communique dated 9 July 1947 – ( a few hours before football legend Orenthal James ("OJ") Simpson was born…hmmm) which was digitally-enlarged using the most recent Computer Enhancement Techniques (sort of using CIA photo-technology against them…) and can now be read.

It seems from the US ARMY Communique that a ‘DISK’ with ‘VICTIMS OF THE WRECK’ were recovered by the US Army then shipped to Wright Field via Fort Worth TX which aligns with what Lt Phillip Corso wrote in his book THE DAY AFTER ROSWELL…and that the Weather Baloon Story was all a big cover….

ENLARGED TEXT # 1

QUOTE

[…that some o]F THE AVIATORS IN THE “DISK” THEY WILL SHIP FOR: A1 – 8th Army AMMC BY B-29 ST [special transport?] OR BY c-47 WRIGHT AF [B] stop.

ASSIST FLY OUT AT ROSWELL A[F]B stop.

ASSSURE THAT CIC TEAMS SAID THIS – WHICH MIS-STATES MEANING OF STORY & THINK LATER TODAY NEXT SEND OUT PR RELEASE OF WEATHER BALLOONS WWOULD FARE BETTER IF THEY ADDED – LAND D E M or a W I N

- Ramey”

ENLARGED TEXT # 2

QUOTE

“…FWAAF [Fort Worth Army Air Field?] ACKNOWLEDGES THAT A ‘DISK’ WAS LATER RECOVERED – NEXT TO NEW FIND WEST OF THE CORDON stop

IN ADDITION WAS A ‘POD’ NEAR OPERATION AT T.R.I. ‘RANCH’ WHERE WAS FOUND VICTIMS OF THE WRECK YOU FORWARDED TO ARMY SAS AT FWAFF

- Ramey”

UNQUOTE

Am I the ONLY one who sees & smells a BIG Smoking Gun here?

Well, in the humble Opinion of this ole ATS member - something's rotten in the 'State' of Roswell.... !!!!

Originally posted by Cosmic911
reply to post by cloudyday

 

Ok, that clarifies it better. That makes more sense.

Here is where I have a difficult time with the press release. Disinformation or not, I still have a hard time believing the Army or RAAF would have made that initial press release had it really been extraterrestrial in origin. It just seems that would have been awfully risky to officially put it in the paper by the government. I don't believe our government at the time had enough foresight to plant the seeds of a monumental disinformation campaign that has existed for over 60 years.

Of course, there is always the possibility that, despite themselves, they have accidentally created the greatest disinformation of all time

edit on 22-1-2012 by Cosmic911 because: (no reason given)

It would be great if I could find an example where this "preemptive debunking" was used during WWII. I agree my idea is far fetched, but it isn't easy to explain that ridiculous initial press release.

There is a UFO report from almost that same year where the behavior of authorities is entirely different:
A couple was driving through New Mexico in 1949 and an object crashed nearby making a crater 45 feet wide and 15 feet deep with metal debris. They took a piece of strange metal home to Houston and then:

He took it to authorities in Houston, where they confiscated it and swore him to secrecy.

from "Grassroots UFOs" page 87, Michael D. Swords, Anomalist Books

I think the space craft either crashed on purpose or it was shot down by the US military.

reply to post by cloudyday

It would be great if I could find an example where this "preemptive debunking" was used during WWII. I agree my idea is far fetched, but it isn't easy to explain that ridiculous initial press release.

I don't think its far fetched; God knows our government has done stranger things.

Ya know, most days I totally believe a UFO crashed in the desert that July. Other days, I think it was something else. Common sense tells us no level of technology in 1947 could still be classified today, unless, of course, it was extraterrestrial. The only other explanation I can think of is that we were experimenting with Nazi technology and we didn't want the public to find out. We all know about Operation Paperclip and the great lengths the government went to conceal the true identities of the German scientists. I don't think the public was ready to find out post-WWII that our ballistic missile programs and early space exploration program was run by Nazis.

Hell, even the Manhatten Project was able to be infiltrated by spys. How could UFOs not be? If you consider the time of the country during the atomic age and all the levels of compartmentalization that General Groves was responsible for, and those programs became infiltrated with spys, how could the Roswell incident not be infiltrated? Unless there was nothing worth infiltrating? Just a thought...

Originally posted by Sigismundus
Hey Cosmi911-- Check out these photos : www.earthfiles.com...

Thanks for posting that interesting link about testimonies about "Non human bodies", 'Sigismundus' And from that link i also noticed there was a dude who was not allowed to come into the hangar

>>Did your father go into the hangar?>He could not get in. He had a TOP SECRET CLEARANCE and he could not get in. My father was very curious because he did have a TOP SECRET CLEARANCE, but that's when the security officer told him he had seen parts of bodies inside the hangar that did not look human.>Hey Serge, where are you going?I'm going in the building to put some fuel and injection pumps and flyway kits. The MP said >>You can't go in there