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What Really Happened in Roswell 1947?

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posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by Cosmic911
reply to post by cloudyday
 


Personally, I would not have released anything either. I don't really believe this explanation. I believe that first press release was the honest and off-the-cuff release.


The problem is that a press release is not at all off-the-cuff. Somebody sat down and typed it on a typewriter and then probably someone else approved it. It wasn't somebody talking to a reporter over a beer.

I think that initial press release about finding a flying disc was carefully crafted by some group in Washington and then the officers at Roswell were told to release it to the Associated Press. Then that same group in Washington set up the false weather balloon story for the officers at Fort Worth to release. So after the AP, the RAAF, and the local authorities were set-up to look like fools any tidbits of truth that slipped-out would be assumed to be more Roswell foolishness.

Roswell was the only atomic bomb group, so secrecy would surely be the default way to handle anything unexpected - whether it's a crashed flying disc with aliens or something else. That initial press release may have been true, but it was deliberately released so that it could be immediately discredited. That's the only explanation that makes sense to me.

I also think that the disinformation works better if it is partially true. Why use a story about a crashed flying disc to discredit rumors about a Mogul balloon? Most local people wouldn't even care about a crashed balloon with junk hanging on it. It had to really be a flying disc or something very similar to a flying disc to make the disinformation most effective.


edit on 15-1-2012 by cloudyday because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by cloudyday
That initial press release may have been true, but it was deliberately released so that it could be immediately discredited. That's the only explanation that makes sense to me.

Finally you admit the original press release was on news paper. There is no way that the Army would have said that they had captured a flying saucer unless they had.



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by Ops4Ops
I spelled some things wrong did I....Guess it being one of my first posts I was a bit nervous and excited, being a new member and all! I just recently did a thread on the book written by Annie JACOBSEN. Its not that popular and looks as if I have got my work cut out for me, because I really love ATS and want to be a great addition to it. If you get a chance maybe you could check it out and feel free to let me know what all I messed up on, cause seems like that was your basis of the reply you sent me.

Less popular like for example www.amazon.com... "What Really Happened in Roswell?" by author Kathleen Krull?
What thread about Annie Jacobsen? On ATS, or another forum? It's always something she doesn't seem to buy Opreation "Skyhook" weather balloon explanation. Seems to be a new theory about a Russian-made "secret airplane" theoretically crashed at Roswell and crewed by 'human children'. Guy Malone came up with "mutated small humans" theory. The description of these 'human children' does not fit with the reported 'Roswell aliens' with reptilian like skin, and Telepathic skills like Frankie Rowe described" (about 5:20 in this CNN Larry King Live - Roswell incident unmasked, Part 2). Reportedly there are about 1600 cases of "Starchildren", but these 'Roswell aliens' allegedly crashed with their UFOs at Roswell reportedly are from the Zeta Reticuli starsystem (among other star races also mentioned by Chief Golden Light Eagle "Standing Elk").

Anyway, i think will i check out Annie Jacobsen anyway. Looks interesting. Thanks 'Ops4Ops'

edit on 15-1-2012 by Anunaki10 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by cloudyday
 


I guess off-the-cuff wasn't the best description. I personally believe that first press release was the truth and it was an "Oh Sh*&" moment. It was an exculpatory statement. They released it and then had second thoughts about it. As much as I would like to believe that it was a calculated move by the government, I just don't believe they had enough insight or resourceful organization regarding UFOs/E.T. in 1947 to initiate a disinformation campaign that has existed and perserved for over 60 years.
edit on 15-1-2012 by Cosmic911 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by Cosmic911
reply to post by cloudyday
 


I guess off-the-cuff wasn't the best description. I personally believe that first press release was the truth and it was an "Oh Sh*&" moment. It was an exculpatory statement. They released it and then had second thoughts about it. As much as I would like to believe that it was a calculated move by the government, I just don't believe they had enough insight or resourceful organization regarding UFOs/E.T. in 1947 to initiate a disinformation campaign that has existed and perserved for over 60 years.
edit on 15-1-2012 by Cosmic911 because: (no reason given)


O.k. let's put ourselves in the shoes of those officers at Roswell. We've found this mysterious debris. The newspapers for weeks have been filled with reported sightings of flying discs. If those discs exist they are either top secret domestic, top secret foreign, or extra terrestrial. We don't know what a flying disc is and we don't know what this debris is for sure.

So what do we do? Hmmm. I think we will issue a press release declaring to the world that we have recovered one of these flying discs. Never mind that the debris might be a Soviet spy device, a top secret US aircraft, or even extra terrestrial. We won't leave those decisions to our superiors after they have studied the debris. No, we want to be famous all over the world and damn the consequences:


The many rumors regarding the flying disc became a reality yesterday when the intelligence office of the 509th Bomb group of the Eighth Air Force, Roswell Army Air Field, was fortunate enough to gain possession of a disc through the cooperation of one of the local ranchers and the sheriff's office of Chaves County. The flying object landed on a ranch near Roswell sometime last week. Not having phone facilities, the rancher stored the disc until such time as he was able to contact the sheriff's office, who in turn notified Maj. Jesse A. Marcel of the 509th Bomb Group Intelligence Office. Action was immediately taken and the disc was picked up at the rancher's home. It was inspected at the Roswell Army Air Field and subsequently loaned by Major Marcel to higher headquarters.


Also the ghost rocket investigation happened before Roswell and the flying discs were in the news for weeks. So I wouldn't be surprised if there was a contingency plan for discrediting eyewitnesses that might find a crashed flying disc - especially if the US was trying to make one crash.

Anyway, this is just what I think. I know I'm not an expert on this topic.
edit on 15-1-2012 by cloudyday because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 02:33 AM
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Originally posted by cloudyday
O.k. let's put ourselves in the shoes of those officers at Roswell.

Sgt. Frederick Benthal testified that he photographed the alien bodies, and retired Brigadier General Arthur Exon, Wright-Patterson AFB commanding officer, said Roswell was the crash of a craft from space and that he had been informed about the bodies by people who were involved. He also knew some of the photographers who had been involved, but unfortunately didn't provide any names. Dr. Wernher Von Braun reportedly witnessed one of the crashed UFOs and alien bodies with reptilian like skin.
Marcel Sr. was ordered to pose with the false tin foil against his own will. However, General Ramey later reportedly told another officer about the debris >>It was out of this world, Son. Out of this world!Essentially, Frankie, your father was telling you he saw an alien, right?>Yes. That's correct.>What did he say? What did he make of it?>He said that they tried to help it, and that the little person told them that there was nothing that they could do to help him.>He spoke in English?>He did not talk to them in words. He talked to them "in their head". But they all understood and heard the same thing at the same time.>Did he go a little berserk over this? Did he try to tell other officials? Did he try to go to the press?>No. He didn't do anything other than he was out there to do his job. And that was all. And before they could actually do anything there at the crash site itself, the military came and escorted them off of the location.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 03:57 AM
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Originally posted by cloudyday
We've found this mysterious debris.

This mysterious debris is reportedly described as "exotic memory metal". Elroy John Center confessed to have analyzed the Roswell alien debris. There reportedly was unusual hieroglyphic signs on an I-Beam, another unusual heiroglyphic signs from another crash case from South Africa, another unusual hieroglyphic signs from another UFO crash case. So Roswell is not the only case were unusual hieroglyphic signs are mentioned.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 05:32 AM
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Originally posted by Anunaki10

Originally posted by cloudyday
We've found this mysterious debris.

This mysterious debris is reportedly described as "exotic memory metal". Elroy John Center confessed to have analyzed the Roswell alien debris. There reportedly was unusual hieroglyphic signs on an I-Beam, another unusual heiroglyphic signs from another crash case from South Africa, another unusual hieroglyphic signs from another UFO crash case. So Roswell is not the only case were unusual hieroglyphic signs are mentioned.


Also, if we temporarily limit our judgement to the provable facts of Roswell - the initial press release followed by the press release in Forth Worth - the official story makes no sense. No sensible person would have written that initial press release. That is something I think the sceptics of Roswell fail to consider. The current government claim about Mogul cover-up doesn't make sense to me either. In the cases where people actually found Mogul balloon debris it was no big deal. As I recall in some cases the Mogul people didn't even care about recovering the debris.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 06:27 AM
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And, as I mentioned on page 5 of this thread, the records show that a Mogul array was launched June 5 then recovered 25 miiles east of Roswell, according to what retired Lt. Col. Wayne Madson said on Larry King Live. He also said the records showed no launch on June 4, because of bad weather. Of course, Bill Nye scoffed at that. But, sure, many Mogul arrays had been retrieved without fanfare.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 06:49 AM
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Originally posted by cloudyday
Also, if we temporarily limit our judgement to the provable facts of Roswell - the initial press release followed by the press release in Forth Worth - the official story makes no sense. No sensible person would have written that initial press release. That is something I think the sceptics of Roswell fail to consider.

Roswell debris tested as one of the facts


Are you refering to the official story of the weather balloon story that even the Shadow Government afterwards admitted as false? Yeah, we know that the weather balloon story is false.


The current government claim about Mogul cover-up doesn't make sense to me either. In the cases where people actually found Mogul balloon debris it was no big deal. As I recall in some cases the Mogul people didn't even care about recovering the debris.

Can you prove what people found Mogul Balloon? You do know that Mogul have been debunked, yes?



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 07:08 AM
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Originally posted by cloudyday
We don't know what a flying disc is and we don't know what this debris is for sure.

A flying disc is of course a flying disc, often round like a dinner plate. Can fly at incredible speeds, make sharp angle turns while at high speeds, not only eye witness testimony but also tracked on radar as well. NORAD reportedly track about 500 "Fastwalkers" (UFOs) that enter Earth's atmosphere from deep space and leave Earth's atmosphere into deep space each year.
Reportedly it took Reticulans to travel 9 months at the distance of about 40 light years from the Reticuli starsystem to Earth, while Pleiadians and Andromedans reportedly travel in a "Split Second" for example from the Pleiades (about 420 light years of distance) to this starsystem, or from for example one end of the galaxy to the other end of the galaxy, or from galaxy to another galaxy, and yes, reportedly still in a "split second".

So you don't know what this debris is for sure? You can start watch this Roswell debris tested
Batelle scientist Elroy John Center confessed to have analyzed the Roswell alien debris, and described by witnesses as "exotic memory metal", and there is the description of I-Beam with unusual hieroglyphic signs as well (among other UFO crash cases that also describe unusual hieroglyphic signs).

There is a case of Reverse-engineering Roswell UFO technology , so not only did Gary McKinnon hack into NASA's secret files about UFOs and free energy, but even someone like for example Steven Greer revealed extraterrestrial reverse engineering in this conference

The incident


Barry Castillio, Lazar's coworker, told the story of an altercation that took place in 1979 between the aliens and the humans at the base. Apparently, the aliens were given a location at the facility to conduct experiments. It was agreed between the aliens and humans that there would be human military guards securing the immediate perimeter. One day, due to the volatility concerns the aliens had over a certain experiment that they were conducting, they demanded that the guards not be present. The concern was that the bullets in their guns and gunbelts would cause a reaction. The guards refused and proceeded to come closer to the danger area. They were immediately terminated by the aliens, later found by two other guards to be lying dead of identical head wounds.

The actions and reactions of these events escalated until 44 military guards were killed. The aliens then killed the scientist they were teaching and left the facility and much of the alien technology behind.

edit on 16-1-2012 by Anunaki10 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 07:26 AM
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Originally posted by xpoq47
And, as I mentioned on page 5 of this thread, the records show that a Mogul array was launched June 5 then recovered 25 miiles east of Roswell, according to what retired Lt. Col. Wayne Madson said on Larry King Live. He also said the records showed no launch on June 4, because of bad weather. Of course, Bill Nye scoffed at that. But, sure, many Mogul arrays had been retrieved without fanfare.






Exactly. I doubt Mogul array retrivievals normally warranted the kind of response the Roswell Incident generated on July 7th.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by cloudyday
Also, if we temporarily limit our judgement to the provable facts of Roswell - the initial press release followed by the press release in Forth Worth - the official story makes no sense. No sensible person would have written that initial press release. That is something I think the sceptics of Roswell fail to consider. The current government claim about Mogul cover-up doesn't make sense to me either. In the cases where people actually found Mogul balloon debris it was no big deal. As I recall in some cases the Mogul people didn't even care about recovering the debris.
Basically it is this simple. If you are trying to stop the Soviets getting wind of Mogul, you do not report a headline grabbing Flying Saucer story that attracts attention.

NOT EVER. NOT IN A MILLION YEARS. NO WAY!

The Pentagon do not get involved with Balloon retrieval or request debris from balloons be carried there by an officer.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by Cosmic911

Originally posted by xpoq47
And, as I mentioned on page 5 of this thread, the records show that a Mogul array was launched June 5 then recovered 25 miiles east of Roswell, according to what retired Lt. Col. Wayne Madson said on Larry King Live. He also said the records showed no launch on June 4, because of bad weather. Of course, Bill Nye scoffed at that. But, sure, many Mogul arrays had been retrieved without fanfare.






Exactly. I doubt Mogul array retrivievals normally warranted the kind of response the Roswell Incident generated on July 7th.


I like reading history and I also like watching 1940's - 1950's science fiction movies.

That initial press release "RAAF Captures Flying Saucer On Ranch in Roswell Region" is not in character for the real US military, because the real US military in the 1940's had the same secretive attitude as our modern US military - if anything they may have been less likely to share the news with everybody in the world because the intelligence reforms of the Church Committee were still in the future. These were the days when the US wouldn't think twice about overthrowing an unfriendly government.

However, that press release perfectly matches the expected behaviour of the US military in a science fiction movie of the period. In the movies the astronomers, army, or government officials immediately announce everything they know about the invading martians. I think the average citizen from that period never even considered that government officials would hide the truth.

In my opinion that is yet more evidence that the initial press release was public disinformation - it was not an accident. (Sorry, I don't mean to be beating this issue to death, but it really bothers me. We don't need to trust people like Bob Lazar to be suspicious about Roswell.)

edit on 16-1-2012 by cloudyday because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 10:43 AM
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History? Okay. The concept for the National Security Act of 1947 existed before the crash but was stalled by bickering about who would get what. Then President Truman sent them a compromise bill that sailed through unchanged, and he was able to sign it into law on July 26. Fast work!

en.wikipedia.org...


edit on 16-1-2012 by xpoq47 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by cloudyday
Why use a story about a crashed flying disc to discredit rumors about a Mogul balloon?

'Cloudyday' your attempt to discredit the Roswell UFO crash case does NOT work, no matter how hard you try. The news about the captured flying saucer and backed up by witnesses was NEVER a cover story for Mogul. Why don't you just leave it, huh? And i'm gonna tell you this again, Mogul have been debunked.

And in case you should try to accuse the witnesses for coming forward because of fame and money, i can tell you they don't do for fame nor money, and deathbed confessions are not made for fun either.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 11:01 AM
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Strong believer! But I think the government wanted people to chase UFOS! They knew people would eat it up! ...The people fell for it! Keeps the people off their back so they can continue their plan of world domination!



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by xpoq47
History? Okay. The concept for the National Security Act of 1947 existed before the crash but was stalled by bickering about who would get what. Then President Truman sent them a compromised bill that sailed through unchanged, and he was able to sign it into law on July 26. Fast work!

en.wikipedia.org...



Don't forget about Project Paperclip and the similar deals we made with Japanese scientists to get the results of their experiments on POWs and Chinese civilians. And of course there was the huge and secret Manhattan Project. There was already a culture of secrecy in the US military by the time of Roswell. So the default behaviour of RAAF would be to secure the debris, tell their superiors, and keep silent. There is no way they would release this information to the press except in a script from a science fiction movie. If you are deliberately trying to deceive the public with disinformation it makes sense to pretend to behave like the open and honest boy scouts the 1940's civilians expect you to be.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by Anunaki10

Originally posted by cloudyday
Why use a story about a crashed flying disc to discredit rumors about a Mogul balloon?

'Cloudyday' your attempt to discredit the Roswell UFO crash case does NOT work, no matter how hard you try. The news about the captured flying saucer and backed up by witnesses was NEVER a cover story for Mogul. Why don't you just leave it, huh? And i'm gonna tell you this again, Mogul have been debunked.

And in case you should try to accuse the witnesses for coming forward because of fame and money, i can tell you they don't do for fame nor money, and deathbed confessions are not made for fun either.


You're misunderstanding my argument. I think something happened at Roswell and it wasn't a Mogul balloon. I think the initial press release from Roswell was disinformation and I think the press release from Fort Worth was more disinformation. I think the Mogul story is still more disinformation.

I think the debris was perceived by locals to be a crashed flying disc otherwise the disinformation effort to discredit anybody with that story would have been pointless. If the average person saw a Mogul balloon crash, they probably would think it was a bunch of trash or litter. There would be no need to cover that up.

I think we need to look no further than the newspaper stories from that period to be very suspicious. If it wasn't a crashed ET aircraft then it was something that looked like one.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by cloudyday
 





I think the initial press release from Roswell was disinformation and I think the press release from Fort Worth was more disinformation.


So what do you believe was the intention of the disinformation? Do you think the disinformation worked for or against the military in regards to Roswell?



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