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The Conspiracy Against Labeling:

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posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by jjf3rd77
 


To say 'this' is 'that' and 'that' is 'this' is not a problem. Do you not see that you went on a prejudice rant and began to call people cowards that you do not know nor will never meet? Do you assume everyone does every thing for the same reasons and motives? You said all renounce labels out of cowardice. How do you know this? Do you truly know that all who do not think as you or express as you are cowards? Is this knowledge you speak, or is it emotionally ego-based?

Can you name me a single thing that came into existence 100% on its own... exists 100% on its own... and does not rely on a single thing to exist or survive? Can you not see that ALL things are interconnected and co-dependent? What is dark and what is light? Only but expressions of the same reality. What is good and what is evil? Only but view points of the same reality.

We can see reality for each expression that it is, but when we become impartial to one aspect of reality, we close ourselves off from the rest of reality.

Do all want love, peace, or unity? Of course not! But my concepts of unity would not exist without your concepts of separation, and vice versa. Who has the better opinion, me or you? Neither, for all is One.




posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 03:49 PM
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reply to post by vasaga
 


Exactly! It is an individual's right to decide what he/she should and could say. Most people just blab about whatever comes out of their mouths, and I have myself done this at times. Even less will admit it or look at what they just said logically.

But then, it comes to the point where what becomes racist? What is a bad label vs good label? I don't feel that others have the right to tell me that!



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by jjf3rd77
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


Oh Wow! Thanks for those definitions, because they are so different from each other. You can be a liberal as a group or as a person, you are still saying someone is part of a group by labeling them as part of the group of liberals. You are also insisting that they are liberal. When they might not be. It is up to them to prove you right or prove their points for them. They may not even know they are liberal!


umm, yes, they are very different.

Reading comprehension goes a long way.

To describe a group based on fact is a label. To theorize about a group and claim that all with said label are the same, is generalizing. It isnt that tough.

Here, ill give you an example.

You lie. Therefore, i label you a liar.

Now, if i were to say that all who share your political views are liars, that would be a generalization.



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


no labels aren't set in stone they change over time, and especially if those facts are wrong but the person thinks they are right.



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by jjf3rd77
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


no labels aren't set in stone they change over time, and especially if those facts are wrong but the person thinks they are right.


You are correct, however, there is a factual backing to those labels. When a person like you says "all liberals support terrorism", it cannot be backed up by fact.
A label can certainly change, but a generalization is always wrong. Period.



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by Sahabi
 


I see your point and I myself do admit my faults, but most people do not do this.

I think the left hide it more. That is a generalization and a label. I can back it up if people want me to.



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by jjf3rd77
reply to post by Sahabi
 


I see your point and I myself do admit my faults, but most people do not do this.

I think the left hide it more. That is a generalization and a label. I can back it up if people want me to.


nope, that is just a generalization. It doesnt matter what you back it up with. It is a statement that cannot be proven.



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


in that context sure a generalization is wrong, but saying that all generalization is always wrong is of course wrong because you just generalized!!!!!! See how hard it is not to do so?



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by jjf3rd77
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


in that context sure a generalization is wrong, but saying that all generalization is always wrong is of course wrong because you just generalized!!!!!! See how hard it is not to do so?



Im not saying it isnt hard not to do so. I am saying people need to be aware of the difference. Consciousness of the problem is the first step to solution.



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


up there you go again, saying there is a problem, and now there needs to be a solution? Isn't that generalization. As the OP I think that it is part of human life, yet you feel that it is a problem needing to be fixed by society, so people don't do this anymore. It can't be done, only on an individual basis, in small quantities and hope it continues to grow.

I know I am generalizing and labeling and not afraid to admit it, it doesn't necessarily mean I am a liar. Are you willing to admit the same thing?
edit on 26-12-2011 by jjf3rd77 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 04:07 PM
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I think being on a conspiracy forum will always mix fact with fiction and opinion (generalization) some people will believe it and others won't (labeling and generalization). And I think people do this often in real life too, because they want to believe in something so much.

It also doesn't help when dealing with things like religion and politics where its difficult to distinguish between fact and fiction.
edit on 26-12-2011 by jjf3rd77 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by jjf3rd77
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


up there you go again, saying there is a problem, and now there needs to be a solution? Isn't that generalization. As the OP I think that it is part of human life, yet you feel that it is a problem needing to be fixed by society, so people don't do this anymore. It can't be done, only on an individual basis, in small quantities and hope it continues to grow.




just like in your other thread, round and round you go, making no actual points.

Anything that spreads negativity is a problem, in my opinion (happy that i qualified it?)

It is OBVIOUS that this thread, and my responses in it, are specifically directed toward labeling and generalizing about groups of people, not about semantics.

I never said i wanted people not to do it anymore. I simply pointed out the ignorance of doing it. I have been around on this earth far too long to be fool enough to think that ignorance and hatred (which is what generalizations spawn) will ever be stopped.

Far too many people are far too comfortable with it...hell, seems many advocate for it.
edit on 26-12-2011 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by jjf3rd77
I think being on a conspiracy forum will always mix fact with fiction and opinion (generalization) some people will believe it and others won't (labeling and generalization). And I think people do this often in real life too, because they want to believe in something so much.

It also doesn't help when dealing with things like religion and politics where its difficult to distinguish between fact and fiction.
edit on 26-12-2011 by jjf3rd77 because: (no reason given)


opinion is not the same as generalization. I find it worrisome that you havent bothered to figure out the meaning of the words you created a thread about.



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 04:11 PM
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reply to post by jjf3rd77
 

It's not so hard to determine when something is racist, or what is a good or bad label..

A racist comment is simply the baseless assertion that all people of a particular origin, or a particular skin color, or any other particular trait, have at least one negative aspect that they all share, and is not shared by people from different origins or skin colors or any other particular trait. For example, all black people are retards, is a racist comment. All black people stink is a racist comment etc. All white people are racist, is also a racist comment. It relies on the universal superiority of the one making the claim just on the basis of a specific trait and is inherently degrading to that particular race as a whole. If someone says, on average black people have a lower IQ than white people, then that is not a racist comment, because that has been verified scientifically and is not baseless. Another example.. To say that black people have a better track record in sports than white people, is not racist because that track record actually exists.. But the moment you start individualizing and using the group as evidence, you're being a racist. So.. To conclude that you as white person are smarter than another black person is a racist comment, because you've taken an average and made it an absolute.. To conclude that you are better at sports than your white friend is a racist comment for the same reason.

And the difference between a good and bad label is even more easy.. A good label is accurate, a bad label is not xD So calling someone a racist is a good label if the person says "I'm white and you're black so therefore I'm better than you", no matter how hard they deny it.. Calling someone a racist because they said "on average white people have a higher IQ" is a bad label, because it does not represent reality.. Another example.. If someone says he's a Christian and argues politely, calling him a bigot is a bad label.. If someone is an atheist and claims to know everything better and bashes everyone who disagrees with his views, a bigot is a perfectly fitting label.

So in short, labels on themselves are not good or bad. It's how they are used that determine their value.



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


apparently not since you generalized me and labeled me as being hateful and ignorant, or at least insisted that I am.
I guess you like to do it too!

But as stated in my OP I am not bothered by it. I know that there will be always people who disagree with me and those that will call me names I am not. It's up to others to realize the same thing!



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by jjf3rd77


I know I am generalizing and labeling and not afraid to admit it, it doesn't necessarily mean I am a liar. Are you willing to admit the same thing?
edit on 26-12-2011 by jjf3rd77 because: (no reason given)


As i have said all along, EVERYTHING has a label.

No i dont admit that i buy into generalizations. I may slip from time to time and use them in my posts, but i certainly dont buy into them. I have seen enough of this world to know that there is not one single group that represents the beliefs and interests of every single person in that group.

Another example. Based on our exchanges, you label me as a liberal, terrorist supporter.

But I am pro-gun, and Anti-violence. I despise violent aggression, regardless of who it comes from. I vote independent.

Now, is your generalization about me true? or did you assume things about me based on the label that you stuck upon me?



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by vasaga
 


I agree that its all word play, but it gets messier as you go around the world. You have people who for the majority of the population right here in the US have facts to back up that America is or has been the greatest nation in the world, yet you have others who share that same generalization with their own country and they use different facts to back their statement up. So, should Iranians not use the statement that Iran is the best country in the world in America because then, they might be labeled as terrorists?



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by jjf3rd77
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


apparently not since you generalized me and labeled me as being hateful and ignorant, or at least insisted that I am.
I guess you like to do it too!

But as stated in my OP I am not bothered by it. I know that there will be always people who disagree with me and those that will call me names I am not. It's up to others to realize the same thing!


And where did i call you hateful and ignorant? There you go again, throwing blind accusations. Can you discuss things WITHOUT making crap up?

And another problem with your accusation: if i label you, as an individual, based on your words and actions, that is, again, a label. If i say "you are a conservative, and therefore you hate freedom and love death", that is a generalization.

Getting it yet?

edit on 26-12-2011 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 04:20 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


Anti-violence itself is a generalization, because you believe that everyone can and should get along.

Pro-gun is easier label because it deals with certain physical object and US gun laws.

There but there both labels and generalizations because of what you are and what you believe



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by jjf3rd77
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


Anti-violence itself is a generalization, because you believe that everyone can and should get along.

Pro-gun is easier label because it deals with certain physical object and US gun laws.

There but there both labels and generalizations because of what you are and what you believe


1)False. I dont like aggressive violence, therefore i am against it. Where in that statement does it say that i think we all can and should get along? You are generalizing, based on the fact that i label myself anti-violence.

2)Pro-gun is, again, a label. No generalization there.

Sorry kiddo, but neither of those things qualify as a generalization (although your response does). You really need to learn the meaning of the terms if you are going to argue them.



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