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The Conspiracy Against Labeling:

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posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 02:35 PM
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Labeling: Why can't we label? Everyone is a part of a group. We are all ATS members and most of us are not ashamed to be called that on here, maybe outside the internet we are... Billions of people are part of some sort of religion. Many devout religious people are not ashamed to be called so. Yet I hear many people call for no labels. Many people say, they do not want to be linked to Democrat or Republican but still go watch the mainstream news or Fox News at home and then end up voting for some Democrat or Republican sometime in their life. If you are Caucasian you are labelled as white (even sometimes on official documents), if you are African America you are labelled as black because this is the color of your skin! I don't see it as racist, I see it as proper classification.

Labels, I think are an integral part of society! We need them. Of course, it can be overdone and way too generalized. Even then, it tends to be done because how else will people be able to talk about each other? Don't get me wrong, I love freedom and individualism, but no labels automatically changes when you talk about more than one person, even sometimes when describing an individual. Or a group of people! Oh no that's label too! See how hard it is not to generalize or to lump people together into a group?

You can go around screaming "no labels" all you want, but someone, somewhere in your life is going to put a label on you. I have been called many things that I am not, and the sooner people realize that they will be called names in their daily life the sooner they can understand that it shouldn't affect them so much.

I have found that the people who don't want to be called labels generally are cowards who don't want to stick up for anything and love to whine and complain about stuff. This was seen all too clearly at OWS and the infamous V for Vendetta Masks. They ask questions, which cannot really be answered, so then they run and cry when nobody answers them perfectly. They want idealistic changes when they do not live in an idealistic world so then they try to make everyone the same by spouting off about not labeling things!

Is the No Labeling Conspiracy, a puny attempt by liberals to make everyone feel special? These same people usually want what's "best" for the whole of society, but even that's lumping everyone into a group, insisting that everyone wants the same thing as everyone else!

Furthermore, I never hear the right wing of this country complain about something so unimportant as labels. Most are proud to be called Christian, Patriotic and even Rich. Some even admit to being racist--in a sense. These are all labels!!! I always hear the left wing say, you can't say Merry Christmas, you can't call someone black, you can't talk about how poor someone is. It might offend someone. Now, maybe a few people are uncertain of their monetary status or religious devotion but...

I find most people get upset about labeling when the so-called "accuser" gets it absolutely 100% right! But then again, calling someone an accuser for labeling you (probably right) is also labeling! I was just wondering what anybody's thoughts on this was?
edit on 26-12-2011 by jjf3rd77 because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 02:48 PM
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I dislike labeling because it involves judgement. If you are to have a knowledgeable and rational discussion, labeling people has no place. If I say I have doubts about evolution, I'm immediately labeled a creationist or Christian or whatever, while I'm not. I'm neither a creationist nor an atheist nor a theist. People have trouble with that, but that's how it is, and no one has the right to tell me what I am or am not if I say that I'm not, provided what I say doesn't contradict my actions. If people say they are not bigots, but then turn around and insult others just because they gave a different opinion, the one who does the action has the issue, because that action is the exact definition of the word. There needs to be a distinction between the definition of something, and an indirect indication. People often use indirect indications to judge people, and that is annoying as hell, not to mention dangerous.

Needing labels in specific things does not mean that we should go around labeling everybody. For example the label "conspiracy theorist" is purely based on ridiculing a person, so that other people who see that that person has been associated with such a label, will deem that person crazy and delusional, a social outcast and a moron, and therefore no one should believe what that person says. If you look closely, a single label suddenly ingrained a whole list of negative labels about someone, and this all damages any type of intellectual discussion that one hopes to have. Sure, labels might have its uses, but in general, they are not used for any beneficial purpose, but for ridicule and personal attacks, and if that's the primary way, labels have no place.

For a website that wants to "deny ignorance", whatever that means, labels have no place. If people wish to label themselves, that's fine, and then someone else is allowed to use it for discussion purposes only, but if someone says he is not something, or does not believe something, and other people insist that he is/does, there is no way there will be any progress in eliminating any sort of ignorance, and will only cause personal attacks on the long run.



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by jjf3rd77
 


IMHO All of what you have referred to was conjured up by TPTB on both ends to make the people of this wonderful planet grow farther and farther apart. None of this will ever end until we all realize that we are 1. We are all different manifestations of possible outcomes of "The Creator". We are here to experience what it's like to play the role we are in. Instead of doing so however, we have been tricked into fighting each other- this keeps us separate, distracted and powerless.

If one day we all woke up and actually realized why we are right now living in such a cruel world, we would see that we are the cause. Not TPTB, for we allow them to do what they do to us all.

And to all those who label people places and things, and all those who oppose it to their very core: Change your reality if it bothers you so much, or change your perception- whichever is the root of your problem...

I love you all



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by vasaga
 


So you say people are not allowed to label you a creationist conspiracy theorist? Isn't that against the freedom of speech? How will you stop someone from calling you that?

How about instead of just screaming no I am not this, just talk to your accuser about why this is not so, and explain it to them in simple words they can understand. Maybe ask some questions that will stump them, if they are so smart and so sure of themselves. And Yes, I agree there are questions and holes in the theory of evolution.

Usually, labeling is meant as an insult and as long as you can prove that its either a good thing to belong to the group label placed on you, or that that person is wrong than you might get off. Now, some people will never change their minds and will always see you as such, but that's life! I don't feel it important to explain myself to bigots who will never change their minds, that's pointless!



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 02:57 PM
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reply to post by ItanimuliiluminatI
 


Lolz are you high? First off saying we are all one insists that everyone is the same and that we all want whats best for society, when most don't and are not! And that's a label!


Second, TBTB is a label too!



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 02:59 PM
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You just made broad assumptions of the characters of people you do not know and never will meet. You just created a prejudice... a pre judgement based on nothing but assumptions, your personal opinion, and your personal emotions. You just created separation in your own mind of 'us versus them' and 'me versus you.' You allowed ego to trick you.

Depending on density or vibration you will see the different colors of the spectrum. When people fool themselves into thinking one color is separate, different, lesser, greater, or superior to another color, they close themselves out of infinite unity and never realize all color are aspects of the true light. Some never see or understand light, but instead focus on separating it into different colors.

Your OP is a great example of why labels are detrimental to love and unity.

May Peace be upon you my friend.


edit on 12/26/11 by Sahabi because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by jjf3rd77
 


I am not entitled to say what people can and can't say. They can say whatever they want and I can't stop anyone from saying what they want, but there's a difference between a founded argument, and just baseless nonsense spouting. I'm mostly referring to what is justifiable and what is not, and where labeling has a place, and where it doesn't. People can still do it if they wish, but it's not something that is productive nor supporting of rationality. Blindly labeling people has no productive purpose.

You talk about explaining, but I'm pretty sure you know that people will pretend to already understand without them needing or listening to your explanation, or simply repeat the same thing over and over. What would you do when explaining doesn't work? You already explained that, you don't see it as important to explain yourself to bigots. What happens now? No rational discussion. No progress. No understanding. Nothing. It's a pure stalemate, and that's the issue..

I basically just repeated my prior post, but just in different words.



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 03:14 PM
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reply to post by vasaga
 


So people can label and can't people will either see it as you do or see it as they do. It's the way the world works and there isn't a whole lot you can do about it! So why should we change it especially since such a small portion of the planet will listen to reason and logic for everything.



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 03:14 PM
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The thing with them is that they judge you for being judgmental.


If you probe more deeply, they are "against labels" only when it concerns things they happen to disagree with. Humans without labels are one in a trillion and if you probe deeply you can bring out their labels and judgments, which they are merely repressing.



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
The thing with them is that they judge you for being judgmental.


If you probe more deeply, they are "against labels" only when it concerns things they happen to disagree with. Humans without labels are one in a trillion and if you probe deeply you can bring out their labels and judgments, which they are merely repressing.


Exactly! Hey wait, you just labeled they as they. EVIL!!!!!!


If you can describe someone without labeling you are either a genius or the individual is non-existent. As there is not 1 trillion humans in the universe (that we know of hehe) Isn't human a label?
edit on 26-12-2011 by jjf3rd77 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by jjf3rd77
 


I'm not saying people can and can't label.. I'm saying there needs to be a good foundation for the labeling to have any sort of merit.. In other words, I'm not against labeling.. I'm against labeling for the purpose of promoting logical fallacies.. I don't see why this is so hard to understand...................................



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by Sahabi
 


Labels against peace and unity??

Does everyone want peace and unity?

Am I your friend? All labels!



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by jjf3rd77
Isn't human a label?




Hilarious.



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by vasaga
 


Well with freedom comes abuse of those freedoms and many many people will abuse it to the max especially with the comfort and anonymity of the internet. If I assume something such as this thread and others I've made, I back it up with examples and facts.

I don't know how you can convince an illogical person to become logical. If you know they aren't going to change why bother? Unless if you think everyone can change which is I think complete nonsense.
edit on 26-12-2011 by jjf3rd77 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


Glad you thought so!



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 03:33 PM
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Everything has a label. Everything.

Where the problem comes in is when those labels become generalizations and accusations, instead of factually based.

Saying "you are a liberal' is a label.

Saying "all liberals support terrorism' is a generalization.

See the difference?



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


But saying all liberals are terrorists is a label too! Saying you are a liberal is generalization. There isn't much of a difference.



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by jjf3rd77
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


But saying all liberals are terrorists is a label too! Saying you are a liberal is generalization. There isn't much of a difference.


No, it isnt. It is a generalization.

label:

2. A descriptive term; an epithet.


generalization:

1. a principle, theory, etc., with general application

Text


to label something is to identify or describe it based on fact. To generalize is to group things together based on theory.

one is fact. the other, opinion.



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by jjf3rd77
 

Well this is slowly becoming another issue.. To what degree is freedom of speech truly free? I mean, if I post that I think tomorrow someone should blow up the white house, I'll suddenly have the FBI at my doorstep. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from the consequences. People believe that they can say whatever they want whenever they want without any consequences, and that is simply not true. And that's where the issues arise. Everything that is being said has consequences, particularly in the material word.

That does not mean that there are things you are not free to say, however, it does mean that you should be aware of what the consequences are and make a viable judgement if saying what you want to say is worth it, or even better, if you can justify it. But in general, most people don't do this. To give an example, imagine if tomorrow Obama says "Ok, I have freedom of speech, so, I will say that China is the worst country ever and if it was my choice I would destroy them right now with a nuclear bomb". Is he free to say it? Well, yes.. Are the consequences worth it? Probably not.. Is that comment justifiable? Probably not.. And the same thing should apply to labeling, but, people don't do this. That people don't do this does not mean that we should promote blind labeling, nor remove all labeling. Both are completely ludicrous. The responsibility lies within the individuals to make themselves aware, and not some arbitrary label rule that you think I'm making up. The universal foundation is simply personal awareness.



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


Oh Wow! Thanks for those definitions, because they are so different from each other. You can be a liberal as a group or as a person, you are still saying someone is part of a group by labeling them as part of the group of liberals. You are also insisting that they are liberal. When they might not be. It is up to them to prove you right or prove their points for them. They may not even know they are liberal!



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