is there such a thing as a non-religious oriented war?

reply to post by rubbertramp


Well, in my opinion, you cannot affect anything by attacking the bottom of the pyramid. To me, that's just a waste of time. I don't intend to push that belief on anyone but that's just the way I see it. I'm open to reason , but very jaded at this point. War changes alot of things. It just pisses me off how well-perpetuated the myths of war are. I don't mean to take it out on any individual but it does happen. Apologies for any offences that may have been had throughout any of my posts in this thread.

I think Vietnam and Korea were AntiColonial/Marxist/Eastern Powers vs. Colonial/Capitalist/Western powers about whose views were to dominate the world and who was going to run it. There was some peacocking for the world and chest-bumping and trying to intimidate the enemy as well, looking strong and not to be screwed with in his eyes. There were nationalistic and anti-colonial elements to both clashes.

Maybe Vietnam, during the period 1945-1954 maaaybe you could look to some religious elements as the 2/3 level cause. I believe nationalism and anti and pro-colonialism wrapped in religion would be a more mature understanding of this conflict rather than "religious" though. Regardless certainly the U.S. war had nothing to do with religion and pure Cold War Real Poltik.

War deals with fellow men. Religion deals with fellow men and God. They inevitably clash when it comes to war.

Doesn't matter if the war was or was not religiously linked. All wars inevitably become religiously linked, because men of faith inevitably get sucked into them.

Originally posted by xXxinfidelxXx
reply to post by rubbertramp

 

Well, in my opinion, you cannot affect anything by attacking the bottom of the pyramid. To me, that's just a waste of time. I don't intend to push that belief on anyone but that's just the way I see it. I'm open to reason , but very jaded at this point. War changes alot of things. It just pisses me off how well-perpetuated the myths of war are. I don't mean to take it out on any individual but it does happen. Apologies for any offences that may have been had throughout any of my posts in this thread.

no problem. no ofense was taken, i just wanted to know what you actually meant.
i do fully understand your pov, but, like the present day wars, i do lay a bit of blame on those fighting them, not just the politics, religion, resources that are the reason for the wars.
i'd say some enter the war on a few different reasons.
family tradition.
killing muslims, who so many still believe want us dead on a general basis. not just the extremists but all.
etc....
what ever the reason they go to war, most are clueless about the true reasons, which i think are numorous.
resources, control of babylon, establishing dominence in the region, protection of israel etc....
if those fighting the wars would wake up and see the big picture than maybe less would be available as cannon fodder.
tptb could not get us into the wars if there wasn't so many willing to fight said wars.

reply to post by rubbertramp


I'd say a huge majority of wars are launched because of the lust for money, not religion.

Originally posted by rubbertramp

Originally posted by theRhenn
reply to post by rubbertramp

 

Incorrect. The Civil War was definatly fought for other reasons than religion. Cotton to be the main reason. Succession from the union by the southern states... Even slavery would be a reason before religion when you're speaking about the civil war.

i'm not arguing any of what you just said.
i'm only adding that what we are not taught is that the 2 different sides were 2 different sects of christianity.
did you read the link i provided above?
from the beginning of this thread i have not argued points like you just made.
only that there is more to it.
there is definately entities that get people to war with each other, but it's those who do the warring that are usually divided by religion.

So what? The question of the OP was NOT whether or not people with religious affiliation participate in wars, but if there have been any wars fought that haven't began/originated because of religion. Huge difference. Christians may have taken part in the Civil War, but that doesn't mean by default that the war was fought because of Christianity.

Hi, war questionners.

Is there such a thing as a non-religious oriented war?

The reason($) of war changed with time. Soooooooooo the question is
not well compartmentalized enough.

What we could answer is:
In the last 3 or 4 decades, DON'T you SEE that the rea$on of most wars
is the PETROLEUM / OIL in the ground ???? ! ! !

Blue skies

Originally posted by BlastedCaddy
The US Civil War

edit on 26-12-2011 by BlastedCaddy because: clarity

Agreed. Fought over State's Rights and Slavery Issues. Not religious in nature, or beliefs. All other wars fought over differences in religious beliefs, or for lack of same. Right now, in this corner, it's the Christian God, weighing in at infinite pounds, wielding many powers! And in the opposite corner, it's the Muslim God, weighing in at infinite pounds, wielding many powers! It's the fight of the century! And many good men and women, not to mention children, are going to die before it is over, if it will ever be truly over.

None of the wars in recent years have anything to do with religion. Religion is the scapegoat. If you can't see that, you have some investigating to do.

Religion or no religion, War is a construct of a difference of opinions and beliefs between two or more parties...Religion just seems to tie in well every time.

It depends on what you're definition of religion is. By my definition, war is always fought over the worship of something... be it God, Allah, money, oil, etc...

reply to post by rubbertramp


WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam weren't religious wars and the wars we're in today are viewd as religious only by the Islamic fundamentalists.

We've always had conflict that's why we have a word for peace. I think the only thing that will reduce (but not stop) humans fighting is a world government which itself would have an army to take on any rogue State. Alot of the big thinkers of the past have thought this as well. Or we find ourselves with a common enemy but where are you going to get one of them? An alien attack (which will most likely never happen) would be the only thing to stop us fighting each other.

Oil , minerals, resources . I am sure a lot of wars fought under the pretense of holy war, people are for the death and destruction of the world thinking it will usher in the end times of the bible.People will support that more than the government saying we are going to war to invade and secure resources.

I think the answer is a resounding..yes!

plenty of wars...power...power power...ahhh money..

but isn't that what religion is about?



ALL OF THEM

Christianity is about individual responsibility. a soldier can't hide behind his commander.

obama hasn't killed anybody personally. neither has bush. that is why they are alway's laughing and sleep like babies.

and it's also why over 30,000 troops are ready to blow their brains out when then get back to america.

he is just a man, equal to you in the eyes of the Lord. the only eyes that matter.

you can't say to the Lord, well obama told me to do it. that's a kindergarten excuse.

Wars have been fought since the beginning of mankind. In the early times, clear up until, say, the 7th, 8th centuries CE, many wars were fought for territory between feudinig neighbor tribes. Some were agrarian in nature, others were warriors by nature. Some wanted to stay put, others wanted to roam around. In my understanding, wars were often based on simply wanting access to the hunting grounds, fertile valleys, good fishing, sheltered areas, where people could safely build their homes and raise their children.

In my opinion, religion was often a handy "excuse" to incite the zealous to slaughter entire peoples (Romans against the Celts, Saxons and Danes, Angles, Germanic tribles... but the underlying desire of those waging it was to take over the territories they wanted for the space and the resources, and to eliminate competition.

So petty kings fought petty kings, and boundaries and allegiances changed around for centuries, until a Big king with more arms and soldiers came along and rounded them all up. Then neighboring big kingdoms or empires or dynasties said "hey! Look what those guys got! We can take them out, though, and make those petty kings over yonder our governors, but take a huge portion of their product for our own in "taxes". Let's go!" The Roman empire came to the British Island to attain lands for the Emperor. In order to get the land, they had to get rid of the inhabitants.

Also, don't forget the Trojan war....all for a pretty lady. Right?

Anyhow, wars are fought for all kinds of reasons, some of them simply bad character in a powerful guy who wanted more and more and more and more......for himself. Others, yes, were started to keep a crown in a certain family, or to gain access to fertile areas where there were more game animals, water, milder climates, etc.

It wasn't until the invaders discovered the "abhorrent" ritual practices of those who lived in the places they wanted to conquer were different than their own that they could also claim, "And you know what else? They are savages who worship the Sun (or whatever)!! Oh noes!! Isn't that appalling? Let's Kill them all!"

And then, the aghast masses and the reluctant-to-fight-and-kill were more inclined to "support" the war. On grounds of disgust.

Things are really not much different now than they have ever been. We just know about what's gong on, when in ancient times and early modern times, no one knew what was going on except the warlords and the vanquished. They might hear stories from traveling merchants about warring tribes of giant blue-eyed savages. But until those guys showed up, it was all sort of surreal.

Criminy!

Off the the top of my head, non-religious wars in US history...

* The American Revolution
* The War of 1812
* Texas War for Independence
* The Mexican-American War
* The Civil War
* The Spanish American War
* World War I
* World War II
* The Cold War
* Korean Conflict
* Vietnam War

You heard a false maxim, "All wars are religious" and never bothered to think about whether it was true or not?

Not even a suspicion?

So now that I have offered several examples--

Ask yourself what might be the motive and ideology manifest by a person making the claim that "All wars are religious" or "More people have been killed in the Name of God than for any other purpose?"

People lie to you-- you know?