Stop teaching about the holocaust so that children see Germany in a better light, says Lord Baker

Originally posted by calnorak
I don't think it should be stopped, but maybe placed later on in age.

I know back in 3rd grade we learned about Germany and the Holocaust, I had a negative feeling about the Nazi's.

It wasn't till I was stationed there that I opened my eyes. (And was kind of surprised to find out that they don't teach about WWII and the Nazi's until university, although in retrospect, I wouldn't want to admit that past either)

It needs to taught, but not to kids in grade schools.

3rd year high school maybe.

Then at least, the students can listen to all sides and decide which parts of history are accurate.

But then again, the agendas of psychopaths are slanted.

Do the same kids learn about the post ww2 expulsions of Germans from some European countries ?

The later stages of World War II, and the period after the end of that war, saw the forced migration of millions of German nationals (Reichsdeutsche) and ethnic Germans (Volksdeutsche) from various European states and territories, mostly into the areas which would become post-war Germany and post-war Austria. These areas included pre-war German provinces which were transferred to Poland and the Soviet Union after the war, as well as areas which Nazi Germany had annexed or occupied in pre-war Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, northern Yugoslavia and other states of Central and Eastern Europe.

The movement of Germans involved a total of at least 12 million people, with some sources putting the figure at 14 million, and was the largest movement or transfer of any population in modern European history.

Flight and expulsion of Germans (1944–1950)

Originally posted by mayabong

Interesting video. So are you saying that Lord Barker is like the Charles Manson?

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
Stop teaching it so people will forget the history. Makes the next one easier to implement.

Actually Holocaust education has not prevented another Holocaust from happening. The Rwanda genocide was horrible; neighbour turned against neighbour and they killed people with stones, machetes and fire. A couple of millions were killed in weeks!

Imo. the wrong way, everyone need to learn about the Holocaust,
as well as Colonialism, Imperialism, Stalinism, Communism!

But the Holocaust need a special Place because it was the first Time
where a "Toetungs-Machinery" was used!

It is a different case to kill someone in Affect than to use a well oiled Machinery for this,
the Holocaust is very unique and not bound to the Germans alone!

The Kids here in Japan do not learn much about the past
and even many of the older ones, born after 1945, know nothing
about the Japanese War-Crimes, this led to a Society
which may be not aware of the potential danger!

Never Forget!

Personally i think they should completely stop teaching history in school.

Even as a child in the fifth grade or so i listened to a teacher telling me about things that happened say 100 years ago and i was thinking to myself "i do no believe i have to sit here and listen to this."

This war...that war...1872 war, 1934 war and to think this happens in every damn country. No wonder were all nuts.

reply to post by Human0815


The way you put it sounds like dogma. The Rwanda genocide resulted in the murder of nearly a million people in a matter of weeks.

Efficient machine or not, the genocide in Rwanda was far more prolific in the period it happened. An awareness of the Holocaust did not help the victims in Rwanda. The American had intelligence that the killing was going to happen. The French security services were all over Rwanda egging on the francophone Hutu to purge their anglophone Tutsi neighbours.

When the mass murdering erupted, special forces types went to have a look, Clinton was aware and so were the EU states but the Rwandan Holocaust was allowed to continue.

It is far better to raise kids in our schools as ethical and moral human beings taught about altuism, justice, the social contracts, being critical thinkers and how to object to injustices around them like bullying.

Teaching the Holocaust did not stop the Rwanda Holocaust.

Originally posted by buster2010
Besides the holocaust happened almost 70 years ago it's time to get over it and move on.

I'm all for 'moving on' but to deny it happened and to downplay what happened is the first step towards repeating it. Don't sugar coat the past. Teach it as the truth it is so that it doesn't happen again. Just don't dwell on it. Look forward.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by buster2010
Besides the holocaust happened almost 70 years ago it's time to get over it and move on.

I'm all for 'moving on' but to deny it happened and to downplay what happened is the first step towards repeating it. Don't sugar coat the past. Teach it as the truth it is so that it doesn't happen again. Just don't dwell on it. Look forward.

I agree with the accounts of what happened and accept mainstream perspectives but dont agree with the ""Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." History should be more of an elective type class like wood shop, more like a hobby type thing. Even still, no way we can forget history when it is easily accessible on history channel etc. all over the internet.

Worst part is all over the internet and forums thing is...we are NOT looking forward when all we talk about is the past.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by buster2010
Besides the holocaust happened almost 70 years ago it's time to get over it and move on.

I'm all for 'moving on' but to deny it happened and to downplay what happened is the first step towards repeating it. Don't sugar coat the past. Teach it as the truth it is so that it doesn't happen again. Just don't dwell on it. Look forward.

Are they denying that happened? No they are not they are just not teaching it. And seeing how it has been taught since it happened and holocausts have happened even though it is taught in schools then learning about it doesn't stop it from happening. Like I said it's time to get over it and move on.

I am a holocaust revisionist/denier but I have learned that you just cant talk to some people about this, so I no longer bring up historical facts. Instead I focus on the political implications if the holocaust. There is no denying that the holocaust is taught with a political angle. There are about 15 million jews in the world, half of which live in israel, so why teach 6 billion people all over the world about it? Why not the rwanda genocide? Rather than trying to explain to people that concentration camps existedbut the majority died from typhus and not gassings, its easier to point out how holocaust denial is a crime in certain countries like france. That way you get people to focus on the modern politics of it and leave the past where it lies.

Originally posted by buster2010
Are they denying that happened? No they are not they are just not teaching it.

Not teaching = forgetting the lessons of the past.
Not teaching = first step to watering down the truth of what happened.
Not teaching = slippery slope to holocaust denial by those not taught about it.

And seeing how it has been taught since it happened and holocausts have happened even though it is taught in schools then learning about it doesn't stop it from happening.

The fact that holocausts happen is a poor excuse to ignore the truth about them.

Like I said it's time to get over it and move on.

Like I said ... teach the truth about it so it isn't forgotten and lessons eventually can be learned,
AND move forward. Both can and should be done.

Originally posted by filosophia
Ithe majority died from typhus and not gassings, .

Would you please provide some links to back up what you said on this? And even if the majority of the people did die from diseases in the camps .. the fact is that the Nazis put them in the camps to begin with and they wouldn't have been there and wouldn't have died if the Nazis hadn't rounded them up. Either way ... the were innocent people who died miserable deaths due to the Nazi death machine.

But please ... give some evidence to support your statement.
I'd like to see it. Thank you.

reply to post by buster2010


Really???

So my cousins grandmother is sitting alive and well right now with tattoos on her arm, who lost her whole entire family to Auschwitz, who survived Auschwitz herself, should just get over it?

Troll.

reply to post by filosophia


The Difference between Rwanda and the Holocaust is the Planning and the Logistic!

The "normal" Population of Germany was part of it, nearly every one.
From the Postmen up to the SS-Butcher,
from the Kindergarten until the Intelligentsia!

They started 1933 and nearly finished with the "Endloesung",
nearly 12 Years of Persecution, Exclusion and Discrimination!

Rwanda is also very long-lasting, afaik already before the French started
a Colony with new Borders which created even more trouble,
we can see this a little bit like Minority against Majority,
the poor against Corruption and abuse of Power!

And yes, they (former Imperialists) knew that this (Rwanda) will happen long time in Advance
and they even grant political Asylum to some of the Genocide Initiators!
(Germany, GB and France)

Originally posted by Human0815

The Difference between Rwanda and the Holocaust is the Planning and the Logistic!

Are you suggesting that Africans do not plan and have logistics?

The Rwandan genocide was coordinated at a national and local levels using a false flag event, the assissination of the president, radio broadcasts, the activation of local party activists and the deployment and distribution.

All the above are moot points in this debate.

Genocide is genocide.

The "normal" Population of Germany was part of it, nearly every one.
From the Postmen up to the SS-Butcher,
from the Kindergarten until the Intelligentsia!

Exactly the same thing in Rwanda; all levels of society were involved in the Rwandan Holocaust. Mind you, I don't think all of German society was involved in the Holocaust. The Nazis were secretive about the extermination.

They started 1933 and nearly finished with the "Endloesung",
nearly 12 Years of Persecution, Exclusion and Discrimination!

Same thing in Rwanda and you answered your own point below.

Rwanda is also very long-lasting, afaik already before the French started
a Colony with new Borders which created even more trouble,
we can see this a little bit like Minority against Majority,
the poor against Corruption and abuse of Power!

And yes, they (former Imperialists) knew that this (Rwanda) will happen long time in Advance
and they even grant political Asylum to some of the Genocide Initiators!
(Germany, GB and France)


You are correct on a number of points but you are also trying to differentiate between the Jewish Holocaust and the Rwandan Holocaust.

There is no difference between the suffering of different races; human suffering is a universal experience.

There is nothing unique about the Jewish Holocaust. We have had many holocausts since then.

reply to post by Helixer

Teaching the Holocaust did not stop the Rwanda Holocaust.

you are not seeing the forest because you're focused on the trees. one can counter your argument by saying that NOT teaching about the genocide of the Armenians by the Turks, led to the holocaust
the Rwandan_Genocide [ a holocaust is a burnt sacrifice, your slapdash use of the word has a watering down effect] were the work of the government with the assistance and aiding and abetting of colonialists, note how no mention of intelligence agencies [other than a visit for observation purposes by US "special" forces] is made.

The Rwandan Genocide was the 1994 mass murder of an estimated 800,000 people in the small East African nation of Rwanda. Over the course of approximately 100 days (from the assassination of Juvénal Habyarimana and Cyprien Ntaryamira on April 6) through mid-July, over 500,000 people were killed, according to a Human Rights Watch estimate.[1] Estimates of the death toll have ranged between 500,000 and 1,000,000,[2] or as much as 20% of the country's total population. It was the culmination of longstanding ethnic competition and tensions between the minority Tutsi, who had controlled power for centuries, and the majority Hutu peoples, who had come to power in the rebellion of 1959–62 and overthrown the Tutsi monarchy.[3]

In 1990, the Rwandan Patriotic Front (RPF), a rebel group composed mostly of Tutsi refugees, invaded northern Rwanda from Uganda in an attempt to defeat the Hutu-led government. They began the Rwandan Civil War, fought between the Hutu regime, with support from Francophone Africa and France,[4][5] and the RPF, with support from Uganda. This exacerbated ethnic tensions in the country. In response, many Hutu gravitated toward the Hutu Power ideology, with the prompting of state-controlled and independent Rwandan media.

As an ideology, Hutu Power asserted that the Tutsi intended to enslave the Hutu and must be resisted at all costs. Continuing ethnic strife resulted in the rebels' displacing large numbers of Hutu in the north, plus periodic localized Hutu killings of Tutsi in the south. International pressure on the Hutu-led government of Juvénal Habyarimana resulted in a cease-fire in 1993. He began to implement the Arusha Accords.

The assassination of Habyarimana in April 1994 set off a violent reaction, during which Hutu groups conducted mass killings of Tutsis (and also pro-peace Hutus, who were portrayed as "traitors" and "collaborationists"). This genocide had been planned by members of the Hutu power group known as the Akazu, many of whom occupied positions at top levels of the national government; the genocide was supported and coordinated by the national government as well as by local military and civil officials and mass media. Alongside the military, primary responsibility for the killings themselves rests with two Hutu militias that had been organized for this purpose by political parties: the Interahamwe and the Impuzamugambi, although once the genocide was underway a great number of Hutu civilians took part in the murders.

It was the end of the peace agreement. The Tutsi RPF restarted their offensive, defeating the army and seizing control of the country.

perhaps the holocaust wasn't taught in rwandan schools?
looks like a "successful formula" was being put into practice here


sweeping things under the rug never gets rid of the problem, which is the institutionalized psychopathy, endemic to the west , and reset firmly in place by crypto-nazis all over the West post WW II.

your keeping your head in the sand will not prevent a massacre in the US [it is coming],
but will aid it enormously.

whether your ignorance be real; or merely feigned, and agenda driven.

Children ALL over the world should be taught about the holocaust.

It's not about the jews, BUT about the horrific systematic murder of 6 million HUMANS within a short time, with the culprits not even batting an eyelid over it.

This is something EVERY child must know, to realise what terror we mankind are capable of, so that they start forming that aversion to murder during their formative years.

It would a sad day when humanity forget the holocaust, or sweeps it under the carpet, a pepertual stain upon our claim of modern civilisation, progress and evolution which will prove humbling for mankind in future.

reply to post by Helixer


But Rwanda happened afaik in a kind of explosion
after the kindling Process you have already mentioned
and the Holocaust happened as a well organized Plan
with a very well oiled Machine and was not target oriented on Jews only!

The Roma and the Sinti Tribes was Victims too,
as well as the mental Sick and Homo-Sexual s for example!

Those who forget the past, will be doomed to relive it. Santanya.
How true...Just take a look at the deliberate attempt to hide history that is unpalatable or not pc that has been taking place for many years.
We now have generation of people who believe all that they see on youtube and believe war is no more than an xbox game.
Oh dear..what a surprise they most certainly have coming.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Read more: wiki.answers.com...

sorry for the wiki as a source...just needed the source of the quote.

We must never forget to tell the tale of any war. They must be told-how else can you understand the world? This whole notion is ludicrous to me.