Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
I REFUSE to apologize for something I have absolutely no part in. If the U.S. government (and I mean CONGRESS) chooses to wage war on false pretenses then it is ALL ON THEM.

Also, why do you suppose that we would "destroy" them???? The U.S. has wanted Iran out of the picture for some time now, there's a very good reason we haven't attacked them yet...

Is it 'we' or 'them' you are confusing me

At least until Iran decides to bring in other middle eastern countries as alies, in their own war on Terror.

I promise you, if we go to war against Iran, it will not be pretty, especially since both sides believe they are fighting terror against their countries.

I do would not blame them for being pissed and fighting with all they have, I too would if I we were invaded by a corrupt government.

Originally posted by flexy123
Iran and their president/leader are violating basic human rights all the time.

Why don't you go over with your blue eyes and naivety...and "demonstrate" in front of their palace. I am sure they will understand.

While you are at it (in case you survived, that is)..you could also mention that it's "not cool" that Iran is going for the nuclear bomb and will have it this coming year.

Much luck, guys!

how did you know I have blue eyes?

personally, I think the idea of women being forced or convinced to wear a head covering is a violation of basic human rights... but I support their right to live and support their personal freedoms, I will also not judge or treat them differently for wearing one. They have the right to choose even if it costs them their life or safety. However.... WHY should America police them or their main religion?
This thread is actually about money and war, not exclusively about basic human rights and my visiting Iran... naivete? I think you mis-read me.

The American War Machine makes us look guilty by association. The whole free world knows, we as a nation don't love our politics, we despise them.

Having said that, nice post OP. I hope someone reads it in Iran before we lob some bunkers.

Sigh

Wars are not fought by "the people"...they are fought by goverments and power hungry men and women. I have a couple of friends from Iran who I met online. They are just like me...they like the same things I like, they worry about the same things I do. It's a shame BOTH of our goverments are doing what they do...they DO NOT represent THE PEOPLE of either country.

Wars and more Wars. Deaths and more deaths. A constant flow of blood unto the ground. It never stops. Just look at the History of Man.
We need reasons to War for we have given ourselves over to those who know they control us.
These who seek War serve not man.
They serve Abbadon the Angel of Death.
This Abbadon promises great Glory (riches) in exchange for a Blood Sacrifice.
Riches are what they wish, either in forms of Gold (wealth) or Land (resources).
Oh to willing is this Human Race to exterminate it's own.
There are so many reason's given it would be almost impossible to list them here that have been used in times past and present.
I have stood on this Planet for 50 years of awakening to have seen this to be terribly true. My Body may reside here in this here and now but it cannot wait for the day when all the Human Race see's that they are at fault.
There is no one particular to blame, only ourselves for allowing it to take place in the first place.
There is nothing to Fear but Fear itself and it turns out that in these days it is what the USA has become.
The USA is "the Federal Dept. of Eradication, Annihilation and Retaliation.
FEAR should be on the Dollar not God.
For how can a Nation say that they Love a God they can't see and not Love a Brother they can see?
After being aware for 50 years of the World I was implanted in I do realize this is not the Planet I would of wished to be on.
I am Brother from another Planet who was mistakenly placed here on this Planet which worships a God of Death.

This is what I am proud of and all you red blooded American Patriots are gonna hate what I am about to say and undoubtedly turn me in to the ones who will collect ones like me.

I had a Draft Card, the moment I had no representation I knew I would never have representation so I decided never to partake in Evil in any form and knew only that any Nation who demanded I commit Murder in their name and swear to their God a Flag was a true evil I would not commit myself to elect any of them thus eliminating me from Partaking of their Murders and Crimes.
I do know that it is illegal not to pay taxes which do cause murder so I am screwed in as far as having done so. But I don't wish to sit in a Jail cell with Bubba in my arse everyday. I am not a fighter of man, but a Lover of El Shaddi my Adonai. So I gave to Caeser what is Caeser's and to Adonai what is Adonai's. Caeser get's his taxes not my voice or my soul. My soul is reserved for my Adonai.

All the World is going to be at War and all the world's people will suffer much horror.
Sorry Iran, but you do realize that Israel has 400 Nukes and 70 Neutron Bomb's waiting for you don't you? It's called the Samson Option. The first Nuke or Chemical weapon that Hit's Tel-Aviv they go Nuclear on all who stand by your side in this the very near future.

Oh, I heard that the US will be the one's going over Iran while Israel will have it's troops in their homeland to defend the onslaught that is to come.
Can anyone say how long it will tke to bury the dead afterwards?
How bout 7 year's.

Might as well put your head between your legs and kiss your arse good-bye if any Nuke's are thrown cause we alone with one sub can take out the World.

Originally posted by Thermo Klein

This thread is actually about money and war, not basic human rights and my visiting Iran... naivete? I think you mis-read me.

Yes this thread is about money and war - and what you imply that we are the bad guys here and we need to apologize. Being an European, believe me my and MANY other people's stance on the US of A is not that great either, but you are wrong assuming that other countries are doing better.

Iran is not a saint, by a long-shot. The example with the human rights was to point this out. In your post you make your own country look like the devil...but allow yourself the luxury to close the eyes what the leaders in other countries do? How does that work?

And..Kat summed it up..i actually have even better experiences with REAL Muslims..for once back in Berlin where the whole district i lived in basically was Turkish with Muslims from Turkey..and now in Spain. My neighbors ARE Muslims. I can see in their windows right now, normal people who watch TV, eat..play like we do.

This is NOT about the people, all right. But this doesn't mean that their leaders are MAYBE not as insane as ours...and, 'scuse me, we know that MOST leaders in the middle-east are not "ticking right"..if you understand.

Why do you think does Iran want nuclear weapons so bad?

What bugs me the most, is you get members on here who are American, who give it "This British Empire atrocity, that British Empire atrocity". What America is doing now is no different to what the British done centuries ago, except now we are supposed to be living in modern, civilised times.

They wanted to test the effects of a nuclear device on a civilisation, Japan gave them that excuse, tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children died.

I don't know what the Vietnam war was about (nor do I care), but I know America was in the wrong, and tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children died.

They constantly stick their noses in the Middle East, and tens of thousands innocent men, women and children die.

Now they want to attack Iran, and I'm guessing tens of thousands innocent men, women and children will die.

The atrocities committed by my country pale in comparison, it disgusts me that my government so blindly follow. I take some small comfort in the fact that we are out for peace and don't shoot anything that moves, unlike some.

The worst part is, the American people are warm, caring people (for the most part), it's just a shame you let your government get away with strategic genocide.

Merry Christmas.

Quote from lonewolf19792000

You are wasting your breath if you think they care. Go over there wearing a shirt with an american flag on it and see what happens to you. They aren't going to give a damn what you are, wether youre a christian or not (and thanks for blaming us for this mess btw).

Start learning to say Allahu'a'ahkbar. Having no religion to them is worse than being a jew or a christian because you don't believe in the one true God.

It is my personal experience that you are wrong, my friend.

I am an American, born and raised in the states.

On a daily basis, I work with am exposed to people from many different places, with different cultures, different beliefs, and different traditions. This includes Persian people, some who were born and raised in the US, some born and raised in Iran, and some who spent time in both places growing up. This also includes Arab people, who are from places like Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Lybia, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon - again, some born and raised in the US, some abroad. This also includes people from Russia, Ukraine, Japan, China, El Salvador, Honduras, Mexico, Brazil, Cuba, Colombia, France, Switzerland, Italy, Turkey, Germany, England, Pakistan, Ethiopia, India.... these are just the people I see on a regular basis. There are many others, from many other places, that I have the privilege of working with too.

The ONE thing that I notice, above all, and the reason I love what I do - is that for the most part, everybody is pleasant to be around, and will treat you every bit as kindly as you treat them. They will be polite, they will laugh and joke with you, and they will express compassion regardless of where you come from or what you believe.

I said 'for the most part' because it is true, some people can be jerks. Some people can be rude. However, this can be said of any 'group' of people, and IN MY EXPERIENCE, the rude people are the minority no matter what 'group' you are referring to.

But, to get back to the topic, the people of Iran.

Read that line again.

THE PEOPLE of Iran.

Their culture is very different than our culture here in the States, but at the end of the day they too have families to take care of, and just like us they work hard to do so. They also like to eat food, listen to music, dance, have social gatherings, just like we do. They know what it means to struggle, to have problems, to feel pain and despair. They think and they feel and they too just want to live their lives in peace. They don't care if I am not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew. I am not interfering with THEIR religion, so why would they care? You say having no religion is worse, because then "you don't believe in the one true God" - but again, in my experience you are wrong about that. I've never been judged by any Iranian person I've ever met because of my religion or "lack thereof". I have been judged simply by my actions.

Quote from Thermo Klein

I'm curious how many Iranians you know? How many times you've visited Iran?

Have you ever sat in a room with a Muslim and a Jew and discussed holidays, daily life, education, medical benefits, what it means to wear a hijab or a burka?
(I have. My opinion is they are people just like I said in the OP)

I know several. I've never had the chance to visit Iran, but my Iranian friends have extended an open invitation for me to join any of them on a trip, and this is something we have discussed pretty seriously as of late. I would love to go, from the pictures and videos I've seen, Iran looks like a beautiful country.

I have indeed sat with Muslims, Jews, Christians, and others with other beliefs (all of us sitting together, yes) and had these kinds of discussions, among other topics too. We actually do it rather frequently. It is always interesting, and I share your opinion that they, we, I, you, are ALL people. And most people just want to live their life the way THEY want to live their life, they don't want to interfere with the way others live, and they don't want others to interfere with how they live. Live and let live. Simple enough, and people from all over the world can agree with it.

In conclusion, I truly hope that no war comes to the Iranian people, as no good can come from it, and many of the Iranian people have lived through war before and know this to be true. The Iranian people are people too, and though our cultures may be different, different doesn't mean bad and I believe we can all learn a lot from each other.

Iran is not Iraq. They will fight back a thousand fold what Iraq did. They are not a defenseless lamb going to the slaughter.