History of Palestine

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed

I'm not a fan of the UN because they're part of the group that helped form the illegitimate state of Israel, so please don't think I support them.

"Illegitimate state"?

What is it you think legitimizes a State?

Does it's parents have to be married when it is born or something?

This is why I dont like when people malign entire groups: Muslims, Blacks, Whites, Jews etc.

Look at this Rabbi, he too is dispelling the notion that Jews and Muslims have been fighting for ages.

Respect.

well then... so when is America going to give it's land back the natives?

no difference...

I sympathize with Israel. It's not just a one-way conflict. The surrounding countries are not innocent in any way. They all desire that piece of land. They will steal it (and have tried) from the Palestines if they have the chance. You forgot to mention in your time-line the invasions Israel fought off.

What I hate about Israel is the extreme orthodox religious movements that are taking over slowly.

Yay, another "let's ignore historical, archaeological, and anthropological facts" thread! I love these. I really do. Keep on spewing wrong, so that historians can identify you!

/TOA

reply to post by dontreally


Palestine was never a state with it's own proper form of government and everything, I agree with that.
But Palestine had an Arab majority, that lived there for more than 1500 years. Generation after generation. That itself gives them right in itself to be called the Arabs of Palestine, or the Palestinians as they are the majority (around 97% of the population, check my OP).

They had their own houses, their own farms and villages, their own culture, accent (and yes even Jordanian and Palestinian accents are different to an extent) and education. You can easily see that if you actually try and use the Internet to see what Palestine was like before the Zionists invaded it.

Just because the Modern State of Israel, has the same name as Ancient Israel, means nothing. Let's just consider it was called "Euro-Jew land". Doesn't all the authenticity just seem to die? That is because, Jews haven't been the majority in that land for over 2000 years! Just try and absorb that number, and try to count the number of generations that have been living there.

To see the answer for yourself, who pressured the UK to promise them the land in Palestine? It was the European Jews. Jews who were persecuted throughout Europe, so they decided to have their homeland in Palestine. A scheme by Arabs? Yes keep saying that to yourself, because the Arabs can never be right, all we want is to kill someone right?. The people of Palestine, who lived there for 1500 years somehow do not deserve to be called Palestinians because of what reason? They had their own currency, their own villages and owned over 97% of that land. I love how Jews complain about anti-Semitism, when the fact that to flee away from anti-Semitism, they had to flee from the Western nations and come to Palestine.

And to whoever else wants to use the pathetic Palestinians don't exist, which by the way makes you as bad as the Nazis, just ignore the fact that they exist, they can't exist, the millions exiled and kicked out of their own homes do not exist, the millions under siege in Gaza, treated like the Jews were under Nazis, with apartheid walls, cutting of electricity, water and food. Yes keep pretending they don't exist, and the millions around the Arab world in refugee camps, they don't exist. You feel better about your tax money going to the Zionist stooges now?

reply to post by nenothtu


What makes it legitimate? When the history of Modern Israel is simply that it was formed by force after the original owners of that land were evicted from their own country, ethnically cleansed, threatened to be eradicated, pushed into the sea, then it isn't quite legitimate. When it's settlements are illegal by the entire International Community, when it was formed under the Partition Plan by the UN in 1947, in which they bribed and threatened tons of small nations (whose votes all count) to vote "correctly".

When it's Prime Ministers were elected simply because they were part of the Jewish terrorist organisations that massacred the 400 Palestinian villages, including Deir Yassin, in which hundreds of innocent men, women and little children were killed simply to send out a message to the rest of it's inhabitants.

If that's legitimate, then by all all means.. WOW!


reply to post by The Old American


I never ignored any, you want studies?
Genetic studies bring new hope for peace between Jews and Palestinians
Palestinians are the closest cousins of Jews

Those studies count for nothing, most of the world are NOT living on the same land, that the same people lived on 2000 years ago. This whole thread is to point out the MODERN history (last few hundred years) of how Palestinians were robbed of their homes, when DOCUMENTED fact states that they owned 97% of that land, that most of you people state that they don't have claim to.

Let's not even discuss it in terms of Palestine-Israel, in terms of two different countries. I'll discuss it as documented fact that cannot be refuted, Arabs of Palestine lived in Palestine for 1500 years. Arabs of Palestine owned over 97% of that land. Arabs of Palestine, were kicked out and massacred.
Where's the legitimacy of that?

According
to Shabtai Teveth (one of Ben-Gurion's official biographers), Ben-Gurion
stated in an article published in 1918 that:


"Palestine is not an empty country . . . on no
account must we injure the rights of the inhabitants."

So the Jewish population in Palestine as of 1914 were under 8% of the total
population, which was much smaller than the Palestinian Christian Arab population. It should be noted that our source, Justine
McCarthy was quoted by many Israeli Jewish scholars
like Benny
Morris and Tom
Segev. In that regard, it's worth quoting one of the most ardent Zionists, Israel Zangwill,
who stated as early as 1905, that Palestine was twice as thickly populated as the
United States. He stated:


"Palestine proper has already its inhabitants. The pashalik of Jerusalem
is already twice as thickly populated as the United States, having fifty-two
souls to the square mile, and not 25% of them Jews ..... [We] must be prepared
either to drive out by the sword the [Arab] tribes in possession as our
forefathers did or to grapple with the problem of a large alien population, mostly
Mohammedan and accustomed for centuries to despise us." (Righteous Victims,
p. 140 & Expulsion Of The
Palestinians, p. 7-10)

Soon after the first Zionist Congress in Basel (Switzerland) in 1897, a Zionist
delegation was sent to Palestine for a fact finding mission, and to explore the
viability of settling Palestine with persecuted European Jews. The delegation replied back
from Palestine with a cable that stated:


"The bride is beautiful, but she is married to
another man." (Iron
Wall, p. 3)

Note that this is not used to prove that were people in Palestine, documented facts clearly tell of an Arab majority that has inhabited the land of Palestine for over 1400 years. I'm just showing it from the Zionists side.

reply to post by ghash

Palestine was never a state with it's own proper form of government and everything, I agree with that.
But Palestine had an Arab majority, that lived there for more than 1500 years. Generation after generation. That itself gives them right in itself to be called the Arabs of Palestine, or the Palestinians as they are the majority (around 97% of the population, check my OP).

Well maybe it's high time that people, REAL People, wake up for once in their lives.
Oh ... Not the phony psychopaths and psychotic manics !!! They are already awake.

The NORMAL people of this world are NOT psychopathic mental cases.

AND guess what ..... they are actually the majority too !!

Who's the joke really on ???

Perhaps the Palestinians have finally evolved into a real ethnic group..

After all, Israel did, after many centuries of "persecution".

Is it time to end the Palestinian "persecution" ????? I think so.

ANYBODY that thinks not might be a psychopath themselves.

Normal people ...... wake up NOW !!!!

reply to post by ghash


This is a relatively small minded approach when you only consider the last 130 odd years, what happened before then in that region?

So your saying that they have been living there for thousands of years? The ottoman empire, persians were a peace loving moment In time?

Your just justifying that its ok to take land by force... In that case, what's your problem with the jews?

reply to post by kykweer


I never said it was all peaceful and lovey-dovey. I said they were living there for centuries.
And I do not advocate taking of land by force, the Arabs did NOT take Palestine from the Jews. The Roman Empire kicked the Jews out, and then the Europeans kicked you out, now tell me again, where do the Palestinians fit into the puzzle where they should be tortured for living on a land for dozens of generations, simply because Jews of MIDDLE EASTERN ancestry (which most European Jews are not) used to live 2000+ years ago?

If you actually read on ancestry and the likes, as someone has suggested doing, the Palestinians are the closest cousins of the European Jews with Middle Eastern ancestry. Hence, they are the Jews that converted to Islam.

reply to post by ghash

Now tell me the exact population of the Jews in Ancient Israel, when did they last live there?
What does that have to do with anything?

Because a faithful remnant of Jews have stayed in the land since the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Layman's terms:

The Jews never left Israel.

Originally posted by Intrud3r
How can anyone believe in a God that creates so much death,havoc and suffering ? Yeh, JC must be really proud of israelis using white phosphor.

God didnt create this havoc, man did. Do not blame God for the evils of man.

And Jesus could have a much bigger beef with Israelis(Jews) than them using white phosphorous, that of course is said tongue in cheek as Jesus doesnt have a beef with anybody.

These threads are all the same:
1. Illegitimise Israel's right to exist
2. Ignore parts of history that confirm Israel's right to exist
3. Conclude that Palestine should replace Israel as it's really "their" land.

Doesn't leave much room for debate, now does it?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Yes, and nobody has ever denied that Jews have lived there since forever.
But how does that give them the right to massacre and take over?


reply to post by Dark Ghost


I honestly try, but when people claim that God wanted the Jews to massacre Palestinians, try to see it from my side, how is that by any chance acceptable in the world we live in?

reply to post by ghash

Yes, and nobody has ever denied that Jews have lived there since forever.
But how does that give them the right to massacre and take over?

The Jews have been massacred and been 'taken over' since 70 AD. The Jews never left the area of Israel/Judea.

Originally posted by ghash
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Yes, and nobody has ever denied that Jews have lived there since forever.
But how does that give them the right to massacre and take over?


reply to post by Dark Ghost

 

I honestly try, but when people claim that God wanted the Jews to massacre Palestinians, try to see it from my side, how is that by any chance acceptable in the world we live in?

1st off Judah was not in Israel lands to start with . so their claim to the lands of the house of Israel are null and voided

The Hebrew Bible describes constant warfare between the Jews and other tribes, including the Philistines, whose capital was Gaza.

Around 930 BCE, the kingdom split into a southern Kingdom of Judah and a northern Kingdom of Israel.

An alliance between Ahab of Israel and Ben Hadad II of Damascus managed to repulse the incursions of the Assyrians, with a victory at the Battle of Qarqar (854 BCE). However, the Kingdom of Israel was eventually destroyed by Assyrian king Tiglath-Pileser III around 750 BCE. The Philistine kingdom was also destroyed. The Assyrians sent most of the northern Israelite kingdom into exile, thus creating the 'Lost Tribes of Israel'. The Samaritans claim to be descended from survivors of the Assyrian conquest. An Israelite revolt (724–722 BCE) was crushed after the siege and capture of Samaria by Sargon II.

Assyrian King, Sennacherib, tried and failed to conquer Judah. Assyrian records claim he punished Judah and then left (Herodotus also described the invasion).

By showing the past 200 years, its deceptive. Try showing the past two to three thousand years, and youll find something far different than what you thought.

Originally posted by ghash

reply to post by nenothtu

 

What makes it legitimate?

The same thing that makes Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon legitimate.

When the history of Modern Israel is simply that it was formed by force after the original owners of that land were evicted from their own country, ethnically cleansed, threatened to be eradicated, pushed into the sea, then it isn't quite legitimate.

That is also the history of most of planet Earth, which means nearly all countries are "illegitimate" by that measure. In Israel, the "original owners" are Neanderthals (at least those are the earliest inhabitants I'm aware of, at Carmel and Kebara). We do not get to pick and choose which time era we speak of when we speak of "original owners". Palestinian Arabs are not "original owners", either. They took it from someone else, by conquest.

When it's settlements are illegal by the entire International Community,

The "settlements" are a separate issue than the country. People are using the "illegality" of the settlements to try to make the entire nation "illegal" by extension and association.

When it's Prime Ministers were elected simply because they were part of the Jewish terrorist organisations that massacred the 400 Palestinian villages, including Deir Yassin, in which hundreds of innocent men, women and little children were killed simply to send out a message to the rest of it's inhabitants.

I'm ready to disband the US as well, then. Presidents were elected from among a terrorist organization that drove British squatters into the sea after the British drove the "original inhabitants" off of their land. Let's disband the UK as well - they drove Roman squatters into the sea after the Roman squatters massacred the Celtic inhabitants, who massacred yet an earlier group of inhabitants.

Australia... China... Romania... Switzerland... Syria... almost everywhere on Earth has a similar history, some more recent than others, but still the same history.

reply to post by ghash


Your entire premise is BS that’s aside the fact that you pick and choose the information that helps your argument.

Without going into detail let me just say WHO CARES. I’m fed up of this back and forth, about who was there first. Obviously the Jews were if you go back in history beyond the date you gave us that fits your argument.

But that doesn’t change the current reality no matter how many posts you make on the subject.

Israel is a recognized state, with a majority of Jews and is one of the most powerful military nuclear forces in the world today. They are not going anywhere, DEAL with it...

The Palestinians on the other hand don’t have a state and are under Israeli rule. They could have had a state if their stupid Muslim neighboring states didn’t try to destroy Israel three times and lose (Tough Luck).
They could have also had a state if they stopped acting like their fellow Arabs stuck in the Middle Ages with primitive Islamic extremists leading them (Hamas).

If I were you I would focus on the Arab rising with its moderate voices and start a few threads about the civilian murders going on in Syria now instead (by yet Another Muslim Dictator).

I suggest you start using your brain to help Muslims in the Middle East get rid of these religious fanatics. Help Muslim Women receive equal rights and not get stoned to death for adultery like in Iran. Or help the Muslim who are murdered daily by dictators, stuck in third world poor countries because of their primitive Islamic leaders.

Dracula out

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
These threads are all the same:
1. Illegitimise Israel's right to exist
2. Ignore parts of history that confirm Israel's right to exist
3. Conclude that Palestine should replace Israel as it's really "their" land.

Doesn't leave much room for debate, now does it?

edit on 26/12/2011 by Dark Ghost because: (no reason given)

People like you are all the same:
- doesn't bother to learn true history(all sides)
- ""
-""

Try real hard and you mite just realize your way off the mark.

reply to post by gladtobehere


OMG! He is stark raving mad ANTI - SEMITE!!!! Probably Neo Nazi!!! He dared to oppose Zionist!

Common, where all the usual Israel protectors with you usual accusations of Antisemitism??? Nothing to say for a change? He doesn't qualify, does he? Call him mentally unstable then! Always a safe bet!