History of Palestine

I would just like to say, as a Brit that Im ashamed of the actions of the UK Govt over their handling of this entire situation. Giving away some ones elses land, to a bunch of people from Europe.
Palistine does exist.
( I had a dream last night and the spirit in the sky appeared. He said that I and all my children, forever more could have the USA. So Im off over there next week to claim my land. ) And to anyone who doubts my word? All I have to say oh ye men of little faith. The great spirit in the sky gave it to me.
;0)

Originally posted by illuminnaughty
I would just like to say, as a Brit that Im ashamed of the actions of the UK Govt over their handling of this entire situation.

Don't be. Like i said it would not fly without old, kind uncle Stalin.

reply to post by PURIFIER


And during the mandate period, the Brits tried, but not very successfully, to stem the flow of Jewish migrants..

We never really wanted the bloody land anyway and cost us a great deal of money and blood to try and keep the two sides apart, hence why we said "Sod it" and pissed off in `47.

Don't forget, Jewish terrorists were targetting British interests and soldiers to get them out so they could forcibly take over, as we were stopping them, which is exactly what they did when the mandate ended.

As an interesting side note (and proof that Arab soldiers aren't useless or that Israels victories over the Arabs was divinely ordained, as some like to claim), the only Arab formation to hold it's ground against the IDF was the Arab Legion. Trained and led by British officers. Had the other Arab armies had the same training, we wouldn't be having this discussion now and the "problem" would be solved.

reply to post by stumason


100% agreed. You see, in my line of work I happen to come across a lot of Nepalese who had British military training. Some serious dudes and very responsible and LOYAL workers.

So why can't the Arabs be content to see the jews have a tiny little bit of land to call their own?, their ancestral homeland that they never vacated or relinquished, a tiny scrap compared to the millions of sq miles that the Arabs have overun and conquered - (stolen if you prefer).

Are they not a 'people of the book' - fellow monotheists, Mohammed was certainly keen enough to be recognised as a prophet by them when he first started.

Did the UN and international community not grant the jews that land!? - have they not won it since by right of conquest?

Did the jews expelled from arab lands in 1948 not equate to the palestinians displaced from Israel? - a fair swap of populations.


The jews have been persecuted and hounded from one country to another since egyptian times, vilified, slandered, inquisited, pogrommed, holocausted, terrorised - by Roman Catholicism, Islam and the Nazis.


What is the matter with you all? - why do you hate the jews so much? - do you even know?

reply to post by PURIFIER


Ah, Gurkha's...

Amongst the finest soldiers the Army has at it's desposal.

As you mention them, I will provide a small anecdote as to how they came to fight for us...

During the Raj, the British led a campaign against the Nepalese tribesmen who resisted our attempts to subdue them.

A small contingent of British infantry and officers led a huge army of some tens of thousands of Indian soldiers. We faced off against a roughly equal sized force of Nepalese in a battle I forget the name of. The Indian soldiers, well aware of the ferocity and courage of the Nepalese, fled the field despite orders to hold ground.

The small number of British troops and their Officers did not run and stood up to the advancing Nepalese. Puzzled by this, the Nepalese ceased the attack and wanted to parley. When they met the commander, they asked why we did not run.

"We're British. We do not run"

And from that point onwards, impressed by the display of courage in the face of insurmountable odds, the Gurkhas fought for the Empire.

(I am sure some details are missing and others might be embellished, but the underlying theme remains true.)

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
So why can't the Arabs be content to see the jews have a tiny little bit of land to call their own?, their ancestral homeland that they never vacated or relinquished, a tiny scrap compared to the millions of sq miles that the Arabs have overun and conquered - (stolen if you prefer).

Because that was their country and they had only 3% of Jews when they claimed it? Lame excuse, I know.

Are they not a 'people of the book' - fellow monotheists, Mohammed was certainly keen enough to be recognised as a prophet by them when he first started.

Quite the opposite, my uneducated or brainwashed opponent, Mohammed recognized the Jews as the people of the Book ( And I am not even the Muslim)

Did the UN and international community not grant the jews that land!? - have they not won it since by right of conquest?

Yeah, they did, thanks to uncle Stalin.

Did the jews expelled from arab lands in 1948 not equate to the palestinians displaced from Israel? - a fair swap of populations.

Fair? Like the Russian elections (146% for Putin) Is it a Jewish math? Sorry.

The jews have been persecuted and hounded from one country to another since egyptian times, vilified, slandered, inquisited, pogrommed, holocausted, terrorised - by Roman Catholicism, Islam and the Nazis.

And they would not be by now if they didn't try to be Nazis. How many African - Americans were treated unjust - but they don't cry about it 70 years later on every corner.


What is the matter with you all? - why do you hate the jews so much? - do you even know?

No, only Zionists. So do the Jews that happen to be my friends.

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
So why can't the Arabs be content to see the jews have a tiny little bit of land to call their own?, their ancestral homeland that they never vacated or relinquished, a tiny scrap compared to the millions of sq miles that the Arabs have overun and conquered - (stolen if you prefer).

An interesting (and often ignored side of Islamic history) is that many of the earlier converted tribes were Jewish!

And you also have to bear in mind that the diaspora happened LONG before the Muslims turned up. Either way, this was at least 1600 years ago, so they simply have no right to the land now.

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
Did the UN and international community not grant the jews that land!? - have they not won it since by right of conquest?

There is no such thing as "right of conquest" in international law. Annexing of land is illegal.

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
Did the jews expelled from arab lands in 1948 not equate to the palestinians displaced from Israel? - a fair swap of populations.

It was after the mass of Arabs were ejected by the Jews, so it can be seen as a retaliation, but in no way fair.

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
The jews have been persecuted and hounded from one country to another since egyptian times, vilified, slandered, inquisited, pogrommed, holocausted, terrorised - by Roman Catholicism, Islam and the Nazis.

And one wonders why this is..................

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
What is the matter with you all? - why do you hate the jews so much? - do you even know?

I personally couldn't give two hoots what nonsense religion they follow, but I have a major problem with giving one group of peoples lands to another based solely on religion and a claim dating back 2,000 years. This is a bad precedent. I would feel the same if was any group of people.

reply to post by stumason


Wish I could give you a Star. Also, do not know how to quote properly - my post is a mess but I was saying the same things. I also wanted to say " I wonder why is this..." :-)

reply to post by JohhnyBGood


Oh so by that logic, if everyone had the mentality of a 5 year old child (aka Israel), India would have invaded the USA, since the Indians used to live there first. And then would kick them out to neighbours Canada, who are the second largest country in the world with a relatively small population of only 30 million people.
And then India would not sign the nuclear arms treaty, would threaten the peace in the region, would declare that Americans simply do not exist, and systematically kill every last American who did not leave his country, and if they do retaliate, they are terrorists.

Oh, and I actually do have tons of sympathy for the holocaust victims, and I don't appreciate how people throw the topic around so lightly, using it as an excuse to murder and steal someone's land who they have lived on for the last thousand years and much more.

In other words, I present:

reply to post by ghash


As much as I agree with you in general, 1M Jews have perished in Holocaust, and they keep on bitching about it, former USSR has lost 50M during WWII. Due to bad management or what else I don't care, who has the right to bitch?



P.S. During WWII both sides did not take (towards the end) any POWs on Eastern Front, does it qualify as Holocaust? Also, 3rd Reih always declared Slaviac nations as lesser type of humans. Does that qualify? Only JEWS suffered? The whole 1M???

reply to post by PURIFIER


I have never really investigated or took the time to read about the holocaust, but I will this weekend hopefully, since I have never understood why people would deny the existence of such a story when it is said to be documented so clearly.

Figures might be one million or six million, I do not honestly care about the number of deaths.
I feel sorry for the people persecuted by Hitler, tortured and killed. I feel sorry for their family and friends as well. I can never debate such a topic with anyone, simply because I respect the sanctity of life too much to take such topics lightly.

But I also condemn any person who would use the event as an excuse for the holocaust the Israelis are bringing upon the Palestinians. If I belonged to any religion or community that was tortured and exterminated in such a way, and my family got out of it alive, I would never wish the same upon anyone.
And the way the Israelis simply took it all out on the Palestinians is simply the most horrible thing I've ever seen.

Just Thought I would toss this into the thread. Why is there an Israel and why now?

Back in the 80s I got interested in the end times of the Bible and started to research it. And I figured out the root cause of it all. So to put it as simply as possible here goes.

The middle east and the people there are under a 2000 year top level Leviticus 26 curse. Literally that part of the world is cursed. And it appears that things are going to get worse before it's going to get better. So here's the details of the curse.

The curse of Malachi.

Malachi 4
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Matthew 17
10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

The curse exists according to the book. Then the trick was to figure out the details. So for that you need to read up on how curses work under Judaism. So according to Leviticus 26 when the people sin and fall away from their
God they will be subjected to increasing levels of correction and unpleasantness.

The top level is when the country is destroyed and the people scattered to the world. That happened in the 70 to 135 AD time frame with the diaspora.

So now what's the problem? The time frame of the curse which I found in Hosea 6-2. While the entire book of Hosea is about the curse verse 6-2 gives us the length.

2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

Which is decoded with this. 2nd Peter 3-8 which is based on Psalms 90-4.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

2 days is 2000 years on the earth. And combined with Matthew 24 I get the end of that 2000 years between 2025 to 2028.

And then who is all covered by the curse? According to Genesis 48 and 49 the answer is just about everyone. Jews and Israelites have had thousands of years scattering to the world and leaving their genes everywhere.

Per the Genesis prophesies the offspring of Abraham would number like the stars or the grains of sand on the beach. And the tribes of Israel would become a multitude of nations. Essentially the middle east conflict is a family argument.

"The jews have been persecuted and hounded from one country to another since egyptian times, vilified, slandered, inquisited, pogrommed, holocausted, terrorised - by Roman Catholicism, Islam and the Nazis"

The jews do not own a monopoly on human suffering. If a tally was made worldwide throughout history, they might not be in the Top 10. Jews as a people act as they do because of their martyr mentality. It is part of their identity as a people.

IMO they profit off the holocaust and use it to their advantage.

They throw around the idea that they are the worlds most persecuted people, tell everyone else how wrong that is, then behave treat others with the same persecution.

And before I hear the tired "we have holocaust museums so we can teach about it so it doesnt happen again" I will ask, are the jews exempt from those teachings?

Originally posted by ntech

Per the Genesis prophesies the offspring of Abraham would number like the stars or the grains of sand on the beach. And the tribes of Israel would become a multitude of nations.

If you wish to follow the Bible, we all descend from Adam and Eve. What is this BS about God chosen people? And sacred land, 2nd coming of Messiah? SO, if I am not Jew I do not qualify? And you base your country policy on this? I heard that one before, they called themselves Aryans.

Jews flourished in the Arab world???

*sigh* sweeping statements such as this only serve to distort the actual history of the historical relationship between Jews and Arabs.

I've gone into this I think at least 20 times here at ATS; The greatest of all Jewish philosophers, Maimonides, can serve as a typical case of what it was like for Jews in the Arab world. Maimonides fled Arab Spain after refusing conversion. He also fled his hometown of Fez, in Morocco, for telling Moroccan Jews being forced into conversion to lie and pretend to be Muslims while still practicing Judaism. When his letters were discovered the authorities wanted him dead; so he fled to Egypt, where became renown as the physician to Saladin. Only in Egypt - under a moderate Kurdish ruler (and a non-Arab) were Jews free from the perennial abuse experienced throughout the Arab world.

This is peace between Arabs and Jews? This one case alone, which is often treated as proof of Arab tolerance towards Jews, should reveal how completely untrue that assumption is. Maimonides FLED two different Arab kingdoms; the Poet and Rabbi, Judah ha Levi, a contemporary of Maimonides, was killed on his way to the Holy Land by Arab bandits.

Read "In Ishmaels House", or "Dhimmitude", or "Legacy of Jihad", for the history of the Jews in Arab lands.

Even in Eretz Yisrael, Arab massacres against Jews weren't unheard of.

In 1834, Arabs raided the Jewish community of Safed and killed as many as 500 Jews, and then plundered their property.

The badges introduced in Christian France and Germany to be worn by Jews to differentiate them from Christians was actually adopted from the Arabs of Morocco, who forced their Jews to wear such badges, and in other areas, Jews were forced to wear socks of different colors, often yellow and white, on each foot, to give them a Jester like appearance.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by PURIFIER

Originally posted by ntech

Per the Genesis prophesies the offspring of Abraham would number like the stars or the grains of sand on the beach. And the tribes of Israel would become a multitude of nations.

If you wish to follow the Bible, we all descend from Adam and Eve. What is this BS about God chosen people? And sacred land, 2nd coming of Messiah? SO, if I am not Jew I do not qualify? And you base your country policy on this? I heard that one before, they called themselves Aryans.

I'm a Christian actually. In the United States. And I have little to do with my countries policies. But I can tell you what Genesis says. And Romans 11.

Genesis 28
14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

The offspring of Israel was part of the promise. Through their genes they were to mingle with the peoples of the earth. Making them part of the chosen people. But Christianity also provided a 2nd way to salvation as well.

Romans 11 and the olive tree parable.

Read Romans 11 and ask the question "What is the olive tree?" Romans 11

The answer is that the olive tree is the family tree of Israel. In order to become part of the chosen people you simply have to become a Christian. And you become an adopted Israelite. And I do believe the "Curse of Malachi" from above is what Paul is talking about when he mentions that the Jews were broken off the olive tree.

So your question really is "Do you have a Israelite or Christian in your family tree? If so then you're part of this. If not it's easy enough to join the party. But be warned. That door is closing. At best there is only a couple of years left. Maybe less.

Funny how Romans used to be difficult. Now it's understandable.

reply to post by ghash


Religion should never be an excuse to rob people of their land just because it was theres thousands of years ago. It is like standing on a line and you leave the line. Sorry buddy but you lost your spot, you cannot just come back a thousand years later and suddenly reclaim it. Israeli and American history are very common with one another.

Actually that vid is crap, this Israel Vs Palestine has been the same thing since time of Jacob and Esau. But I guess if you dont believe in that then, your missing and important part of history. The root goes back to then. Also note that Romans used to call Hebrews Palestinians to add to their sting.. or break them (70 C.E). In fact I am so confident of what I am saying you could go DNA test Palestinians and Israelis and guess what their related. Besides Palestinians does not equate to arabs. Israel is Israel, and by what authority do we have to ADD OR SUBTRACT from what the Ohr Ein Sof , has declared. Stop falling for the propaganda.

www.jpost.com...

reply to post by PURIFIER


i think perhaps you might have been denied entry to Israel because you entered Jordan first and the only source i can sight off hand is the top gear special when they got dropped off in Iraq and there end destination was Israel and there directions failed to tell them that if they went to jordan or iran(where the bbc is banned) or any number of the neighboring countries that israel will deny them entry (if there passports were stamped etc) so i think that just might be there standard operating procedure