I want you to read this great story

I want to talk about a town where:

The land and their means of living belong to the people (factories, industries, tools and machinery ...)
All salaries are the same. Farmers, teachers, factory workers, managers, clerks all earn the same amount.
The benefits of their productivity goes to maintain their way of life and directly into development.

Housing is a right to all. Those who don't own homes can get one for life with a monthly rent less than a day's work.
There is no unemployment, huge fields to farm, lots of construction projects, growing food factories and industries are always hiring.
Education and healthcare are rights and free as well.

The political system is the most democratic. The parliament is represented by the people. They meet 2 or 3 times a month to decide what to do next, how the money will be spent. They can also here and then decide to keep or fire the mayor and his team.
Moreover, there is no police force. The inhabitants show love and respect for their community, they self regulate.

Here on ATS (and everywhere else) I keep hearing that Communism is utopic and cannot work. Well let me tell you that this town exists.

It is not some remote village in a god forbidden south american leftist dictatorship, it is a village called Marinaleda in Spain, Europe!

Those people have woken up and have lived like this for over 30 years. They took over the land and make it their own. Not only they are living happily, even today in this crisis, but their are the envy of many in Spain, because of better salaries, working conditions and brighter future.

The only problem they face is productivity, when people are guaranteed a salary they don't feel the pressure of greedy and psychopathic bosses. They don't work as hard and it can be troublesome when money is needed to repair infrastructures or further investment. Regardless they have been doing well so far, thanks to the motivation and the drive of a common goal and ownership.

You probably never heard of them, as you might expect the powers are scared of such local rebellions. You, we can do the same and it will work. Land should belong to all, it feeds us. It should not be the possession of the wealthy who often don't even use it to produce.

I know it's hard to fathom this concept, specially for those with higher salaries and enjoying their position of power. Please know that human beings have rights and dignity, that evil feeds on greed. Know how to live like everybody else else, if you want a luxury car then make sure everybody in your community can afford it too.


sources:

en.wikipedia.org...
www.marinaleda.com... (spanish)
www.antequera-inland.com...

While the rest of Spain gorged on cheap credit to buy overpriced houses, the people of Marinaleda were building their own, mortgage-free, under a municipal program, he said. If a resident loses his job, the cooperative hires him, he said, so nobody wants for work — a bold claim in a region with 21 percent unemployment. Vanessa Romero, who moved here with her family from Barcelona in January after she and her husband lost their jobs, said she was drawn by the prospect of work and facilities like the nursery school, which costs about $17 a month. The couple make about $1,500 a month each working for the cooperative. “If a town like this, with half the resources of other towns, or less, can provide work for people, why can’t other places do the same?” said Ms. Romero, whose parents were born in the town.

reply to post by TheOracle


While I respect and admire your desire to see people living in harmony. The reality is that this town you speak of is a specific group of people who chose to live a certain way and it worked. The problem with your concept for rest of the world is that....not everyone want's to do this!

If a person chooses to live life in a simplistic way then so be it...I have no problem with it. If a person desires to work hard so they can buy a dream home and a boat which requires wealth and hard work and a drive....then they are not going to love your and their concept of Utopia. Split Infinity

reply to post by TheOracle


Oracle....I have done and seen things that would make the toughest, bravest man or women puke. I have also seen much beauty and potential in my travels....and I have been just about everywhere. One thing I have learned from all that is...not all people think alike.

What for you makes perfect utopian sense to another is Hell. People are still too unevolved and many are still hanging on to their animalistic tendencies as that is what we are....animals that got smart. I consider myself to have empathy and consideration for my fellow brothers and sisters....yet just like myself you and everyone else has the ability to kill or protect or defend what they hold dear.

It is just that since we have evolved to a state that we can bitch about how we should construct our sociaty rather than spend all our time hunting and gathering just to stay alive....that leaves us vulnerable for catastrophies.

Take it from me....even this town you speak of....change condition for the worse...flood...drought...disease...people running low on food and water and warmth....THEN you will see the true nature of Humans. Split Infinity

I agree we can't change the world over night. I want people to know that we can do it. Today a village, tomorrow a region and so on.
Capitalism is only the fruit of our animalistic sides. The law of the jungle, who gets more, who tramples on more people, who gets the most wealth or carries the bigger sticks.
I think it is time we move on, one step at a time.
I know a lot of people get a cold shiver down their spine just a the mention of such concept. We are ruled by such people, this too can and will change. Not in my lifetime I am sure but let's keep fighting for the sake of our children

reply to post by TheOracle


I'd never heard of this town before. Sounds like the people in that community have done a great job. The only issue I see is that it is one small community. I don't personally feel this would work on a large scale (say a whole country). Don't the Amish essentially live this way? If everyone in that kind of community contributes, works hard and tries then it's a wonderful thing. The problem that I see is that not everyone is as motivated. I suppose I can trot out the old theory that when there is no real reward, there is no motivation. I think we would have to change human nature entirely before this could work. We're greedy and lazy and many would rather someone else do the work while reaping the benefits.

if you want a luxury car then make sure everybody in your community can afford it too.

So I should sell my cars and do what with the money? Give it to the guy driving a Honda next door? Then we would both be stuck driving sub par vehicles. (Don't take the bait guys, thems was jokes).

reply to post by TheOracle


Right now that place in Spain sounds wonderful. It's nearly 2012 & mankind still has the same values as a caveman. Really sad considering what we have acheived technologically. Maybe we (the people) need to change the way we think and educate so we can all share this kind of life. It surley can't be worse than what we live now.
What's wrong with changing human nature? We (mankind) have the capability to learn & change...................we just need the will.
Thanks OP for the enlightenment. I really couldn't have imagined a place like this existed.

HI,
wow....didnt know that was in my backyard......oh and this is not exactly communism......its a tribal like society where a community takes care of itself.....we tend to put things into context with our modern day concepts of political orientation of one way or the other when in reality we are just adding complexity to already established ways of governance and orginazation......there is no shaman or anything but there is a loclal docter etc......
In this case instead of depending on the larger "tribes" a small tribe has become auto-efficient........

Originally posted by TheOracle
I agree we can't change the world over night. I want people to know that we can do it. Today a village, tomorrow a region and so on.
Capitalism is only the fruit of our animalistic sides. The law of the jungle, who gets more, who tramples on more people, who gets the most wealth or carries the bigger sticks.
I think it is time we move on, one step at a time.
I know a lot of people get a cold shiver down their spine just a the mention of such concept. We are ruled by such people, this too can and will change. Not in my lifetime I am sure but let's keep fighting for the sake of our children

You are very correct that capitalism is generated from our animal side...but it also is generated from a desire to control ones destiny. Control of anything is an illusion as nature has demonstrated often. Temporary control is achievable but at a price of fooling oneself.

Still....if properly regulated....it is the best system for Humans at the present time. Also....who can deny a person of financial gain for hard work?

The problem is the regulatory aspect as well as the legal/political abuse of the system. We have it good here in the west. Much better than most places on Earth. The majority of people still spend most of their day....hunting or raising livestock for food and foradging what little is available.

The only way to solve the problem is to develop cheap energy and clean and genetic research in disease and food production...but with some regulation. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


You are right and to be honest I see the advantages of rewarding hard work with salary. They have the chance of living in a caring community with no or little dissent. In other places, where more productivity is needed, if the population isn't motivated it simply won't work.
Until then we need a bit of both to make a good transition, while education teaches future generation to forget this sad idea of capitalism.

I want to add that man is a social creature, just like ants. Since the dark ages we have learnt how to live together in small communities, often trusting leaders to guide us through. Nowadays leaders aren't interested in helping the communities, they are capitalist pics trying to enrich themselves or their corporate masters. Where has it gone wrong?