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Lilith and the Bohemian Grove?

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posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 08:31 PM
reply to post by supermanning

Interesting. What do you base your conclusion on with 1914? Is there a reference I can consider? I would tend against this as the day of rest is not yet upon us according to the 70 generations of Enoch 1. Israel was not yet a nation either. We also see an amazing figure show up as a man on earth at the end of each age of 2000 years. Jesus did say that the last days would be cut short, but how short? I guess 100 years is not entirely out of the question. References would help me.

edit on 24-12-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 08:34 PM
reply to post by Drala

are you saying everything a novelist writes must be fiction? you assume a lot of things and jump to conclusions that are pretty must have some grudge against something i said, otherwise your hostility toward my posts seem nonsensical.

from the first page of results in google when I searched "cain and abel agriculture":


A few scholars suggest the pericope may have been based on a Sumerian story representing the conflict between nomadic shepherds and settled farmers.[17] [Others think that it may refer to the days in which agriculture began to replace the ways of the hunter-gatherer.[18][19]

In Cain’s idolatry of agriculture, in his rejection of honesty and reality, in his false religious spirit, he left the farm and went to the city, a place of security outside of God, a gathering of men ... agriculture is good, God-ordained and required, the basis for natural life on earth where the Lord God put man to labor. Abel’s sacrifice was accepted and Abel remained a farmer. He was righteous. Is the farm a manifestation of Babylon? No. Earthly cities can be, though not all living in a city are in idolatry.

"the philosophy of history: cain and abel", by professor Johann Eduard Erdmann:

Now Abel, represents the age of the pasture -based economy, of the primitive socialism that pre-ceded ownership, and cain represents the system of agriculture, and individual or monopoly ownership. thereafter a permanent war began so that the whole of history became the stage for a struggle between the party of cain the killer, and abel, his victim, or, in other words, the ruler and the ruled. abel the pastoralist was killed by cain the landowner; the period of common ownership of the sources of production - the age of pastoralism, hunting and fishing - the spirit of brotherhood and true faith came to an end and was replaced by the age of agriculture and the establishment of a system of private ownership, together with religious trickery and transgression against the rights of others. abel disappeared and cain came to the forefront of history, and there he still lives.

i think my role in this thread is done. if you still are holding that little grudge, for a start, you can please direct it toward wikipedia and the professor mentioned here, and not at I.

edit on 12/24/11 by metalshredmetal because: sp

posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 09:09 PM
reply to post by supermanning

Samael. Different translations of the word Lilith are found to be that of "Great Owl" or "screech owl."

Actually, the earliest tradition has it with Ashmodai, although later Kabbalists said Samael. In either case, the mythological point remains the same.

Lilith is the primordial feminine at the level of Tohu. Hence, she was made from the same clay - the prima materia - as Adam. In the world of Tohu, there is no basis for a relationship between the masculine and the femine, which is why Lilith refuses to lie under Adam. Tohu is chaos - it is the 'void', without any differentiations and distinctions, and so completely unsuited for this lower world of particularization.

This Rabbinic legend conveys a poignant metaphysical and psychological fact; the divine feminine, when it does not serve it's purpose as receptor of divine bounty (the masculine), performs the exact opposite function: it becomes the mother of demons.

Lilith means 'night' in Hebrew, and refers to the darkness of undifferentiation between masculine and feminine energies. Eve, unlike Lilith, was not made from the same primordial clay as Adam, but came from Adam's Rib. Because she was apart of Adam, and together, her and Adam constituted one being, when she was separated, whats being allegorically referred to is her mode as the receptacle of Adam's influence; the interdependent masculine-feminine paradigm . This is best highlighted I think in Miltons Paradise Lost, where Eve constantly mentions her obligation to seek Adams guidance i.e. seek his influence.

When the active masculine and passive feminine powers function in harmony within human society, creation is at peace, and the Shekinah dwells among man.. When it isn't - and it hasn't been for thousands of years - society is subject to destabilizing spiritual influences, the offspring of Lilith and Samael - the night-delusion of the soul (the feminine, man) elicits the blindness of God (samael), and this produces demons, energies which siphon spiritual power from the souls of man.

There's an interesting Rabbinic legend dating back to the 14th century about a certain Rabbi Reina that touches on this exact subject.

You can read about it here.

edit on 24-12-2011 by dontreally because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 09:18 PM
And no, the owl at Bohemian Grove probably refers to Athena.

Look up Greek myth. At the end of the Aeon, Athena is destined to spring forth from the forehead of Zeus. Translated this means: Zeus - the created order, paralleling the "Judeo-Christian" moral order, has been the dominant spiritual force of the last 2000 years (the current 'aeon', according to Platonian astronomy). Athena represents a spiritual wisdom that is superior to that of Zeus; hence, she bursts through the forehead (a symbol for the power of perception) of Zeus - the moral order.

What they worship is the symbol the Owl represents; they worship Wisdom.

Simply read up on the popular spiritual movements of the last 150 years, Theosophy, New Thought, Perennial philosophy, etc - all of which harbinger the type of thought expected to go global in the so-called "age of aquarius"
edit on 24-12-2011 by dontreally because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 09:23 PM
reply to post by SuperiorEd

As recorded at Luke 21:24, Jesus said: “Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations [“the times of the Gentiles,” King James Version] are fulfilled.”

How and when, though, did God’s rulership begin to be “trampled on by the nations”? This happened in 607 B.C.E. when Jerusalem was conquered by the Babylonians. “god's throne” became vacant, and the line of kings who descended from David was interrupted. (2 Kings 25:1-26) Would this ‘trampling’ go on forever? No, for the prophecy of Ezekiel said regarding Jerusalem’s last king, Zedekiah: “Remove the turban, and lift off the crown. . . . It will certainly become no one’s until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him.” (Ezekiel 21:26, 27) The one who has “the legal right” to the Davidic crown is Christ Jesus. (Luke 1:32, 33) So the ‘trampling’ would end when Jesus became King.

When would that grand event occur? Jesus showed that the Gentiles would rule for a fixed period of time. The account in Daniel chapter 4 holds the key to knowing how long that period would last. It relates a prophetic dream experienced by King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. He saw an immense tree that was chopped down. Its stump could not grow because it was banded with iron and copper. An angel declared: “Let seven times pass over it.”—Daniel 4:10-16.

In the Bible, trees are sometimes used to represent rulership. (Ezekiel 17:22-24; 31:2-5) So the chopping down of the symbolic tree represents how God’s rulership, as expressed through the kings at Jerusalem, would be interrupted. However, the vision served notice that this ‘trampling of Jerusalem’ would be temporary—a period of “seven times.” How long a period is that?

Revelation 12:6, 14 indicates that three and a half times equal “a thousand two hundred and sixty days.” “Seven times” would therefore last twice as long, or 2,520 days. But the Gentile nations did not stop ‘trampling’ on God’s rulership a mere 2,520 days after Jerusalem’s fall. Evidently, then, this prophecy covers a much longer period of time. On the basis of Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6, which speak of “a day for a year,” the “seven times” would cover 2,520 years.

The 2,520 years began in October 607 B.C.E., when Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians and the Davidic king was taken off his throne. The period ended in October 1914. At that time, “the appointed times of the nations” ended, and Jesus Christ was installed as God’s heavenly King.*—Psalm 2:1-6; Daniel 7:13, 14.

Just as Jesus predicted, his “presence” as heavenly King has been marked by dramatic world developments—war, famine, earthquakes, pestilences. (Matthew 24:3-8; Luke 21:11) Such developments bear powerful testimony to the fact that 1914 indeed marked the birth of God’s heavenly Kingdom and the beginning of “the last days” of this present wicked system of things.—2 Timothy 3:1-5.

posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 09:28 PM
reply to post by dontreally

But if you watch "Dark Secrets of Bohemian Grove" the priests are making references to the ancients of Babylon. It's a self explanation of where this ritual comes from. Babylon is thousands of years before Greeks and Romans.
edit on 24-12-2011 by supermanning because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 09:44 PM
reply to post by supermanning

The ancient knowledge or 'agenda' is said to go all the way back to the Babylonians and Egyptians (depending on who you're reading, if it's blavatasky, it will be the babylonians, or possibily the hindus, if it's Manly P Hall, it's the Egyptians).

Herodotus, the ancient Greek historian, attributed all of Greece's myths to Egypt, meaning, they originated in Egypt. The myth itself is a metaphysical allegory of reality (or how reality is perceived by a particular group of people). So whether or not the myth of Athena originated in Egypt, or Babylon is unimportant. What matter's is the substance of the symbolism.

Additionally, if you look at other pictures of bohemian grove, throughout the camp you will encounter mythological figures from Greek myth; nymphs, sylphs, figures of Pan, and other such oddities. Bohemian Grove isn't a homage to "babylonian" religion, since Babylonian religion is just an earlier and more ancient manifestation of a religious ethos that later on appeared in Greece, and elsewhere, ultimately morphing into a religion that most of the world adheres to today. Every religious type appears at the grove, obviously, of a more 'pagan' and non-Christian nature, despite the grove being a meeting place for supposedly Christian right wing Republicans.

I say the owl probably refers to Athena because of what I know about Greek myth, and what Athena represents - wisdom. Before Athena stood in the grove, a 60 foot (rough estimate) statue of Buddha stood where the Owl now stands today. Because of the material the statue was made from (a clay of some sort, if I remember correctly), they had to replace it, and what they replaced it with was a symbol that was in essence akin to the Buddha, but Greek, as opposed to Eastern, in origin..

This is Athena. The owl that see's in the night; the mystic who perceives the occluded metaphysical dimension behind the physical manifestation. The owl is a symbol for this, because it contains, or rather, emanates through its nature these archetypal properties.

Thus Buddha, and some strange monks, at the Grove in the late 1800's.

edit on 24-12-2011 by dontreally because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 09:54 PM
reply to post by supermanning

John 5:58
Jesus said to them, 'Truly truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am

posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 09:59 PM
reply to post by killemall

That's because he was the only begotten son of god. Who was the first Angel ever created? Michael the Archangel. Therefore I believe it was Michael that was put into mary and born as Jesus, or Yeshua as ancient Hebrews called him.

posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 10:11 PM
reply to post by supermanning

Interesting. I did a thread on this and arrived at 1948. Here is what I calculated. THREAD

The Prophecy ... Ezekiel 4:4-6

"Then God said to Ezekiel,
'Now lie on your left side for 390 days
to show Israel will be punished for 390 years
by captivity and doom.
Each day you lie there represents
a year of punishment ahead for Israel.
Afterwards, turn over and lay on your right side
for 40 days, to signify the years of Judah's punishment.
Each day will represent one year . . .'"
(Ezekiel 4:4-6)

390 days Judgment against the 10 northern tribes 'Israel'
+ 40 days Judgment against the 2 southern tribes 'Judah'
= 430 years Judgment against the nation of Israel


430 years of judgment determined against nation Israel
- 70 years fulfilled during the Babylonian captivity
= 360 years remaining in judgment against the nation of Israel

Where are the 360 years?

"And after all this, if you do not obey Me,
then I (God) will punish you seven times more for your sins."
(Leviticus 26:18)

"Then, if you walk contrary to Me,
and are not willing to obey Me,
I (God) will bring on you seven times more plagues,
according to your sins."
(Leviticus 26:21)

"And after all this,
if you do not obey Me,
but walk contrary to Me,
then I (God) also will walk contrary to you in fury;
and I, even I will chastise you seven times for your sins.:
(Leviticus 26:27-28)

"I (God) will scatter you among the nations
and draw a sword after you;
your Land shall be desolate
and your cities waste."
(Leviticus 26:33)

This is a factor of 7 (7X)

360 Remaining years of judgment
x 7 The prophetic '7X' factor
= 2,520 Years of judgment remained against nation Israel

360 day years for prophecies, then add the appropriate 'leap months' to the schedule. So, the easiest way to unravel this prophecy is to first convert this prophecy into days ...

2,520 years
x 360 days
= 907,200 days of judgment remained against nation Israel after the Babylonian captivity

907,200 days ÷ 365.25 days = 2,483.78 years of God's judgment remained

Now have another look.

606 B.C Israel taken into Babylonian captivity
- 70 Years for 70 years
= 536 B.C. End of first 70 years of judgment
+ 2483 Years Now add the 2,483 years remaining in this judgment
+ 1 Year Add 1 year because there is no "0" B.C. or A.D.
= 1948 AD! End of judgment against nation Israel

posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 10:44 PM
reply to post by SuperiorEd

I am interested in your theory, however there is one thing to your equation that I don't comprehend. When this was all written in ezekiel, there were no leap years/months in the calendar. Everything was based on a 13 month system and the days were placed equally over the year, every year. There was no reason for leaps of anykind. How do you explain that? I do like how in converts into 1948 when Israel became a nation again. However I am talking about when Christ took power in heaven and the demons were cast down. Not when Israel became a nation again.

posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 10:46 PM
reply to post by SuperiorEd

Holy crap I just realized you gave the formula as to when Israel was done being judged. LMAO hahahahahahahaha
Thank you very much!!!!!!!!!!

posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 11:01 PM
reply to post by dontreally

I'm talking about Lilith, the first of mankind, who through the son Ben Sira of the prophet Jeremiah of the bible, wrote and told king nebudchanezzzer about. Athena was a Pagan god. Jeremiah was a prophet of YHWH and therefore his son was to, and to have a book of the bible with the holy name in it could be from non other than the most holies of holies, as well as Enoch, Maccabees, Apocrypha, and etc taken out by Constantine and gave us which is what is has become? WTF????????? I'm sick of organized religion. If people just read ancient texts, one will come to an accurate understanding of the great creator. It all makes sense, what you thought you knew and could never quite answer morally makes perfect sense when you read all the ancient writngs.

posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 11:17 PM
reply to post by supermanning

Interesting theory. I can't really comment but I tried to locate the source of the OWL statue at Bohemian Grove. I wondered if it was some kind of an occult symbol or something. I know it is one of the earliest cuneiform symbols and the Egyptians used it in a lot in their writing and carvings but not sure how it plays into Lilith.

posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 11:30 PM
reply to post by Drala

Quite haha that stuff would be awesome to harness, hmm I don't know whether to name him "bible" writer, Or Writer Of what is left of the truth haha

posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 11:55 PM
reply to post by dontreally

If you believe those pics are from 1800's I got some prime real estate in cheronobyl. They are WAY too clear to be 1800's LOL hahahahhaahahahahhaha

posted on Dec, 25 2011 @ 12:01 AM
reply to post by supermanning

I'm talking about Lilith, the first of mankind, who through the son Ben Sira of the prophet Jeremiah of the bible, wrote and told king nebudchanezzzer about

I must be light years ahead of most of the posters here, because very few of you understand the metaphysical nature of Myths.

As someone who studies Kabbalah, reads Hebrew, is intimate with Talmudic and Midrashic legend, let me tell you something: these myths are METAPHORS.

All myths are metaphors. What do you think one learns in the mystery schools? What do you think the Sod of Torah is? Its METAPHYSICS. This strange and bizarre language of Adam having a wife before Eve, etc, that's metaphorical, referring to a metaphysical-ontological concept, which I explained for you in my first post in this thread. Which clearly, no one here understands, and so fail to appreciate.

Jesus. Am I the only person here who reads books?

Athena was a Pagan god

She was a goddes, and, soo? What's your point?

Athena is an allegorical device; a symbol for an archetype. The reality the symbol refers to - is a real thing, but the symbol itself, is merely an instrument.

The same force behind "Athena" can be seen in many other cultures, and indeed, one can see in Mary Magdalen the same archetypal power.

The name YaHShUA (Anglicized as Jesus) means Yah Saves. The name Yah, a name of God, refers to the sephirah (archetype) of Hokmah (wisdom). Yahshua is therefore the incarnation of divine wisdom - akin to the Hindu Krishna (who is the avatar of Vishnu) or Siddhartha Buddha. He is the divine logos incarnate, and his spouse, is the Sophia, which is Mary Magdalen. In Kabbalistic terms, Jesus and Mary Magdalen is the union of Hokmah and Binah. In Gnosticism, it is the divine Pleroma with the Sophia.

The owl - which is a living symbol, as all of creation - is a symbol for Athena.

Take it or leave it. That's what it symbolizes.

posted on Dec, 25 2011 @ 12:03 AM
reply to post by supermanning


Look at the redwoods in the background. This is definitely Bohemian Grove.

Here's another photo from the 1880s

Not much of a difference in the quality of the picture. Also, keep in mind, that Bohemian Grove in the late 1800's was a hotspot for westcoast artists. Thus, the best photographic technology would have been available to them.

You should investigate before you make smart alec statements.
edit on 25-12-2011 by dontreally because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 25 2011 @ 12:11 AM
reply to post by newcovenant

In the alphabet of Ben Sira, Lilith called out the name of god and turned into an owl and flew away. That is why the owl was called the lilith in in the bible.

posted on Dec, 25 2011 @ 12:34 AM
To make things easier on you...

Lilith, yes, can be represented by an owl - or a black dog (possibly a Doberman), as she is represented in another Jewish medieval legend, but in all likelihood, given the pagan ambiance of Bohemian Grove, with it's greco-roman themes, it's more probably a reference to Greek myth, than to a Jewish concept - which they would probably abhor to begin with.

To get just one thing out of the way that annoys me: Lilith is a metaphor and personification of a metaphysical reality. As is Athena, and every other mythical figure you have ever learned of. This is how the Hindus understand their gods and goddesses so, it makes perfect sense (if you want to base you're understanding on another cultural example) for you to understand the myths of other cultures in the same sense.

Lilith, as explained before, refers to the divine feminine within the kabbalistic world of Tohu - Chaos - before the differentiation of masculine and feminine into giver and receiver, or active and passive (symbolized by Adam and Eve - Gods archetypal example for mankind). This is what is meant by saying she like Adam were made from clay - Clay is a symbol of the primal material of creation, which is chaos. Disorder, precedes order. Clay is a disordered mass of material that can be shaped and formed.

Athena, inasmuch as she refers to the Sophia, is an apt cognate for Lilith. Again, Lilith could be understood by the Gnostic thinker as the 'pure' partner of Adam before God created Eve.

This is why feminists love Lilith, and see in her the primordial archetype of feminine rebellion against the masculine, and hence, against God.
edit on 25-12-2011 by dontreally because: (no reason given)

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