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I'm not quite an Atheist, but....

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posted on Dec, 30 2011 @ 06:52 PM
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I was just thinking the other day that I really should get another copy of The God Delusion for my collection, not read it in a few years now. I agree with you that he didn't go very far into explaining how we went from our early beginnings to [some of us] believing in an all powerful, vengeful and jealous being that created us. This, however, wasn't a big issue for me, I didn't think it was something he needed to explain though, re-reading it with this thread in mind may well change that.

I do think it's a book that everyone should read, that and K-PAX




posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 07:27 AM
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Originally posted by dyllels
Hey NorEaster, Nice thread as usual


If you are interested, take a look at a book called Supernatural by Graham Hancock. It's quite a meaty book (about 750 pages), but it's only that long because he is very thorough when drawing his conclusions. I'm not quite sure if it's what you're after, but it's worth checking out if you able to get your hands on it.


I found a free pdf copy online, and started reading it yesterday. His detailed analysis of the "problem" of the very first human being to embrace the existence of what can only be seen as a completely incompatible notion - the existence of non-material realms and beings - is exactly my own way of considering the issue, and I was very pleased to have found someone out there who can appreciate just how difficult a riddle it really is. Buried deep within the human DNA predilection suite, after likely tens of thousands of years of cultural programming, it's "inherent" as a human go-to premise, but unlike all other predilections, it had to initiate with a complete 180 degree reversal of what the corporeal brain is designed to consider possible - at the very least, plausible.

I'm playing with the notion that the various drug potions that he describes experimenting with in his Amazon basin adventures might be capable of "lifting" the mind's Corporeal Conscious Awareness (CCA) from the normal Point of Perspective (POP), located along the mixed and processed data stream - just short of the brain's short term memory storage circuitry input - and causing it to retreat into the Intellect informational whole - in essence, allowing the mind to "see" from the POP of a human being that's been freed of its 2nd stage gestational "placenta" via a specific near-death trauma scenario - but only to a limited and obviously intermittent degree. I'll certainly need to do more research into the actual physiological impact of this class of drugs on the human body/brain, with a focus on just how potentially toxic they are, or that they're capable of mimicking. The constant puking and diarrhea reactions are certainly a strong clue that this stuff is potentially lethal, and that may be an important clue about why the mind feels a need to prematurely disengage from its corporeal survival POP - even though it doesn't completely disconnect.

If there's any real connection between that disengagement (if it does indeed happen during these trances, of course) and these toxic concoctions, then these people are flirting on the very edge of real corporeal death when they drink that stuff. So much so that their minds' own survival responses are being intermittently initiated - kind of like how a person's experience of a near fatal event will trigger a Near Death Experience (NDE) until the body has passed successfully through the point of passing away permanently.

Interesting book, at any rate. Thanks for turning me on to it. There may be much to learn here, at least by direct logical inference. If what I think might be true here, this altered state theory could be a plausible explanation for the DNA level comfort we all have with the existence of a non-corporeal realm of fellow human beings. That said, the mystery of who figured out the recipe (another numbingly unlikely event) and why the human survival imperative drove anyone to repeatedly suffer through what seems to be an extremely unpleasant suite of side effects - in order to build up the tolerances required to really break free with any of these prepared elixirs - may prove to be the most difficult nut to crack here. Something or someone must've been sufficiently persuasive and instructive - and this supposes that such information could've developed (considering the requirement of multiple plant species and the very specific preparations involved) without any guidance, or even a plausible level of purposeful destination already part of the mind of the initiator of this practice. That nut still awaits its own cracking, and may be completely impenetrable without resorting to faith or irresponsible assumptions as default tool sets.

Good lead though. Thanks.



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by NorEaster

I'm playing with the notion that the various drug potions that he describes experimenting with in his Amazon basin adventures might be capable of "lifting" the mind's Corporeal Conscious Awareness (CCA) from the normal Point of Perspective (POP), located along the mixed and processed data stream - just short of the brain's short term memory storage circuitry input - and causing it to retreat into the Intellect informational whole - in essence, allowing the mind to "see" from the POP of a human being that's been freed of its 2nd stage gestational "placenta" via a specific near-death trauma scenario - but only to a limited and obviously intermittent degree.


That is very interesting. I get what you are saying, and to be honest it is a very original way of looking at it (compared to how I would sum it up, if I even could). I need to do a bit more thinking about what you said in your post but I'm liking where you are headed.


Originally posted by NorEaster
If there's any real connection between that disengagement (if it does indeed happen during these trances, of course) and these toxic concoctions, then these people are flirting on the very edge of real corporeal death when they drink that stuff. So much so that their minds' own survival responses are being intermittently initiated - kind of like how a person's experience of a near fatal event will trigger a Near Death Experience (NDE) until the body has passed successfully through the point of passing away permanently.


I was thinking about that, but I got stuck when I considered how eastern mystics were able to reach the same state of mind without forcing themselves to the brink of death.
I have been fortunate enough to have had exposure to traditional San (Bushmen) and other Southern African cultures, some of who do not take any other substances in order to lift the veil and communicate with the 'spirit world'.

Now it could be that the traditional dances result in dehydration and exhaustion causing them to travel along that edge of reality, but in the case of a meditating guru, what would cause their experiences? I'm just thinking aloud here, but would be interested in hearing your views.


Originally posted by NorEaster

That said, the mystery of who figured out the recipe (another numbingly unlikely event) and why the human survival imperative drove anyone to repeatedly suffer through what seems to be an extremely unpleasant suite of side effects - in order to build up the tolerances required to really break free with any of these prepared elixirs - may prove to be the most difficult nut to crack here.


I hear you. That question has been dwelling in my head for a long time, and I can say that I am no closer to finding an answer. Even in the simplest terms, cultures would have to have gone through immense losses before a non-fatal recipe was even formulated (and that is looking at only one plant species). It seems to me that there must have been a guiding force which first opened the door for them, to enable it to be re-opened if you know what I mean.

I'm glad you found the book interesting, and you have made me take it back off the shelf as well



 
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