One person should only be so rich.

I'll say this as nicely as I can.

I started out poor. I worked my way through college. I worked 2 and 3 jobs until I had enough to start a business. I have done very well for myself.

You have no right to a dime of my money. When I die, it will go to my family, not the government. It's called estate planning.

If you want more than you have, work for it.

Originally posted by Darkrunner
If I build a company from the ground up, with a revolutionary new product or service, and find out that the reward for my effort is going to be taken from me, the I won't start the company to begin with. I will relegate that idea to the trash bin of history.

Then you are doing it for the wrong reasons and your idea isn't needed in the world.

If the idea is something that will be of benefit, then someone else will discover the idea.

Do you really think that the history of mankind hinges or your own greatness?

You are as temporary as toilet paper in the history of time.

Nothing you do will bring you eternal glory.

You will be forgotten about regardless.

Yet you are of utmost importance now. For your now is a small piece of our children's tomorrow.

They are who we are really laboring for.

And when you are reborn into this world, a blank slate, you will judge those who came before you on what they have done to make your life easier.

Not by name, but by their deeds.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by Unrealised
To me, Communism is the way of the future.

According to this site, Ignorance is frowned upon, but it is the prehistoric-like fear of Communism that, to me, is a blatant red-flag that people do not understand the true miracle that Communism could be for the World.

There is a reason that there is a fear of communism, because communism not only has never worked "in the real world"....but also has some other flaws.

One flaw of it is that it would entitle forfeiting individual prosperity/wealth for the sake of the "community" (as in "everyone")....the problem is only that the desire to build *individual* wealth/prosperity/luxury etc. is something VERY human and "normal"...and there is really no reason to completely replace "individual" desires and replace them with communism.

Tell me..why is it that you guys always see everything EITHER in 1) black or 2) white.... or 1) red or 2) blue or 1) DEM or 2) REP or 1) Capitalism or 2) Communism?

Total BS!

Look around what works in Europe for a long time already, in particular look at the northern countries.

What you need is not "communism"...but FINALLY, FINALLY starting to fix those horrible flaws the "classic capitalism" has. It works in Norway, Sweden, Germany, Finland and many other rich countries.

No-one has to leave individual rights at the table, and people can still get as rich "as they want". Work needs to be rewarded. There is no reason to limit wealth. BUT....plenty of things to do to fix YOUR screwed up capitalism.

1) Fix your stupid and totally over-the-top spending on military matters. Obviously, some people must like the idea otherwise people wouldn't rave for Ron Paul and his idea to pull out from all the darn desert holes around the world. THEN DO IT.

Take your soldiers out there and spend your money on other things, or at least SIGNIFICANTLY cut your military "engagements" and costs.

2) Invest WAY MORE in alternative energies like western Europe does for a long time already. You STILL dont get it! Oil *WILL* run out...you are STILL dependent on oil and what's going on in the middle-east.

Instead of fighting for damn oil....start looking into alternatives and instead spend the money in R&D in regards to alternative energies.

3) Fix your education. People having to pay to go to school? Ridiculous!

4) Fix your totally screwed up health-care system

The solution is that TO SOME EXTENT there must be involvement of the Government with programs which will support "the poor", for example by giving them education, training etc. so they can find jobs.

Companies need to have tax-breaks and other benefits when they hire people.

AGAIN..this works in EU for a long time already. And this has NOTHING in the slightest to do with communism. It's looking at some flaws we have with capitalism and trying to find sensible solutions. (We call this "social democracy"..and again it has NOTHING to do with communism, and only very little with socialism, if any)

And..again....EDUCATE your people because many don't even understand that and think people in Europe are "communist" or "socialist"...they say that because they are dumb and haven't learned a thing in school.

I appreciate my American Freemarket Capitalistic system that allows me to amass as much wealth as I please to make.
If there are any American business-owners here on ATS they must appreciate Freemarket capitalism like every true American does.
There is nothing wrong with amassing wealth for one's self or family dynasty. The wisdom is in applied economics and keeping it balanced and positively flowing.

Originally posted by Tippys Dad
I'll say this as nicely as I can.

I started out poor. I worked my way through college. I worked 2 and 3 jobs until I had enough to start a business. I have done very well for myself.

You have no right to a dime of my money. When I die, it will go to my family, not the government. It's called estate planning.

If you want more than you have, work for it.

Spoken like a true house 'n-word'.

House Negro

House Negro (also House Nigger) is a pejorative term for a black person, used to compare someone to a house slave of a slave owner from the historic period of legal slavery in the US. The term comes from a speech, Message to the Grass Roots, given by African American activist Malcolm X, where he explains that during slavery, there were two kinds of slaves: "house Negroes," who worked in the master's house and "field Negroes," who performed the manual labor outside. He characterizes the house Negro as having a better life than the field Negro, and thus unwilling to leave the plantation, and potentially more likely to support existing power structures that favor whites over blacks. Malcolm X identified with the field Negro. The term is used against individuals[1][2], in critiques of attitudes within the African American community,[3] and as a borrowed term for critiquing parallel situations.[4]

You describe being a slave, brag because as a good slave, you made it into the house, then rail against those who say to hell with being a slave.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by s12345


I agree. by today's standards I can certainly agree that anybody with more than 10 million dollars should give up the rest. They've made themselves a good life -- several good lives worth actually. So what do they need more for? But I don't think that it should be given to government as they are not any better than the greedy businesses we have a problem with (in fact they are the ultimate greedy business).

Wow. It's pretty heated in here, lol.

After reading a majority of the 8 pages thus far of this thread, I think I have a pretty good idea of where I stand on this particular topic, so I'mma take a crack at it.

Personally, I've been dirt poor (by American standards: I have a computer and a phone at least. For now ) my entire life. Since I was just a kid, until even now.

I admit, I didn't always make the right choices, and I'm paying for those mistakes now, naturally. But I'm pushin', and luck seems to be getting on my side as well these days.

But my interest in this issue isn't due to where I'm at in relation to others. My lack of wealth compared to the concentration of wealth by someone else is not the focus of my thoughts on this subject. Rather, it is what I've observed of how other people are interpreting the OP as well as their thoughts and opinions on why the measures suggested is right or wrong.

Just to be clear, though, if a an income cap were put in place, say the $100 million the OP suggested, hypothetically... I'm pretty sure I wouldn't mind. I have absolutely no idea what I would even DO with that much money, and truthfully, the thought of even having that much dough... scares the crap outta me, lol.

That said however, realistically, I don't think the cap would mean much in the grand scheme of things. After all, it is to my understanding that human nature itself is solely responsible for the woes of our society. Not necessarily for all, but for many, exploitation of a system for greater gain is a human specialty. For some people, having enough simply is not enough.

Too many people want dominion. Control. Power. Not only are these desires advantageous on a physical survival level, but the psychological effect of it's pursuit and attainment can't be discounted either. It feels good to be able to control your environment and ensure your place. Being at the top gets you some pretty sweet perks.

This fact combined with how our current economic system is set up, would make such a cap pretty much useless. This is due to the reality being that the people putting such a thing in place, and then maintaining it and enforcing it would almost certainly end up abusing and exploiting it for their own gain. The existing structure of government and economy would likely need to be dismantled and reconfigured or replaced for such a measure to even be useful.

And even then, human nature itself would need to somehow be curbed. I like the idealism behind what the OP suggested. I don't believe the premise was necessarily devised from a jealous mindset, rather I feel that it springs from a desire to imagine a better way of fueling human progress while maintaining our sustainability on this planet.

I mean, on the real... the way our species currently conducts itself as a whole... it's pretty much anti-bueno. The way we do things now can't last. It won't last.

Anywho, my thoughts. Curious to know yours in relation to mine...

Originally posted by UfoFaker
reply to post by dannotz

 

you just proved my point for me,

yes it is, because your wasting time is literally killing us.

edit on 24-12-2011 by UfoFaker because: (no reason given)

And who's to say what falls under wasting time? I'm sure you have activities others consider pointless would you give them up? Hell some would consider posting on forums a waste of time that interferes with something more productive.


It's all well and good when people construct a notion about how people should live until it comes time for them to give something they value and you watch how quickly the excuses poor in.

Originally posted by TheLastStand
reply to post by s12345

 

I agree. by today's standards I can certainly agree that anybody with more than 10 million dollars should give up the rest.

Absurd, absurd!

I am not one who thinks it's cool that some people have many millions and others have NOTHING, by a long shot.

But take this example: Let's say i am a programmer and have this great idea and develop an application, i make a site and put the software on it - it becomes a BIG HIT.

People buying this software from me, i am making millions and millions!

So...once i hit $10M sales i should simply "give away" my money and "only" keep $10M, but then give the money i am making from my idea/product to other people instead?

So other people are benefiting from my work/ideas? How should that ever work?


Instead of "limiting" individual wealth...rather look for a solution that EVERY HUMAN can have the necessities for live FOR FREE.

This includes:

* No one should need to pay for rent.
* Utilities/Water etc. should be free
* Necessary Groceries should be free

Basically, a "simple" life should not cost anything, only a "luxury life". People should NEVER ever have to pay just to have a roof over their head or to have *something* to eat.

But to achieve this you don't have to limit individual wealth, there are other ways to do this.

reply to post by UfoFaker


Uh reply to the right person next time.

thanks.

reply to post by flexy123


We've had our differences in the past Flexy123 but in the spirit of christmas I have to totally agree with you here.

The problem is the people you are referring to are non existant. More people are taking from the system than giving to it, which is why it's failing. Nosediving I mean. You can't have half the population paying no taxes and 20+ percent on government welfare and expect it to work.

Something needs to change or the whole thing is gonna crash, soon.

reply to post by IAMIAM


There is nothing wrong with wanting to be compensated for working 100 hour weeks trying to get a new company off the ground or a new idea to market.

In some hippie utopia it would be nice if everyone worked for the betterment of humanity, but I think that's unrealistic. In the end, when all is said and done, people look out for themselves.

I find it ludicrous that in some cases somebody who has enough money can buy their way out of jail.

aparchives.blogspot.com...

"This is pure random violence," Ms. Riggin said. "He should not be able to buy his way out of prison."

We now live in a service economy so let those of us with knowledge do a service and make our money without capping our financial potential. As a owner of 3 businesses I am biased, and I am also a staunch Capitalist who believes in the Free-market enterprise system. No salary caps just business as usual.

The 1% has always carried the 99% in a Capitalist Society...simply put the Capitalist model was built around this premise. I pay my workers a gainful salary for a reason, and if they desire more income they are welcome to it by picking up more contracts without a ceiling! If you do not like living in a class-based society then there is always the option of renouncing your US citizenry and moving to a more social-based country. Our forefathers made provisions in our constitution for unhappy people to "pursue happiness" elsewhere.

reply to post by IAMIAM


No...your wrong. Patent laws take care of this. I'm not too familiar with them but in a nutshell, you, the inventor have exclusive rights for say twenty years and then it's public domain.

Now of course the modern use of this law has been perverted by cronyism and corruption.

Originally posted by Darkrunner
In some hippie utopia it would be nice if everyone worked for the betterment of humanity, but I think that's unrealistic. In the end, when all is said and done, people look out for themselves.

If you do not believe it is possible, then you are in the way or those going that way.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by IAMIAM
You describe being a slave, brag because as a good slave, you made it into the house, then rail against those who say to hell with being a slave.

With Love,

Your Brother

Racial slur aside, this is an unjustified statement. Slavery isn't what people say it is, it's forced. There's nothing forced about what they did as they could just as easily gone and lived in the middle of nowhere with some other folks and lived off the land and not used money.

You also don't know their intentions, all the while you seem to be calling personal property a lie.

Peace,
your friendly neighborhood atheist KJ

Originally posted by maestromason
The 1% has always carried the 99% in a Capitalist Society...simply put the Capitalist model was built around this premise.

Show me a pyramid where one percent of the stones carry the ninety nine percent...


With Love,

Your Brother

I don't believe in a wealth cap but I do believe a progressive taxation system. I think those that make 10 million or more per year should pay 40% income tax. This way lots of currency recirculates to the government and then to the people&corporations that truely need it.

If you make 100 million or more than it should be 50% income tax all the way up to the billionares and trillionares. The billionares and trillionares control the world, but luck trying to find out who they are and making them pay when they have their funds diversified in trust funds, hedge funds and undisclosed bank accounts in tax havens.

The way capitalism is setup, it is screwed beyond repair!

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
Racial slur aside, this is an unjustified statement. Slavery isn't what people say it is, it's forced. There's nothing forced about what they did as they could just as easily gone and lived in the middle of nowhere with some other folks and lived off the land and not used money.

It is not a racial slur, but rather a term which adequately defines the situation.

You say no one is forced, yet where are the alternatives? Do you really think there is some piece of land somewhere waiting for hippies to find it? Everything is already claimed, yet it belongs to NO ONE to claim.

Originally posted by KrazyJethroYou also don't know their intentions, all the while you seem to be calling personal property a lie.

Peace,
your friendly neighborhood atheist KJ

Personal property is a lie. Don't believe me now, but you will find how true it is when you are dead and no longer have the property you thought you owned.

With Love,

Your Brother