One person should only be so rich.

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by s12345

 

Hmm let's put your theory into another perspective, a hypothetical if you will...

You are an Olympic runner and are in the top 1%, you got to that 1% by training non stop every day since you can remember, you've sacrificed a lot to get where you are, to be the best you can be.

Now, someone decides that things need to be "fairer" for everyone, so a cap is put in place and you are not allowed to run faster than this cap.

You've sacrificed many things and spent a lifetime to be the best and now you're being told you can't go out there and be the best you can be because it's not "fair"

Does that sound right?

Would it be right to tell Usain Bolt that he can't go out and run under 10 seconds?

This is exactly what you are proposing by capping peoples wealth.

Put that way, it sounds like affirmative action for wealth.

So what is to happen to the rest of the money these rich people have? Redistribute it to the poor? Pass it onto those who are too lazy or don’t have the ambition to become successful? I hope you’re not serious. If a person works hard for their money, than they have every right to keep it.

reply to post by inven104u2


Okay, then build your own roads and bridges, and partake not of what everyone else has contributed to creating.

I don't want to support some lazy "free enterpriser" who hasn't lifted a shovel to help build a road, or pulled wire to provide electricity, or who demands the right to use a monetary system they did nothing to create.

I'd like to see a true free enterprise system that allows me to grow and sell whatever plants I can find a market for, that allows sex workers to ply their trade freely, but most "free enterprisers" don't actually believe in free enterprise, but rather a controlled system that favors them.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
I will never understand why people want so badly to have the government intrude into their lives more and more and take from them and put more and more restrictions on them......it seems absolutely against all logic one should have.

Are there people who truly do not want to be free and be in control of their lives? Are there people who truly love to be slaves and instead of being an individual wan to be an equal to everyone? I suppose so. But I am not one of them. I certainly dont raise my daughter that way. She is raised to know that it is BETTER to be unique and stand out rather than be part of the crowd...and not be equal to everyone else for not everyone is the same nor does everyone DESERVE to be treated equally.....it is BETTER to try your hardest to succeed and be the best you can be, rather than settle and be what others tell you to be....and place yourself on a level playing field so that you are just a mirror image of everyone else.

That is not the world I want to live in.

We have kids being raised in ultra liberal homes who are told that EVERYONE is a winner and equal! Be exactly like the person next to you for it is wrong to be a unique individual. Winning at sports? NO way! Everyone is a winner!! Get better grades than the person next to you? NO way! Everyone is equal! Live in a bigger and better house than your classmate? NO! Everyone deserves the same! Your daddy makes more money than my daddy? NO! Everyone makes the same salary even if your daddy is a lazy piece of crap!

Im sorry, if YOU want to live that way so be it. But do not even think about dictating what is best for me or how I should live! That is not gonna happen! If you want to place a cap on your salary and throw the rest away...so be it. But dont do it to mine! I work my ass off to get what I have and deserve. No cap shall be placed!

If I want to make a zillion trillion dollars and spend it all on myself, I should be allowed to and not have anyone tell me any different because they are...................................jealous.

Jealousy is the root of evil, not money.

edit on December 24th 2011 by greeneyedleo because: (no reason given)

Hear Hear!

I am all about this freedom my friend, and you are absolutely correct.

You should be able to make all the money you want to.

Equally however,

You should not whinge when your excess lifestyle brings the poor and destitute into your home to slit your throat and take what you have stolen and hoarded from the rest of the world.

Freedom, ah I love it!

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by Propulsion


I've already answered that question.

And no one works hard enough to be worth billions.

Some CEOs took home over $100 million this year. Are you saying they worked hard enough to actually earn over $2 million a week?

Seems a lot has happened since yesterday.

So many good replies,

Responses as a whole, no one in particular.....

I back a cap, but as part of a full system change.

1. Unless your a greedy Pig, to think you need to amass more than you can physically spend, is ludicrous, your playing a game of sport, if you have to be no 46 or Number 1 richest man in the world, thats not about life, surviving or living, that's GREED.., that this kind of ME ME ME ME Attitude, could never help the world. and in fact is why, there are tens of thousands dying each and every day around the globe from preventable deaths.

2. Giving money to charity is not in itself helping mankind in anyway. How much Charity Money actually see's it's end goal? IMO... Charities are designed to make the GREEDY feel better and the middle class feel like the rich are giving something..

3. Jealousy.
Yes.
Somewhat.
I AM JEALOUS
Because once the scales have been tilted this far to one side, it is almost impossible to get off the ground with an idea these days, without outside investment and sacrificing control.
Yes there are many operators who have made themselves wealthy with good business decisions, but essentially most of the "IDEAS" are backed by "BIG MONEY" and then taken and profited on by the GREEDY.

4. JUST BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE COMMUNISM, DOESN'T MEAN IT is!!
When the value of my labour makes more for my employer than it does for me, I'm a slave.
But a company (I work for) who exists for the benefit of the employee, employer, and country, then I'm a citizen.
I work for the better of my neighbor, and if that means we provide free health, welfare, dental, housing, unemployment for the benefit of others, how can you see this as theoretically outweighed by the few leeches of such a system. Are your business skills not up to the task of absorbing a few additional costs. In such a system, I bet it would not even be 1% of CURRENT Gross productivity lost to such leeching. We'd provably see an increase, just because you would be happy to leech, doesn't mean everyone feels that way.

Your attitudes of "oh poor pity me if a few get a freeride" (is that how you feel already about all the "KIDS" who got there money from there mummy and daddy. they got a free ride...)

So essentially you would have a similar argument against this new sytem, as we currently have for this current one......

You don't want a new world because You don't wanna share...
we say..
we want a new world because we think you should share...
Hmm who's greedy or misguided.

5. Poverty is not a choice. It's a collection of them. Most unrelated to the end outcome. To say a person is the entire cause of there own predicament, is for lack of a better world PLAIN DUMB. In a minority of cases a person may have chosen to be happy with a minimal lifestyle.
But usually a person doesn't choose to work 18hr days, with the kids at home alone, while they make less than minimum wage from company A down the road, who plays the Profit @ any cost game, and rips there employees off. That's not chosen, that's criminal, but because its for the sake of BUSINESS profit, it's condoned?


My conclusions, thus far.

If The people who already have wealth..... had to give it away for change..... it'll never happen.
If the Poor all got up at once and said we've had enough the rich would #. .... It'll never happen
Changing The System, needs balance, but as an entire system. A wealth cap is only an idea, and in being so, by itself... it will never happen.

Though... Unfortunately . . . .You cannot just look at a single aspect of a change.
A change is a multitude of difference which are hard to percieve from a standing reality.
To cap wealth explains nothing without the rest of the "Ideas" that would exist around it, without all the information, understanding and acceptence. . this is never likely to happen.

If you limit the amount of success or money a person or company can make what is the incentive to do better?

people will not aspire to reach for new heights unless there is a carrot there (power & money)

Good idea in theory but not good in the real world.

Originally posted by Unrealised
To me, Communism is the way of the future.

According to this site, Ignorance is frowned upon, but it is the prehistoric-like fear of Communism that, to me, is a blatant red-flag that people do not understand the true miracle that Communism could be for the World.

The biggest secret of economics is that Communism is a very powerful system.




Of course, in a sick and perverted system such as Imperialism, it is called, basically, The Devil.







Get educated and elect people who aren't in it for the money.

Yeah, the Chinese people are really loving that communist thing.

reply to post by s12345


I say that We get rid of the need for money entirely- by flooding the planet with free energy (money merely accounts for meaningful energy expended in an energy-scarce society and free energy would remove the necessity for it) by releasing electrogravitics from black ops where it has been for over 50 years - because the elite slavemasters know it would remove Their power over Others.

See My thread for more information: www.abovetopsecret.com...

No..If a person is WORKING HARD for THEIR money there should be no limit to how much they CAN/HAVE EARNED....

Originally posted by StarPeace
No..If a person is WORKING HARD for THERE money there should be no limit to how much they CAN/HAVE EARNED....

edit on 24-12-2011 by StarPeace because: (no reason given)

No one works hard for THEIR money.

Money is lent to them at INTEREST!!!!!!!


You are working for free and accumulating debt to a bank for them to provide you a means to exchange your labor for goods at a cost, ie the INTEREST.

Banks are the ones which make money off of creating money.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by s12345


All it does is encourage people to retire once they are rich, and invest privately through outsourcing and loopholes.

You complicate the problem, not solve it.

Technically I don't own a dollar to my name. Yet I can afford to eat, drink, sleep, and get educated wherever I please. Because "my" money is shared, and not mine. See this loop hole? I can claim I am poor. But I am most certainly not in reality.


The only solution is to find out who uses their money abusively and corruptibly, and arrest them and take their money. There really is no other solution.

I dont understand why working for what you have is such a problem... we havent tried true Capitalism is a very long time.

Originally posted by mwood
If you limit the amount of success or money a person or company can make what is the incentive to do better?

people will not aspire to reach for new heights unless there is a carrot there (power & money)

Good idea in theory but not good in the real world.

But is that only because this entire system is a reward based system.

If you implemented say from year 1 at school for the next 20years. And focused on an "alternative", would we still feel, that we need reward to work.

This idea is more than a little ridiculous. Even if there were some law that you weren't allowed to amass more than some arbitrary amount of wealth, people would just set up "trusts" and "foundations" to own the wealth, but put themselves in charge of them for the purpose of spending it. Just like they do now with taxes.

The income gap can't be solved by forcing the rich to become less rich. In the first place, they are rich and connected and therefore above any rules you think you can set up. Secondly, even if 99% of them are rich because they are dishonest (it's actually much lower than that), stealing the money from the 1% who are honest is morally incorrect and therefore, at least for me, a non-starter.

The problem with income disparity is a systemic one arising from the simple mathematical fact that low-skilled workers are simply not worth enough money for them to survive on. In the big economic equation, allowing them to wallow in poverty is a net gain over paying them more.

Technology advances and eliminates the need for these low-skilled workers. Naturally, the increasing productivity from technology is translated into profits - not into subsidies for people who are no longer necessary. Our mistake is not in allowing people to generate profits (this is unavoidable) but in failing to educate people whose skills are valueless.

We don't need to hand out free money to people who can't produce anything of value, we need to subsidize education and quit letting our schools fall to the bottom of every measure of achievement. Only by upgrading our workforce can we fix income disparity.

“Destiny….It’s not a matter of chance; it’s a matter of choice”.

I live here in Henderson Nevada. The unemployment rate is at 13.7%. I was laid off from a 13 year I.S. position that paid me close to 90k a year. I was laid off 7 months ago. For the first 2 months, I collected unemployment. Since then, I have worked miscellaneous temporary/part time jobs. Some of those employment opportunities included dishwashing and warehouse dock work. I am a single Father with 2 children. My ex-wife and I share equally the responsibilities of our children. Since I was laid off, I have had to give up my home and made a great many sacrifices. In all, I have learned to live to my means.

When I hear that people can’t find jobs out there, I just want to throw-up! The fact of the matter is that there are MANY employment opportunities! Just NOT the ones most of these dead beat lazy azzes are willing to do! I could have easily sucked unemployment dry! But I didn’t! I don’t even make a fraction of what I made! Not even close to what I made in unemployment! What happen to America working hard for anything? When I hear people whine about they’re unemployment running out after 2 years, I find myself embarrass! Embarrassed that my fellow American can’t do what’s right or true anymore! There is a difference in WANTING something, and there is a difference in NEEDING something! I have 2 children I love very much! It doesn’t matter to me how big my house is, the car I drive, shoes I ware, people I know, etc... As long as I can work hard for something, give my kids a warm safe happy place to live, food in their mouths, than I am happy!

If you have to be on unemployment for over 6 months, than I consider you a welfare sucking reciprocate! If you can’t step up in life, than move out to another country that will provide the world to you for free! I don’t care what kind of excuses people try to come up with to avoid work! It might not be what you wish, but the jobs are out there! You might not be making what you once made, but either way, its work! Have “a little” dignity! Do what’s right! Set an example for your children!

Instead of complaining here on ATS about how much money the rich have, maybe you should go out and create your own wealth for yourself. All I am seeing here is complete utter jealousy and laziness.

Everything is wrong that is for sure, Just because we as humans do not know better does not mean there is not a better way to do things. I help people because not of a materialistic object like money but because I can.

Originally posted by Unrealised
To me, Communism is the way of the future.

According to this site, Ignorance is frowned upon, but it is the prehistoric-like fear of Communism that, to me, is a blatant red-flag that people do not understand the true miracle that Communism could be for the World.

The biggest secret of economics is that Communism is a very powerful system.

I agree completely.

People will sarcastically point to Soviet Communism as irrefutable evidence that communism is impossible.

Little do they realize that Leninist/Stalinist/Maoist... communism are only interpretations of what is actually an extremely promising political theory.

Capitalism only works up to a point... and its becoming abundantly clear that the point has been reached. When the a true capitalist revolution does occur, it will be natural, and Communism will be looked to as an alternative.

20th century communism failed because "communism in one country" and "the communist revolution from above" goes against everything Carl Marx envisioned. It is not communism as it is supposed to be interpreted.

I think the sooner people realize that, the less susceptible they will be to this blind and unjustified fear of communist theory.

Originally posted by Propulsion
Yeah, the Chinese people are really loving that communist thing.

Originally posted by The Old American
I know!! I can't WAIT to stand in line for toilet paper!
Wave of the future. Yeah.
OP, why do you care how much a person has? Besides jealously, of course.
/TOA

case and point.

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


No, I believe the two share enough similarities to work.

Of course, there will be exceptions to the rules, but overall the majority of the super-rich are there because they are the best at what they do and weren't held back.

You restrict that, well it's just not human.

reply to post by IAMIAM


Although technically true, you'll find that most banks are placed in the same situation as us.

We want a house, we go to a bank and ask to loan the money, along with, say 99 others.

That bank then goes to another bank or a group of banks and asks them to loan some money for the 100 loans they have already committed to.

It goes up the chain and all is well...as long as you make your payments...but as we know, eventually the house of cards will fall.

The question is though, should 100% of blame be put on banks?

The people that knew they couldn't afford a mortgage but went and got one anyway, shouldn't some responsibility be placed on them and their decisions as well??

No one put a gun to their head to drop themselves up to their eyeballs in debt, right?