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Jesus' death was assisted suicide (Jesus didn't die for our sins)

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posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 10:10 AM
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reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


Another lost soul that is sitting in judgement of not only Christ and the plan for salvation but you are deciding the wisdom of the Creator of The Universe. I think you need to consider a day of rest. It would seem reasonable since you have covered 6 days of Creation in one post?????????

If I wasn't ready to puke I would explain but it wouldn't do any good with those who are consumed with hate If Im.wrong I am sorry but to say when someone dies a death like that and I could tell you more on that issue, to say they gave up nothing is the statement of an evil merciless dark soul.

Crucifixtion was the most brutal form of judgment for the purpose of exicution that could be endured. Btw it is possible to sweat drops of blood through tremendous fear and stress upon the circulatory system. He didnt give up anything? He was beaten with a whip that contained balls of lead at the endswith 1-3 inch razor sharp barbs. This would have obviously put him into shock and heavy blood loss. But he gave up nothing? The crown of thorns that was "Crushed" into his skull would have had thorns as hard as Cement and yes 3-4 inches in length that some of which no doubt pierced his skull and entered his brain. But He gave up nothing?.

They nailed him through the wrists so the the skin would not tear and release him. look at the structure of your wrists perfect place to be hung from if your a freaking animal who likes a small version of a railroad spike hammered through your wrist bones. No he gave up nothing. The death was slow and dehydration was guaranteed due to the fact that you suck air like a vacum cleaner because your positioned in a way that suffocates you.while your slowbleeding from the 6 inch triangle shaped nails that are now holding you to the stakethrough your feet.

The sun and no shade.get you real thirsty and this multiplied from blood loss from what must have been a back that looked like hamburger and arms to match from the lacerations earlier when they were getting him dressed in a robe to mock him, He gave up nothing?

Asked for a drink of water due to bloodloss and beating and head trama and it is common knowledge he was beaten in the face. so they give him a sponge of vinegar and im sure they rubbed it in his bleeding lips and face as a gesture of showing him he is giving up nothing. Hanging there deficating and urinating on himself as his mother and friends watched and no doubt prayed for it to end soon, while wondering how he could have been so powerfull with any miracle and yet chose to die like a pig. For doing NOTHING wrong.

Finally what became his "Death Blow" was the fact that they didn't like bodies hanging on the crucifixtion stakes when the sabbath came. The same rats that questioned and made fun of him. The religious freaks Youi know the ones that condem without care or concern. the other types that think they have done nothing and ignore the torture of the innocent while they teach the same lie that condems them to others.

They did what any person would want , they ran a spear through his side like throating a pig that has been head wounded but still kicking. He gave up nothing? Now as if this isnt enough , you say,



Jesus loses nothing in the story other than his mortal body, which for an immortal and, if you believe in the Trinity, all powerful being is absolutely meaningless. In order for Jesus to sacrifice anything he has to actually LOSE something. Even if you think it's God who is sacrificing his son God doesn't LOSE anything, Jesus returns to the right hand of the Father after his ascension.



The above statement seals you. Out of your belief you speak the very sentence that condems you.If you say His death means nothing and he looses nothing , then your death will mean nothing and you will loose nothing because you have already had all your gonna get. But you already know that, don't you ?

To him that loves little, the same little will be forgiven.

edit on 24-12-2011 by CherubBaby because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-12-2011 by CherubBaby because: typo

edit on 24-12-2011 by CherubBaby because: typo




posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by WarJohn
 


So soldiers who go into battle are committing suicide are they? What about someone who jumps in front of another to take a bullet? He only layed down his life temporarily.

There are so many falsehoods in your post its easy for even the skeptics to see that you clealry have a strong hatred of Christ, the redeemer of man kind. That's probably why you only got one star.



Don't believe false preachers like the one who wrote 1 Corinthians 15:2-4.


So the Apostle Paul is a false preacher?




What are you before entering the gate? You haven't life just yet. This life you have now is not genuinely life. Genuine life is in paradise (the kingdom of God).


We have a life now but its only temporary. Jesus give's us the chance of salvation (Eternal Life) if you should choose to accept his gift of forgiveness.



^Back then they knew not that they were apart of assisting Jesus' suicide. That's what.


Jesus' death was not suicide. Your interpretation of scripture is way off. What spirit is in you to be saying these things? It's certainly not the holy spirit thats for sure. Only a demonic spirit would say Jesus commit suicide... The trouble is when you read scripture with the attitude of a scoffer you will always see it different then how its meant to be read. That's why you should humble your self first so you can read things with an open mind. By reading your words its easy to see that you have a problem with pride.



The Gospel taught us that assisted suicide is how to bypass "Thou shall not kill" of those false ten commandments of the OT. The Gospel is a slick and clever tale told, with Jesus as the center of it.


Its quite incredible how you have managed to misinterpret the scriptures like this, you are way off. Furthurmore you have shown nothing that suggests Jesus' death was suicide. Furthermore suicide is actually a SIN so Jesus could not have commit Suicide because he was sinless. So that proves it.

Last but not least, a scripture showing Jesus was not murdered, before you try and say that next.

"No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." - John 10:18

Jesus knew death had no hold on Him and that it was His flesh that would die, not His Deity. He rose from the dead and was resurrected in a glorified transformed body. Not something a suicidal person prophesies for themselves and achieves. I think you are simply looking for justification for not being a Christian and go your own way. No offense intended but I think that's the truth from much of the things I see you write.
edit on 24-12-2011 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 10:35 AM
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Jesus died for those that believe in Him.
That apparently doesn't include the OP.



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by WarJohn
 

How hard do you have to work to be so ignorant. It is obvious you have not read the entire Bible with an open mind. It is a love story written by 40 authors over a 1500 year period yet is consistent and proves itself by the prophecies that have come true about the world and about Jesus.

One day you will stand before God and your knee will bow and your tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

"A fool knows in his heart that there is no God." Be content because you have lots of ignorant company. May He make your path straight.

God Bless you, Sir.

His



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 11:02 AM
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I think most people do not understand the True meaning of Sin.

I think most people do not understand the True meaning of the Gospel.

I also think most people have a Bad taste when so called "religion" is force crammed down ones spiritual throat.

I dont think most people understand that Christ was Just as Against organized religion as most of us today.

Lemme try to put this in Crayon writing for us to understand what the True Meaning of the Gospel.

1. Sin = Missing the Mark
2. Gospel = A simple way of saying you can not Sin anymore.

Its as Simple as that.

You see.. You have NO sin anymore ( IN your relationship to HIm/Her ..whatever ). He can see you through a Lens or sorts.

We Have NO sin .. ever .. past,present or future.

So ya .. if some Christian starts to spout off that your a bad sinner .. then he/she is NOT apart of the Gospel ..

Your "In like Flynn"

Nothing that you do here matters if your "trying".

You Can NOT ADD or Subtract what was already said/given. .. you can not do penance and secure your fate. Leave it to Faith that your already golden ( does not matter who you are or what you have done ).

Its when you Think/Told to do something else that your going to be screwed over.

Yes .. organized religion is poison .. some of us know this already ..

JG.



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 03:46 PM
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You are all supposedly sons and daughters of YHWH.

Gad, the Semitic deity of Fortune... the Hebrew pronunciation is "Gawd". And that's where the English word came from. When ole King James had money/power problems and created the new English word "God" 401 years ago and got his minions to pray to that deity to fix King James problems.

If Jesus is the son of Gad, he's the son of a Semitic deity of Fortune.

Not the creator of the heavens and Earth, YHWH. YOU are the son/daughter of YHWH.



edit on 24-12-2011 by Pervius because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by Pervius
 


Pervius I rarely do this but I want to give you and myself a great oppertunity. I will create a thread on the accuracy and reliability of scripture as well as the scientific accuracy of scripture. I invite you to debate me , one on one and when I am "Finished" with you I will take on the next contender. How about it? Pack a good lunch and make sure you have your search engines up to date because you are going to need them.

This isnt a good guy bad guy isshue . This all about showing people how little they know when they think they have it figured out. I was dealing with this 20 years ago and I am easially warmed up. Lets forget the chatter bring your best and plan on having to leave it for good..



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 05:06 PM
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Hold on Cherub,

There's a book by a famous writer everyone knows coming out in a couple months. Not only is he going to end up with a blockbuster book/movie deal.....

He's going to unravel the "G" of the Masons and pretty much end the Pope and the Holy See.

Just wait a few more months. He's almost done.



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 05:49 PM
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Jesus was killed to show the world there is life after death...


 



then why did his inner circle of disciples not even recognize him?

the self-acclaimed Jesus who assumed the Title of Annointed/Christ
allowed a 'doubting Thomas' to command his attention for a time... where-by the re-animated (but still unrecognized) Jesus exposed the 'wounds' to p[rove his earlier condition.


A resurrected 'God' would not have sported mortal wounds to 'prove' his former condition...Jesus had the power to present a I-MAX type of Screen and visual narrative to the upper-room band of nere-do-well followers that abandoned him in his hour of need... a 'need' in the task & effort to create a new religion or cult of believers.


to my senses, a Jesus would base his credentials on physics &/or scientific reality...not on symbolic faiths/beliefs or on mystical hopes & dreams... a resurrected body that was immune from natural death...even inflicted on him by 'bad' men & political/religious systems...absolutely solves nothing !

a poetic existence in a Hindu state-of-mind...is not a practical world option to get-ahead or to over-come obstacles created by less 'spiritual' people...
like the 2000 Years Ago Roman occupying forces or Pontius Pilate, or Herod, or the religious authorities in that era.

its a mesmerizing story, but has very little substance other than pie-in-the-sky stuff about 'Hope' & 'Change'... the very key-words of the Obama campaign of the 2008 election cycle


Jesus could have altered everyones DNA to eliminate the types of diseases that afflict generations of Innocents,
or any number of chromosone tweeks to rid the human condition of insanities/dwarfism/ schizos/terminally ill people... but NO he wasted his supposed 'Power' on ephemeral truths and figments of one's imagination rather than generating stem-cells in the population to cure old age or even addled minds/cancers/ etc


the Jesus cause is just so much fluff, imho



posted on Dec, 25 2011 @ 01:33 AM
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Jesus wasnt crucified, there was someone else on that cross.
All religious texts point out that people viewed the crucifiction from a distance.
The Qur'an says that there was another man to substitute for Jesus.



posted on Dec, 25 2011 @ 03:19 AM
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reply to post by WarJohn
 


Well in a way, yes, he did commit assisted suicide.

He saw the prophecies. He knew what would become of anyone who dared to fulfill them. It is not like it was secret.

He was MADE for that purpose, to fulfill prophecy.

Fulfillment of prophecy is the spirit of Christ for it is the keeping of God's will.

That is why he asked that the cup be taken from him, if it was in God's will.

That is why he stated, Father forgive them, they know not what they do.

The sin of man is doubting the existence of God and his law to love one another.

Thus, we have prophecy that once fulfilled, there is no question that God exists.

Unfortunately, man has a habit of deifying the messenger, and not heeding the message.

Which is why we still have prophecy to fulfill today.

No crucifixion this time around.

But one hell of an upset!

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Dec, 25 2011 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by Pervius
 


What do the Pope and Masons have to do with what I said. Your error of perception is obvious. I will say it this way. If your going to raise your hand and ask to be put in the game. Then be ready to make "Your Shot" . I will take on any comer including the "Block Buster " Author. I am not ashamed of what I say and I see you must know instinctively you are in over your head. I will be waiting..



posted on Dec, 25 2011 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by WarJohn
According to what exact scriptures did the Gospel imply Jesus died for our sins? I'll be waiting for the answers from you who hold that Jesus died for our sins.

If you haven't got an answer yet:

"He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world," 1 John 2:2.



posted on Dec, 25 2011 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by CherubBaby
 



but you are deciding the wisdom of the Creator of The Universe.


All I did was decide that the Bible is NOT the wisdom of the creator because it doesn't meet any of the requirements one would expect of a perfect God's perfect Word. Christians assert the Bible as the Word of God, are they not judging for themselves that the Bible IS in fact the Word of God? Or are they accepting it blindly without weighing the evidence or putting forth due skepticism?


with those who are consumed with hate


You're the only one here “ready to puke” so which of us is consumed with hate again? I put forth arguments critical of the Biblical story, none of them are consumed with hate, they're straight forward explanations of why the story makes no sense.


He was beaten with a whip that contained balls of lead at the endswith 1-3 inch razor sharp barbs.


Your entire paragraph is a great big appeal to emotion fallacy, the same sort applied in the film Passion of the Christ. No one is arguing that Christ didn't suffer on the Cross, merely that he never lost anything. A perfect being, by definition, is a COMPLETE being, so Christ cannot lose anything that cannot be replaced. A perfect, immortal being who after being killed soon returned to life and ascended to heaven to live forever. If Jesus was merely a man, and not divine, then he has my sympathies and my compassion, but if he was a God, than he lost nothing.


The sun and no shade.get you real thirsty and this multiplied from blood loss from what must have been a back that looked like hamburger and arms to match from the lacerations earlier when they were getting him dressed in a robe to mock him, He gave up nothing?


These appeals to emotions would work, IF Jesus was a mere human being. But remember that according to Christian beliefs he's divine, he is God. Also keep in mind that Christ CHOOSE THE CROSS as a method of execution. Remember that the entire plan to be sacrificed for the sins of the world was God's idea. God could have sent Jesus to die a painless death, or come up with a better plan. The fact that Christ suffered horribly on the Cross only makes my point BETTER. What loving Father figure sends his son to languish on a Cross, instead of coming up with a better plan? Why not just forgive the sins of all mankind without a sacrifice?

The Jesus plan fails to save the majority of humanity, which means it cannot be a plan invented by a perfect God. This is one of many reasons to reject the Bible, since it describes an incompetent evil God.

Remember when I said a perfect being is necessarily a COMPLETE being. If God permanently lost some part of himself forever, if he had actually SACRIFICED something, he wouldn't be God.


But you already know that, don't you ?


What I know is that your knee jerk reactionary post did nothing to defeat my arguments. Jesus lost nothing but his mortal life and even that he only lost for 3 days. He didn't even sacrifice his mortal human body since he came back in the SAME BODY and even let Thomas touch his wounds.



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by CherubBaby
reply to post by Pervius
 


What do the Pope and Masons have to do with what I said. Your error of perception is obvious. I will say it this way. If your going to raise your hand and ask to be put in the game. Then be ready to make "Your Shot" . I will take on any comer including the "Block Buster " Author. I am not ashamed of what I say and I see you must know instinctively you are in over your head. I will be waiting..


I would like to see you and Autowrench have debate that man knows more about the Bible than anybody I've met. There is the thread that's been ongoing for a week or two now where he has school just about everyone in what is really in the Bible or not. That would be a debate I would sit through.

Autowrench are you up for it?

I am not really into Christianity is too much blood too much gore and too much nonsense. I believe Autowrench said the name was Yahweh and the description is that of the Dragon if I am correct. Those who are believers I am cool with that but I have seen far too many times on here that the hard-core believers don't even know what's in the Bible.

Christianity to me it is a very intolerant bloodthirsty fear mongering religion where I've seen people say it's peace and love then show hate and disdain for each other. I am not saying everyone's like that but I have seen plenty of it. There are a lot of hypocritical Christians out there and some I would say they're just plain crazy.


Here's the link to the thread we've been talking on for a while.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I think the title is Jesus is not a knockoff of the pagan god or something like that.
edit on 26-12-2011 by Grimpachi because: add link



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 01:02 AM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 


I will answer you simply. You say below.




Christianity to me it is a very intolerant bloodthirsty fear mongering religion where I've seen people say it's peace and love then show hate and disdain for each other. I am not saying everyone's like that but I have seen plenty of it. There are a lot of hypocritical Christians out there and some I would say they're just plain crazy


My answer to you is simple. You are wrong. Nothing could be further from the truth and the only reason you speak the way you do is because you have no knowlege of Christianity. You are obviously mixing half truths and lies with what you have been told or read about.

I find it ironic though that when these errors of perception come forward, the question is never asked, "What is a Christian or Cristianity? by the ones that error on the saide of misconception..
edit on 26-12-2011 by CherubBaby because: typo



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 01:25 AM
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reply to post by CherubBaby
 


You say it's not bloodthirsty so you deny the Crusades. Do you call that a half truth? And yes I get my information from what I have read and from the brief time I went to church. The knowledge that hell is made a invention of man proves that it is fear mongering. I would like to see you debate Autowrench on this the man has read the Bible three or four times. The Crusades is just one example of the blood thirst that has been inspired by Christianity. How many people have been burned at the stake? How many have died because they were the wrong denomination of Christianity?

I have learned more things about the Bible the past two weeks than the entire time with the church. Things that church does not want you to know. My question to you is which God of the Bible do you worship? All of them one of them? You do know there are more than 10 in the Bible. So even if the Bible is true which I do not believe it is how do you know which God to worship because they all say worship me and only me.

I only participate in these discussions because I'm curious. For me I have decided learn about Buddhism the only religion or belief that a war is never been faught for.



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 01:29 AM
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. Here is a link to the gods and the Bible.

Holy Smoke

because I know you won't take my word for look them up for yourself.



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 01:36 AM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 


I have a much easier way to help you. Ask me direct questions about your direct concerns that keep you from accepting The Lord that bought you with Hid death and I will answer them for you. If you want a debate to re-enforce your disbelief, you dont need one ..



posted on Dec, 26 2011 @ 01:45 AM
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Originally posted by CherubBaby
reply to post by Grimpachi
 


I have a much easier way to help you. Ask me direct questions about your direct concerns that keep you from accepting The Lord that bought you with Hid death and I will answer them for you. If you want a debate to re-enforce your disbelief, you dont need one ..


I don't have any questions for you I was just correcting you when you said I had no knowledge on the subject. Also where you said that I was wrong about Christianity not being bloodthirsty or intolerant because we both know it is.

When you said you were willing to debate anyone I thought you meant it. I was just hoping you with debate Autowrench on the subject. I cannot speak for him but I would think he would be more than happy to show you the truth. What is funny about this is I was thinking this would help you but obviously you are confused on that.

Anyway have a Merry Christmas or winter solstice whatever you wish to call it. It makes you happy stick with it.




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