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Jesus' death was assisted suicide (Jesus didn't die for our sins)

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posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 03:49 PM
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Christianity tells us a great lie. That great lie is that Jesus died for our sins. What the Gospel did was teach us that there is nothing wrong with assisted suicide. Re-read the gospels again for the truth of the matter.

According to what exact scriptures did the Gospel imply Jesus died for our sins? I'll be waiting for the answers from you who hold that Jesus died for our sins.

Don't believe false preachers like the one who wrote 1 Corinthians 15:2-4. You didn't recieve what he claimed to have also recieved. Don't take what he claimed as your claim. That guy who wrote that didn't follow the scriptures genuinely to the T! According to scriptures Jesus went through with assisted suicide. It is right up in the reader's face. It tells you and me that the Gospel is instructing people to a righteous way into paradise (the kingdom of God). Check this out...


Matthew 7:13-15 (kjv)
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.


What are you before entering the gate? You haven't life just yet. This life you have now is not genuinely life. Genuine life is in paradise (the kingdom of God).


Luke 23:34
Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.


^Back then they knew not that they were apart of assisting Jesus' suicide. That's what.

The OT is B.S. Much of the NT is B.S. It's all about the Gospel where the tale of Jesus is at. The Gospel taught us that Jesus didn't break a single OT-based commandment, even though he could have because there is a lie behind the origin of the ten commandments. The Gospel taught us that assisted suicide is how to bypass "Thou shall not kill" of those false ten commandments of the OT. The Gospel is a slick and clever tale told, with Jesus as the center of it.

The Gospel tells us that Jesus did not kill himself, no, Jesus indirectly killed himself. Remember the guy he told to put his sword back up? Why would anyone go along with people that were looking for you so they can more than likely crucify you? Think! The indirect way to kill yourself is assisted suicide. I rest my case.




posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 03:53 PM
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It actually was a double that was killed on the cross that day, christ did not. I saw a great program the other night claiming this and that jesus actually killed someone when he was 7 years old. He found that he should use his "powers" for good instead of evil and began to heal and teach.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 03:54 PM
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Christianity tells us a great lie.


That was the best part of your whole post.
You lost me after this sentence though.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by WarJohn
The OT is B.S. Much of the NT is B.S.


Then why use "B.S." as your only reference or source for the material you base your thread on?


Catchy title, by the way.

Peace,
ILikeStars



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 04:07 PM
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The sacrifice was infinitely greater than merely dying while in spacetime. People sacrifice themselves all the time for their babies, for their spouse, for their county. But the Christ was the first to, with full knowledge, choose to never be inside the oneness with the Father like all of us can.

Instead He chose to be the Door, half at the "right hand of the Father", and half in spacetime. The sacrifice of self for all eternity to be the Door so all finites can pass through Him to be where He can never fully be. It was required for the Door to be a part of spacetime just as the door on your house must have a face that touches the outside world.

The Christ is the Cross between spacetime where we are now, and the Father where all can enter. All because of the Door having made the sacrifice to not have any domain to dwell in. But to instead be the transceiver, transcoder, transcriber between all that is finite and all that is Infinite.

No one else had the guts to take this on.
edit on 23-12-2011 by tkwasny because: typo fix



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 04:19 PM
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The power in the name of Jesus Christ is powerful and holy. Ponder on it, call upon His name and you will discover His infinite and good power. The power of the Holy Spirit confirms that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and personally, I have faith and hope that I will one day discover the whole truth, but for now, I feel incredibly blessed and fortunate to have been shown what I have.

Thank you God. Thank you Jesus. I know you have done so much for me, and my confession here is one of thankfulness and appreciation for you, and for always loving me, giving me another chance to be a better man, and lighting a path to peace and happiness.

Give credit where credit is due.

Peace always,

Golden



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by WarJohn
 


so those 2 quotes is what your basing your theory on which i might add in no way shape or form explain what you have stated. also he may have known what was to come but he died for his fate not because he was suicidal. anyhow if what you think makes you sleep better at night sleep well.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by WarJohn
 




The OT is B.S. Much of the NT is B.S. It's all about the Gospel where the tale of Jesus is at. The Gospel taught us that Jesus didn't break a single OT-based commandment, even though he could have because there is a lie behind the origin of the ten commandments. The Gospel taught us that assisted suicide is how to bypass "Thou shall not kill" of those false ten commandments of the OT. The Gospel is a slick and clever tale told, with Jesus as the center of it.

The Gospel tells us that Jesus did not kill himself, no, Jesus indirectly killed himself. Remember the guy he told to put his sword back up? Why would anyone go along with people that were looking for you so they can more than likely crucify you? Think! The indirect way to kill yourself is assisted suicide. I rest my case.


A sure sign that a person is headed down a road of untruth is to see the emotions evoked by the thought. You are particularizing a universal truth. The universal and integral parts of truth are easily recognized and accepted. By your use of particularization, you are reducing the overall truth to an aspect you construct apart from the rest. The sure sign you are headed down the wrong path is the bias that comes out against the universal truth. This has more to do with a bias against other aspects of the same truth than it does the truth itself.

We have a tendency to do this with truth. This is not a judgment on you, but a revelation of the path you are on. By embracing the bias rather than the truth, you are questioning the authenticity of truth itself. Clearness of perception is modified by pre-conceptions and prejudices already in the mind. Rid yourself of these and the truth will embrace you gladly. You will not need to walk to it. It walks to you. Truth evokes your own defensiveness to it if you are unequally yolked with what you observe from reality. Your pre-conceptions are false when this happens.

You might ask, "Why is what you are saying true over my perception?" The answer is simple. You have not provided a higher truth in place of what you are saying is false.

Jesus died on a cross in our place. We assist our own death by sin. What we do not master will master us. We are slaves to sin and death because we embrace bias against God. The fruit of knowledge is received as a gift or by suffering work to gain it. We fell in the garden and must work and toil for truth. The flaming sword is what protects the tree of life. The path to the tree requires that we pass the consuming fire of God back to our place of glory. When this happens, we receive the fruit as a gift. No taking is necessary. We are incapable of this on our own efforts. Why? We are finite and God is infinite. We see truth as a particularization instead of a universal perspective. This must be given to us. If we take it, it is required that a debt be paid in place of what was taken. If you smoke, you get cancer. The reward is taken and the debt is then paid. Jesus took on our ultimate debt to free us from the master of sin and death.

We see this by the Jubilee laws. Only a kinsman can redeem a slave from a master. Jesus had to come as man to do what we are incapable of doing. The debt for our sin was paid in multiples. Two negatives, when multiplied, create a positive. Our sin by Jesus death on the cross is victory. Why? God has the power over death and can give us life eternal as a gift. Truth comes from this example of love. Only by living in a fallen world can mankind learn sentience. Confucius says, "I hear and I forget. I see and I learn. I do and I understand." This is the way. Truth is philosophy. Life is overcoming chaos. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father unless they come to him through the one that was able to conquer the master of sin and death. Jesus received his new risen nature and body and leads the way for us to do the same. This is the universal truth of the matter.


edit on 23-12-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 10:04 PM
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reply to post by WarJohn
 

May I applaud your effort on this Opening Post? I know in the past I have been critical of your OPs which seemed to be minimal, but this one is much better, take a bow.

As an earlier poster pointed out, I do think it's strange that you're not allowing reference to anything but the Gospels. Jesus quoted the Old testament and I don't think He would have quoted B.S. to teach the people.


According to what exact scriptures did the Gospel imply Jesus died for our sins? I'll be waiting for the answers from you who hold that Jesus died for our sins.
So, this is the challenge? Well, since your looking for an implication, let's see what we can pile up.

She will give birth to a son and you must name him Jesus because he is the one who is to save his people from their sins." MT 1:21

It will be Passover, as you know, in two day's time, and the son of Man will be handed over to be crucified. MT 26:2

"Drink from this, all of you, for this is my blood, the blood of the Covenant, which will be poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins." MT 26:28
And finally, and I think this is conclusive evidence that Jesus did not commit suicide, assisted or otherwise:

Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.” Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Could you men not keep watch with me for one hour?” he asked Peter. “Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak.” He went away a second time and prayed, “My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.” When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy. So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing. MT 26:39-44
I don't know what more proof is needed that Jesus wasn't interested in dying, it wasn't suicide, and he was dying to save us from our sins. And this was just the first 26 chapters of the first Gospel.



posted on Dec, 23 2011 @ 10:58 PM
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If a soldier jumps on a grenade to save his unit, but loses his life in the process...is it suicide or sacrifice?

If a father sees his child in the highway, and rushes out and pushes the child out of the path of an oncoming vehicle, but loses his life in the process...is it suicide or sacrifice.

If a loving God sees mankind lost and doing terrible things that will send them to Hell, and in His fleshly personification offers his body up to die so that we will not have to die ...is it suicide or a sacrifice?

Of course, if you do not believe in God or Hell or Heaven or eternity... this discussion is moot. Please stop reading now.

However, if you do believe in God... and since the topic was suicide and dying for sins and not God's existence, then let's proceed.

Jesus is the New Testament and Christian version of the sacrificial lamb of the Passover in Judaism. Prior to Passover, the Lamb was washed and cleansed, it was not allowed to blemish itself by touching the ground, it was fed two days prior to Passover, and then it was offered up, and on the day prior to passover was sacrificed.

Note the events leading up to the crucixian. Jesus was washed with fine oils and perfumes, He was not allowed to blemish Himself walking on the ground...thus the Palm Sunday and His entry into Jerusalem... laying down a path of palms to cover His way into the city. then the Last Supper or Lord's Supper... He was fed and offered up... thyen on the day prior to Passover, He was sacrificed or crucified.

He allowed Himself to be arrested and suffered the terrible beatings, whippings, flagellations as a purification rite... such is seen in other cultures. Then He was offered up on the cross. With the quick approach of Passover at dusk, it was necessary to hasten His passing... Criucifixian by it's very nature is a tortuous death of humiliation that could last for not just days but weeks.

Due to being crucified, the arms are outstretched and does not allow the diaphram to move up and down... the lungs slowly fill with fluid. The legs can be used to push up and down allowing the diaphram to operate and manually pump air into and fluid out of the lungs. This is why the Romans typically broke the legs of victims of this torture.

With jesus, His lungs were filling up quickly from the severe beatings He suffered. He had lost a lot of blood. However, He died quickly... sometime that morning prior to passover, thus His legs did not need to be broken...

Before He died, Jesus cries out..." My God, My God, Why has thou forsaken me.?" Some say it was a cry of dispair and abandonment. It was actually a quote from the 22nd Psalm...just prior to the more famous 23rd psalm. Just as if I were to say "I'm dreaming of a white...?" you would know the next line, the entire song, think of a particular rendition you liked, and the context.

Likewise, Jesus quoted the 22nd Psalm to a crowd of Jews that would know this Psalm... calling out the first line..."My God, My God, Why hast thou forsaken me?" The rest of the Psalm would have played out in their minds... if you read it, you will see described the very scene of the crucifixian being played out before them. The crucifixian, the mocking, the gambling for His clothes, his legs going unbroken, the peircing of His hands...the Psalm was written in the time of David and described a form of torture that did not exist for another 800 years.

The peircing of his side by the legionaire and the fluid pouring out of the wound is in line with known medical knowledge and in line with the injuries sustained.... as described in Luke.

Now going back to the point, if Jesus was giving His physical life freely with the idea that by doing so, all of man would not have to die spiritually... is that suicide or sacrifice?

If He took the role of a sacrificial lamb as used in the Passover, so that the "angel of death" could not take life from us... is that suicide or sacrifice?

Lastly, if you look at the instructions of God, by way of Moses, to the Hebrews after killing the Lamb of sacrifice... they were to take the blood.. and brush it to the left of the doorway, then to the right of the doorway, and then above the doorway... now do that with your hand...to the left, then to the right, and then above... you just made a crucifix...again, prophesying and symbolizing the sacrifice lamb, Jesus, and the use of the blood..of the Lamb and of Christ, to defeat death.

And then Jesus Christ arose....Amen.



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 12:05 AM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 



A sure sign that a person is headed down a road of untruth is to see the emotions evoked by the thought.


Ed, what do you mean here? Do you mean if I have thoughts, which I do, and these thoughts cause emotional responses in me, which happens, that this is untruth? If that were true I would never make a dime, eat a good meal, or get laid. Can you please clarify?



We see this by the Jubilee laws. Only a kinsman can redeem a slave from a master.


I agree. I see you know the Jubilees. As a kinsman, I can release a slave from bondage under a master. I do this with knowledge, and with showing truths about the matter. That does not mean the slave will ever let go of their Lord, oh, excuse me, I mean, "Master," and truly be free. It is a personal choice as to one's life path, it should not be chosen by another, nor even influenced by another. One should not be deterred from their life path.
Care to comment?



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 12:11 AM
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reply to post by AlreadyGone
 



If a soldier jumps on a grenade to save his unit, but loses his life in the process...is it suicide or sacrifice?


Come on, AlreadyGone, you know it is a sacrifice, a true selfless act.
Guaranteed Great Afterlife for that one. Same goes for the Father who give all to push the child away from death.
Many good men have done just that too, given the ultimate price for his or her buddies/friends/children/parents.



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 01:23 AM
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reply to post by WarJohn
 


You know, I am somewhat "Amazed" at your courage. I mean that. I don't think that even you know how brave you must be. Of course thats my opinion and only mine. I will come back to that later. What's more important is helping you see the error you have committed and the shame you bring upon yourself through a very inaccurate and poorly understood attempt at presenting what you call lies about Jesus in The Scriptures.

There is only shame in being destitute, when it comes to knowledge in a Holy Subject such as this one,because
in doing so you automatically become what you accuse. Simply put, you alone are in fact "The Liar" Your attack leaves no room for mitigation. Having attacked the Diety of Heaven itself and you do so willfully on the celebration of His Birth. To what purpose do you premeditate such a thing and time it as you do?
With your own folly you in a sense assist your own "Spiritual Suicide."

But there is hope. The reason there is hope is simple. Jesus died not only for the sins of those that love him. He died for the sins of those that will always hate Him and the truth.


Christianity tells us a great lie. That great lie is that Jesus died for our sins. What the Gospel did was teach us that there is nothing wrong with assisted suicide. Re-read the gospels again for the truth of the matter.


Then as if you have the ability to instruct others, you request that "We" go on a reading assignment that you give no points or marks of what would be ridiculous anyway to anyone who has read and prayed over Gods' Word !
Then you expect "Those" to return like having been on an Easter Egg Hunt to report back for further Instructions. and Opinions. When to entertain or obey such things will Iconically Re- Crucify Our Beloved Savior.


According to what exact scriptures did the Gospel imply Jesus died for our sins? I'll be waiting for the answers from you who hold that Jesus died for our sins.


I would no sooner get into a debate with someone that has no interest in the truth of what they are dealing with. Any sooner than I would beieve such emptiness and loss of joy.

I also won't pollute the time by even addressing the rest of this mess.. I will give a quick reminder that I too think of and should think of . This thread is proof of it below ,, I will put it in plain easy to uderstand English.

By your words you are justified. By your words you are condemed.

There is always something to give thanks for. I am thankful I am not spiritually in the condition of this thread
edit on 24-12-2011 by CherubBaby because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 01:34 AM
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reply to post by AllUrChips
 


What a pathetic state this world is in. It is no wonder things must be destroyed . It is bad enough to live in a coma spiritually but to instruct and make fun of the very being that will save or let you go is the ultimate act of foolishness. Merry Christmas.



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 01:57 AM
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reply to post by WarJohn
 





Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.


Words that pass the test of time.
Applicable to the OP, in my opinion.



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 02:07 AM
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reply to post by WarJohn
 


Sounds like you made this thread as an attempt to rationalise your hate by expressing your opinion as if it were
the truth. When your opinion is the only BS you should worry about. See hate comes from fear. It's obvious that hate drove you to write this thread. You need to face your fears. You should start with authority.

God has authority over all his creation. You obviously refuse to understand God. See it his way. Well you and all those who oppose his authority now, will be broken by it later. God is love and the most undeserving of all the hate. I love life, how can I or you not love the one who gave me life ?
edit on 24-12-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 02:39 AM
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reply to post by WarJohn
 


Jesus was killed to show the world there is life after death...

THAT is how much God loves us... He sent his son to show us the path, and ultimately die to show us life still exists beyond death... And the best way to prove to God that we are his children, is to love our brothers.

He didn't commit suicide, he was killed because his own followers would not fight for his beliefs...

which were of God.

Your sins are your own... Jesus is not a scape Goat.

He is the path...




posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 07:34 AM
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reply to post by autowrench
 




Ed, what do you mean here? Do you mean if I have thoughts, which I do, and these thoughts cause emotional responses in me, which happens, that this is untruth? If that were true I would never make a dime, eat a good meal, or get laid. Can you please clarify?


The OP started with a premise that Christianity is based on a lie. He produced this conclusion by particularizing a universal truth from a weak foundation of bias. This was evident from his argument and not from a strong foundation of truth. Bias is always a sign of fear. Fear is always a sure sign of lacking. Truth fills. The two are never coexistent. Truth can be recognized by its fruit.



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 07:44 AM
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:shk: Oh for the love of Pete! Jesus death was not assisted suicide.

- People who commit suicide are glad to commit suicide and be done with this life because of some heavy burden. When Christ was in the Garden he was praying and praying for the cup to pass him by ... for the suffering and death which were coming to pass him by if it were God's Will. He sweat blood because He was scared of what was coming and He knew it was going to be difficult to die that way. He didn't initiate it. He prayed to get out of it if possible.

- No one is going to commit suicide by torture. He was whipped and beaten and spat on unmercifully. He was embarrassed in front of His mother and friends and the entire town. And then hung on a cross to bleed to death and suffocate. People who commit suicide want it done quickly and without pain if possible. This was just the opposite .. long and drawn out and pain beyond imagination - pain both spiritual and physical.

That's NOT suicide. That's torture and murder.



posted on Dec, 24 2011 @ 08:05 AM
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reply to post by WarJohn
 


Actually there's a few better reasons why Jesus death counts for nothing. In actuality though Jesus death isn't assisted suicide, it's actually God's will, it is God who kills Jesus. God comes up with the plan after all, to send Jesus to die for the sins of mankind as the ultimate sin offering, which goes back to Abraham's sacrifice of Isaac.

You see in Christian doctrine the wages of sin is death, if you sin you are deserving of death, this is why most sins carry the penalty of being stoned to death in Mosaic law. Other more "minor" sins require a sacrificial animal be slaughtered, this animal takes the place of a human the way the animal that Abraham slaughtered took the place of his son.

So with the Jesus story God is offering his son the way Isaac was offered by Abraham. My issue with this, however, is that Jesus doesn't actually sacrifice anything in the story. He's immortal and he proves this by returning to life after only three days. Jesus loses nothing in the story other than his mortal body, which for an immortal and, if you believe in the Trinity, all powerful being is absolutely meaningless. In order for Jesus to sacrifice anything he has to actually LOSE something. Even if you think it's God who is sacrificing his son God doesn't LOSE anything, Jesus returns to the right hand of the Father after his ascension.

The other reason why Jesus didn't die for your sins is that dying for your sins doesn't make any sense. Christians who accept Christ can still sin and, unless you believe in a once saved always saved policy, can still go to Hell. Accepting Christ doesn't stop you from sinning, you still have to make a choice to do the right thing whether you're a Christian or not. Has Jesus' died for the sins of the world EVERYONE would be forgiven no matter what, not just people willing to believe. This means that God knew the vast majority of the world would end up in Hell, which means if his plan was to save as many people as possible he failed utterly.

If God is a failure he can't be perfect, even if his failure is caused by the actions or inaction of humanity. There is no way that human free will could override the perfection of God to turn him into a failure and people who use the free will defense are blissfully unaware of that fact.

None of the things that Christians tout as things Jesus saves people from make any sense.

Jesus saves from Hell - but Revelation clearly states that most humans are going to end up there, so Jesus fails.

Jesus saves from sin- but people can still sin, Catholic Priests molest kids while professing Christ openly.

Jesus saves from death - how many graveyards are crammed full of tombstones with scripture on them? Christians die like the rest of us.

Jesus saves from addiction - No. People manage to put forth the effort to break addictions themselves, this can be proved by the fact that non-Christians overcome addictions.

Jesus saves from Satan - But what is never specified is what Satan is threatening you with. The God of the Bible is threatening you with ETERNAL TORTURE while the worst Satan can do is increase your chances of being tortured eternally by God... So who's the bad guy in the story again?

Lastly, and most baffling to me, is God's insatiable blood lust. Is there a good reason why he can't forgive sin WITHOUT the spilling of blood? And Christians have the gall to accuse pagan religions of being unclean and unholy when their own scripture condones human sacrifice, genocide (if ordered by God) and specifies where to sprinkle animal blood on the altar to Yahweh.

Under the slightest critical though Christianity tears itself to pieces.



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