Confessions of a confused member

reply to post by Before2017Victor

Thanks to those who replied so far!

You're welcome...and to the guy who said no one cares blah blah blah....WRONG. I have made some great friends here, who have shown they DO care. Not everyone is jaded and cynical (no offense or reference to the member with that name, who I like BTW!:lol

After i first joined here i had to take a 2 year hiatus,

I break it down like this. Conspiracy theories should not be believed just because someone makes a grand claim. The thing about big claims is that you need evidence to back these claims up.

However if direct observation that leads to the accurate outcome of the initial prediction comes to pass or looks like it is coming to pass then one must evaluate the nature of reality one is living in.

Essentially this.

The government is either working for the people or against the people.

Not obviously its not as clear cut as that as there are lots of gray in between, BUT essentially most CT's believe we are being screwed by the government.

Here is where being on ATS can be a bad thing. If indeed one follows this line of reasoning and takes this stance we are being herded into ever more restricted slavery then one must also assume the level of control is deep. Given the fact TPTB are usually 3 moves ahead of the common pleb its logical to assume (if they are indeed at the top looking down) that they set events into motion having a pretty good idea what the outcome may be. The problem lies in the chaos theory that no matter how advanced a system is there are still variable that cant be accounted for yet. AND THAT IS OUR ONLY HOPE.

They dont have complete control over us, not yet but they are trying. The problem is how far down the rabbit hole do you want to go? The problem with logical reasoning is that one assumes the people in charge are using the same logic as the person making the inquiry to begin with. this is where most skeptics fall short.

People that dont believe that TPTB would intentionally murder, poison and start wars just for the sake of money are projecting their sense of morals and values on to the leaders of men. Granted the same argument can be said about the CT's but i say this.


Stop and think about first the nature of these leaders of men. They are NOT paragons of light and justice. They are NOT selfless and altruistic men and women who sacrifice for the betterment of the people they have been elected to lead(lol yeah right elected).

No these people are Ex accountants Lawyers and CEO's of multimillion dollar companies. They are open and bare faced liars and thieves. Its almost a running joke that Politicians always lie about campaign promises. We the morons of the world acknowledge this and STILL continue to support them. We KNOW they lie and still we do nothing about it.

So no, we are not being led by beacons of honesty truth and justice. Dont get me wrong there might well be leaders who actually do care about their people. But when the mass media which is controlled by the power elite control the flow of information up is down and left is right. The leaders who dont follow the company line get touted as dictators and they are forcefully removed from power by the elite that want to maintain control over the planet. Cant have a bunch of rebels showing the world how its done.

So in closing your confusion is understandable but let me say this running and hiding wont save you. There is a darkness coming and you can face it like a man or you can hide in the dark like a coward. Both choices are valid and neither is right or wrong from an individual perspective.

Me personally i dont care either way. Im just here for the show.

i think some OPs you have to answer from your heart and gut response, without reading everyone else's response. so here I go.
I know what you mean as well. I am almost fifty years old, have been married and raised a child. having said that. I lived the majority of my life getting glimpses, flashes, of a "reality" that would be hard to accept and keep waking up in the morning and getting out of bed, much less raising a child in a world that those glimpses would have defined....
Unfortunately, the older i have gotten, the more those "glimpses" have taken on a real shape as to what I see in relation to what is "real" and where we are and what we live in. Much of this is experientially defined, and while i rejected it, so I could go on for my child and those around me, I find it increasingly harder to reject, until one day it was just impossible to do anything but to see it as truth.
There are many, many possible conspiracies. However, the way I have come to see it, is there is an umbrella of conspiratorial reality in which some of the players, if you will, know the truth, and play the game with the rest of us....and who the rest of us are is ethereal in nature, ambiguous, at best, for the best conspiracy is for those not in the know to not know who the players are---so they can continue to play that game with us. The hidden hand comes to mind. If you have not read this, and know about what they call the right hand path and the left hand path, you might read something about this, as it is quite enlightening, and I don't mean new age enlightened, I'm coming alive with all my senses and DNA. Dont mean to sound cynical, but I'm afraid I believe that is just another way of sucking in those of us dissatisfied and frustrated,
Under that umbrella, are many different aspects of the same conspiracy, the same game.
Yes. I am afraid it is very real.
Along that spiral of belief, then you will try to find true meaning,some assurance that our time here, and being alive isn't wasted or meaningless. And so then, you will turn to many different religious views, looking for that assurance. Your search will inevitably take you to religions or belief systems less "religionized," if you will, therefore less politicized, or used as control mechanisms, and you will arrive usually at Zen or Buddhism. Then, if you've lived in our indoctrinated Christian lifestyle, you will seek a middle ground, which may be Gnosticism.
Then you will seek out knowledge of timelines and physics, and may soon realize the "time con" and begin to wonder if "history," itself, and those spelled out belief systems I referred to above are accurate, and what I mean by that, is, "hmmmm, what really happened, and does anyone here now actually know, or could it all have been suspended and rewritten to suit this current stream of events and eventualities."
This is what we call the rabbit hole. How far do you want to go down it. How much knowledge can you take before you are peaking out of your windows, wondering about your neibhors, your computer, the wiring in your house, the water you drink....etc. And what the hell can you do about any of it anyway.
The thing to remember about the supposed stupidity of your leaders and wondering if they can sustain such an intricate plot, is the plot is defined by its opposites. It is what provides the constantly needed plausible deniability, what defrays every conspiracy so that it becomes nothing more than the conjecture of crazy, paranoid people.
People who release valid information routinely do something inane and stupid afterwards, so that they look unreliable. That is standard.
That's all I will say. Discernment is key. And understanding that many do not even know what they represent or how they even play into the picture.
All the while we are told we must accept responsibility personally to have freedom, the reality is we have no choice, really, no control, really. Getting us, under those circumstances to accept personal responsibility, is only a way to suck us into a predetermined system of morals, dogma, legality, and problem, cause, solution situation which is all contrived.....
take care of yourself knowing all of the above, be as healthy as you can, and look out for those you love. It is all you can do.
Merry Christmas, pagan holiday, celebration of Satan or Santa or whatever, I choose to give when I can to those whom I care about, and say the same to you.

Great last two posts again. Thanks for spending the time to sit and reason with me.
Government seems to be a running theme, eh? Lol I say that because conspiracy theories as you know have a large range from showbiz to you name it.

Some of it is public knowledge of "politicans lie" and we take it. Yea, that's more tangable for me as opposed to "they're sending frequencies through the air that scramble your brain".

At some point you do have to bring it to "Laymens terms". I want to be able to talk to friends and family about things like this, but it has to be something we can all go "oh, yea I don't like that too". Not something that's way out there.
I don't like to say it like that, but it's true. If it's not something you'd feel comfortable saying in real life face-to-face with someone why go around posting it online?

For the most part people in my life agree that they are unhappy with aspects of the government.
Also, many other issues bother them as well.
Goodness there's so many causes and world issues and social issues that we should consider!

It's just a weird thing. Like when I sit to watch a nation news channel and they report on an event in someone's life. I am not sitting there denying the story and saying "this is a conspiracy" like...it is what it is. It's a fact about someone's life. Not all stories happen to be conspiracies. It can't all be a complete "show" and distraction.
"There may be snow tomorrow"

reply to post by Before2017Victor


Friend, you just stated everything I feel. Thank you!

I too, struggle with wanting to dig into something, but then holding all this information and then saying, "what now?" There's nothing next. Where's the end? Who's holding up the pinata? It's so damn confusing, it can't possibly be true, but then things come out, and suddenly, I feel like it MUST be true. If it's true, I have no recourse. Who am I against all these huge, faceless entities? I'm a single ant to the dinosaur. Then what??

I just want to know why the hell I'm here, because I'm not enjoying this life much. I go up and down, between saying all the right things, but not feeling them, or feeling all the right things and not saying them. People talk so much about what they know...enlightenment, "in the moment", and all this good-feeling stuff, but to be honest, I've never felt one single iota of it. I've tried. Believe me, I've tried. I'm starting to feel like everyone is full of crap, and they're all just pretending not to be to keep from feeling what I feel. The one time I DID feel some strange and amazing things, it was not the result of some meditation....it was the result of a diet change, a parasite purge, and something else that was alchemically related. (I've been interested in alchemy for many years now as well, but even that is full of a bunch egomaniacs, looking to make a buck. It's hard to find truth in that as well.)

Just once, I want something real. Give me something real that I can believe in that helps me understand what all this is about. If there are "angels" out there and God can see this, I'm tired of the confusion...hell, I'm just tired. Help me out, please.

Originally posted by Gseven
reply to post by Before2017Victor

 

Friend, you just stated everything I feel. Thank you!

I too, struggle with wanting to dig into something, but then holding all this information and then saying, "what now?" There's nothing next. Where's the end? Who's holding up the pinata? It's so damn confusing, it can't possibly be true, but then things come out, and suddenly, I feel like it MUST be true. If it's true, I have no recourse. Who am I against all these huge, faceless entities? I'm a single ant to the dinosaur. Then what??

I just want to know why the hell I'm here, because I'm not enjoying this life much. I go up and down, between saying all the right things, but not feeling them, or feeling all the right things and not saying them. People talk so much about what they know...enlightenment, "in the moment", and all this good-feeling stuff, but to be honest, I've never felt one single iota of it. I've tried. Believe me, I've tried. I'm starting to feel like everyone is full of crap, and they're all just pretending not to be to keep from feeling what I feel. The one time I DID feel some strange and amazing things, it was not the result of some meditation....it was the result of a diet change, a parasite purge, and something else that was alchemically related. (I've been interested in alchemy for many years now as well, but even that is full of a bunch egomaniacs, looking to make a buck. It's hard to find truth in that as well.)

Just once, I want something real. Give me something real that I can believe in that helps me understand what all this is about. If there are "angels" out there and God can see this, I'm tired of the confusion...hell, I'm just tired. Help me out, please.

Oh my, I hear you friend! Loud and clear! This is exactly it!

You're treading water, and it's exhausting.

Some people settle with the answers they grew up with, and others seem to find something that works for them.
I am not sure on many, many things.

And yea this "new age" spiritual jargon is not really that helpful. To me all the self help books and what have you say the same basic things. "be positive", "just do it", "eat healthy and excersise, moderation", "slow down every now and then" and blah blah blah
We already know the answers. We just need to be reminded on the stuff sometimes...paying for a reminder....
or their programs/plans. Whatever a lot of it is junk city.

I don't enjoy life much either. However, I find when I stop asking big philisophical questions it can become more barable again.
To constantly ask "what's the point?" makes life really sad for there isn't quite an answer.
And in an evergrowing population one can feel insignificant, purposeless and very small.

I am with you. I am completely lost.

Even getting education is frustrating for me at this point in life cause I question the honesty and sources and wonder "what do we know?". Is there absolute truth? Aren't there other ways of doing it?
And blaaah Idk.

In many ways for me, this "not knowing" has interfered with my life which is another reason why I started this thread to begin with.

I am just a silly ape being running around and I don't know what to think...

Originally posted by NowanKenubi

“Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.” – Winston Churchill

We all want to unknow at some point. Be strong, and don't give in to paranoia.

Yes, don't get too exited about ALL stuff you're reading about here - keep your mind open, but not clouded by any other crap!

When Important stuff happens - then I am sure that some ATS member around the world will pick it up and go with it further!

And please stay sane! LOL!

reply to post by ANOK


I put the root of the problem in two things (that now are the same), money (whatever form, including salt, pig tusks and shells) and intangible wealth (virtual value). From that point all has gone to hell...

Heck I would even welcome capitalism in a society that only dealt with direct trade...

reply to post by Before2017Victor


I think it's not one or the other. Congratulations on coming back to a place more grounded. But you don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater. That is to say, power corrupts. But, at the same time, nobody has absolute power. What kind of corruption by who? A lot of the time when you see what looks like bumbling, it's bumbling. Sometimes it's not. It seems like you have the kind of common sense necessary to pick apart what is nonsense and what is a real concern.

What can we do about it? Well, take me for example. I believe that the nuke lobby is highly corrupt at the top and too powerful for its own good. There are concrete steps I can take that are within my power to try to fight their corruption and limit their power. These steps are humdrum and in the realm of the everyday person, not of the scifi novel. But I believe the corruption I see is real and I take steps to try to address that. This is different than most of my friends, family and colleagues, who don't want to have to think about politics and the world's problems. As a responsible citizen though, I feel it is my duty.

You can be a more responsible citizen than those around you who just want to have fun or think about only themselves or their little niche in the world. This doesn't require belittling them for their decision not to expend energy for a wider cause - that's their choice. Most people just can't face the negativity of certain sad truths, and can deny like there's no tomorrow - it's kind of amazing to see. That doesn't mean the only alternative is diving into everything that might have an ugly truth to it, and blowing things up to be some kind of steampunk fantasty world where some all-powerful evil has won and you need to defend yourself by storing as many cans of beans as you can....

You seem like you are both open-minded (having considered a variety of conspiracy theories) and a critical thinker (have considered also where they fall short, and what viewpoints that you value but you are disconnecting from if you jump in headlong into conspira-world). I have every confidence that you'll find the right balance in being both aware and in tune with friends and family. Just keep in mind, your view does not have to overlap with anyone else's perfectly, but as long as you share some aspects of the way you see the world, and focus on those things you have in common when together, you will always have close connections with people who are important to you.

PS I enjoy life a lot, and I think it is important that in the balance you find, you can too. If/when find yourself feeling too dark and gloomy from some things you've read (and let's face it, there's a lot of depressing news out there), make sure to balance it out with something that cheers you up again. Personally I like doing things that make me laugh, really laugh. Time spent with friends is best for this. Don't let yourself get overwhelmed.

Happy holidays! Don't forget to do something fun today

I am so lost and confused.

*bump

Second line

I think conspiracy is a good way to learn...

I think they should even teach it as a method of thinking in schools...

The trick is not to stop questioning things.. but to question things even more...
If conpiracies about shadowy elites start to seem foolish that is because you are outgrowing these conspiracies mentally...

At the end of the day all you have to work with...... are facts and theories..
Check up on the facts.. And keep evolving the theories...

In my real life day-to-day interactions a lot of people seem to reject conspiracy theories.

For example, George Bush being seen as a dummy...yet at the same time being able to pull off an elaborate plot doesn't fit.

It's the "how far down the rabbit hole do you want to go?"

I am not going to sit here and say my friends and aquaintances are just ignorant or stupid...

But, some people just don't go there because there is reason to say that it's "balogne".

Again I've reached a point where I cannot accept that ALL conspiracy theories as presented in Jesse Ventura's show (for example) are going on at the same time. I don't see how that is possible.

Conspiracy theorizing seems to be an activity...similar to philosophizing... sure it could be pleasurable or enjoyable for some and possibly good for the mind...but it is a slippery-slope.
Where does that lead a person?

Are you getting any closer to truth? Are you reaching a betterment of the self? Does it increase your quality of life in any way?

Also, what is one supposed to do with conspiracy information? "John Doe" down the street...what is he supposed to do? Write a letter?

It's also curious to me that a lot of conspiracy theories originate in America...

It's interesting is all. I am not saying that to be rude or offensive. It's just what it appears to be.

I remember a couple years ago when I was really "into" this site and conspiracy mentality...I was really in it and I believed a lot of it. But, coming out again on the other side...
I just cannot see human beings capable of such cold, calculated behaviour. I really can't.
I won't see it that way because it dehumanizes our leaders. You don't know them...you don't know where they came from. There's always a way to bring humanity back into it. Does that make sense?

It can be very confusing.

I have to have the humility to say "I don't know" at some point. I only watch most of this from afar.
The other thing is that in my life right now I can only think that I am quite lucky to be where I am.

I have so much opportunity...and basic necessities are out there to be met.

I don't always feel duped. It seems quite clear what it is.
Maybe I am only taking things at face-value...and I know that conspiracy theorists rejects anything at face-value...which can also lead to paranoia...

Hmmm

Honestly, I am not closer to any answers than when I began here.

Are you?

*bump*

Please, anyone... no one has anything to say to that?

I don't know...

I know I probably look like an idiot at this point of making all these replies.

But, I would like some responses if it isn't too much trouble.

Dude all your friends and family are in on it. You are the only one thats not playing the game lol.

^ are you being facetious?

I am not quite sure what you're getting at. Lol

reply to post by Before2017Victor


Its not that people are stupid, its they just don't know. If you really think about it, you can't hold office unless your in somebody's pocket. The system has been set up that way from the beginning. Its a two party dominant system for a reason. There is two main parties, and you are forced to pick the lesser of two evils, that is on purpose. But people deny this, because of like you said, "to take a break" "not believing they're so calculating and cold". Certainly not every conspiracy theory is right. But there are those that hold some real truth, that people don't take into account. Look up "motivated reasoning" read up on that, it shows how even our smartest critically thinking americans can overlook facts. I see the potential for our world to be a much better place, and thats what I think we all want to push for. The elites, however don't want that. They enjoy their power and control. Just look back into history to see all the power holders fight to the end for their power.

Its not wrong to just sit back awhile and just live life, ultimately that's what we all have to do. But when others threaten that freedom, the only thing you can do is fight it. The worst case scenario, would mean that it is too late to fight back, which is a very real possibility. So are the conspiracy theorists saying they're smarter than you and all the sheeple? Well you can certainly take it that way, but that has more to do with you, than them. I urge you to look up "motivated reasoning" and read some articles on it. Thats what most people are suffering from, and it really goes to show you how powerful the media can be. When the people who are effectively running the world, are also running the media, we really don't stand a chance, unless we realize as a collective race of human beings that just because it is on tv, doesn't mean it is real.

reply to post by Before2017Victor


Thats because george bush was a dummy. The people you see on tv are just the "show men". They look pretty and smile on tv, but they're always getting direction from someone else.